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Author Topic: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases  (Read 9983 times)

verysimplejason

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 05:47:14 AM »
Well, that's how it is...  If there's any relief, I still got better pictures than my friend with 60D and 5D3.  I don't know what's your problem with it but if it can't serve your purpose then you have bought the wrong equipment.  You can't criticize something whose characteristics you know already before even buying it.

There's fundamental difference between you and me, and maybe also a difference between other CR members...

... of course I can criticize something I own and decided it's within my budget which will mean if has some flaws. I don't just stop pointing out the flaws just because I decided I can make do with it and work around the problems (with the help of constructive threads like this to find workarounds, not praise or bash the af system or each other for that matter).

Because if I wouldn't where would we end up - other people say you cannot criticize something you *don't* own because you don't have the proper experience. So if I cannot criticize something I own nor something I don't own, should apply for a job in Canon marketing :-> ?

6D's flaws are well known even before you started this thread.  Right?   It's like I've bought scissors when I need grass cutter logic then I point out the scissors' short comings based on my grass cutter's expectations.  Near enough?  ::)  During its very first press release, Canon already pointed out that this camera has only one cross point.  Saying that, everybody knows what to expect.  It's not an action camera and didn't even pretend even for 1 sec.  To add, everyone knows 6Ds flaws through reputable sites already, DPReview and The-digital-picture to name a few.  If anything, I think you can question Canon's logic in introducing 6D and why it doesn't fit your budget and your expectations.  There's a Canon forum for that I believe.

Well, you can keep on criticizing it but keep your expectations down since on the on-set 6D isn't even promised to be a prime body (or even decent) for tracking actions.  There's a limitation on what the software can do for a hardware not built really for action or moving objects.  I'm with you though hoping that there's still hope but it is what it is.  Good luck finding your answers (work-around) though.  Deep inside, I wish you'll find it.  8)

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 05:47:14 AM »

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 05:51:26 AM »
Well, you can keep on criticizing it but keep your expectations down since on the on-set 6D isn't even promised to be a prime body (or a decent body for that matter) for tracking actions.  There's a limitation on what the software can do for a hardware not built really for action or moving objects.  I'm with you though hoping that there's still hope but it is what it is.  Good luck finding your answers (work-around) though.  Deep inside, I wish you'll find it.  8)
One thing that could be improved through Magic Lantern is an option to select "af patterns", i.e. not only one or all af points but for example the 3 or 4 to one side which would make the decisive difference to tracking attempts - they're looking for a solution, but it Canon changed the fw 5d2->6d so the old method doesn't work anymore.

Also I'd like to point out again that "tracking with the 6d" is an optional extra for me, and I just want to get it working as far as it is capable of - otherwise I'm very happy with the 6d concerning its iq as I just commented here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=17950.msg332856#msg332856

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 09:36:06 AM »
One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF)  I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 09:42:28 AM by Martin »
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 10:13:46 AM »
One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF)  I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.

Lol that's cute.

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 11:23:04 AM »
it's not for me to be honest.
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 02:58:50 PM »
it's not for me to be honest.

Ah, glad you qualified that.

For a moment I thought you needed help.

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 03:05:59 PM »
I don't need help, just another camera or a system. The above history is reality. Me and few of my colleagues were really shocked when seeing the results of testing. 
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 03:05:59 PM »

Dylan777

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 03:42:25 PM »
One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF)  I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.

Interesting... ::)

I don't why I got MUCH-MUCH more keepers in AI servo with 5D III than 5D II. Must the photographer ;D
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 03:44:35 PM »
As long as you get some rags to wipe up all that Nikon oil!!! BP got fined millions for their oil spill!,

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 08:04:09 PM »
One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF)  I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.

Interesting... ::)

I don't why I got MUCH-MUCH more keepers in AI servo with 5D III than 5D II. Must the photographer ;D


"keepers rate"...ok...i am not talking about servo. I am talking about AF precision on all AF points, not about servo at long distance with more DOF and probably stopped lenses. Take 16-35 and check outer points with tripod and well lit target at close distance. Take 135L, adjust it for daylight and than go under different light (fluorescent or bulb). With 70-200 L  at daylight, at 40 meters,  at f3,5 shooting speeding cyclist-I had also a "higher keeper rate than with 5d2" but that's not a revolutionary AF.Old canons users did one funny thing-compare everything to 5d2 as a reference and even now, with 5d3-recompose. I am not a brand lover, I switch system 2 years ago (5d2, then 5d3) but I just regret due to AF. I used to use all AF points before, in D300 and it worked precisely for studio works, even when points were not x-type. Let me say I am kind of experienced user so it's not about skills etc. Just want to share it. No offence, I know you love canon, I tried for two years:) thinking that maybe I had a bad copies. No, i did not. It is only my subjective opinion.
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2013, 09:14:59 PM »
it's not for me to be honest.

