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Author Topic: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras  (Read 131562 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #270 on: December 05, 2013, 11:34:29 AM »
But you´re not the average user, are you ;)

True…but then, I'd say very few 'average users' buy $2300 cameras. 

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #270 on: December 05, 2013, 11:34:29 AM »

Ruined

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #271 on: December 05, 2013, 11:38:44 AM