Ah, glad you qualified that.

For a moment I thought you needed help.

Ok, that made my Friday, I'll be remembering this all weekend, and laughing.
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 11:17:36 PM »
One think u can do for sure is to get rid of canon system and get nikon. One thing is sure for me. Nikon AF, despite faulty D800 units is way better in almost every aspect. I know what is 5D3 in specification list (61 points, many x type points etc.) but try it with one of the outer x type focus points or with center AF under bulbs or fluorescent light-BF or FF. Outer points with mojority of lens just do not wrok (FF)  I have one 5d3 and test two other, different 5d3s-same thing. Reviews and other tests don't shot that. U still has one point in reality. I spent a lot time on testing, trust me or not. Tested different bodies with different lenses, spoke with other users. The new AF system is ok if u use it with center AF, under daylight, with lens adjusted to specific distance, and if the lens are 2.8, if u change one of those factors-it will just not hit the target. That's not the AF system I thought I had paid for. I know how it sounds but it is true, regardless all reviews. Same thing about 6D. AFMA and other service adjustments are useless when u change environment a bit. Check any 5d3 or 6d, LV vs phase detect, then do same test with other camera producer.

Interesting... ::)

I don't why I got MUCH-MUCH more keepers in AI servo with 5D III than 5D II. Must the photographer ;D


"keepers rate"...ok...i am not talking about servo. I am talking about AF precision on all AF points, not about servo at long distance with more DOF and probably stopped lenses. Take 16-35 and check outer points with tripod and well lit target at close distance. Take 135L, adjust it for daylight and than go under different light (fluorescent or bulb). With 70-200 L  at daylight, at 40 meters,  at f3,5 shooting speeding cyclist-I had also a "higher keeper rate than with 5d2" but that's not a revolutionary AF.Old canons users did one funny thing-compare everything to 5d2 as a reference and even now, with 5d3-recompose. I am not a brand lover, I switch system 2 years ago (5d2, then 5d3) but I just regret due to AF. I used to use all AF points before, in D300 and it worked precisely for studio works, even when points were not x-type. Let me say I am kind of experienced user so it's not about skills etc. Just want to share it. No offence, I know you love canon, I tried for two years:) thinking that maybe I had a bad copies. No, i did not. It is only my subjective opinion.

Do shift to Nikon by all means. Most good photographers who do this for a living change systems as and when it suits them. Andy Rouse changed to Canon basically for the autofocus performance of the 1DX. Art Morris on the other hand, shoots Canon through and through - I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

So much for your "subjective opinion" - a highly biased and trollish opinion if anything. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 12:03:55 AM by J.R. »
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2013, 12:23:58 AM »
Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless.  The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus :P).  I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points.  I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports  ;D
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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2013, 12:23:58 AM »

Janbo Makimbo

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2013, 12:47:13 AM »
Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless.  The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus :P).  I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points.  I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports  ;D
It makes lousy coffee too as it was not designed for that either...the 6D has never been promoted as a sports camera although experienced photographers can get decent sports  shots ( Jared Polin for one) the 6D is a fine camera for the price, unfortunately at the price point it has a lot of unskilled amatuers have got their hands on it and tend to moan...' Oh but it doesn't have a built in flash'
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 01:55:40 AM by Janbo Makimbo »

verysimplejason

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2013, 03:35:21 AM »
Any time I've tried to get fast action (not often), the outer points are pretty much useless.  The center point worked great and always focused on what I aimed it at (which was not always what I wanted in focus :P).  I'm not seeing any method which can improve AI Servo with outer points.  I'm starting to get the impression that the 6D wasn't designed for sports  ;D
It makes lousy coffee too as it was not designed for that either...the 6D has never been promoted as a sports camera although experienced photographers can get decent sports  shots ( Jared Polin for one) the 6D is a fine camera for the price, unfortunately at the price point it has a lot of unskilled amatuers have got their hands on it and tend to moan...' Oh but it doesn't have a built in flash'

+1.  6D on the onset didn't even pretend it's a sports camera or an event camera.  It is marketed as an "entry-level" fullframe.  It's like the "rebel" of the full frames.  Given that, there are many professional users of this camera due to its IQ per price consideration.  It might be even better than 5D3 and the highly touted 1DX in some areas arguably.  I think its primary weakness is that given its price, we will always compare it to D600 and D610 thus the expectations.  If its price is below D610/D600 however, I'd presume that no one will complain.

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Re: 6D af tracking: experiences & usage cases
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2013, 03:35:21 AM »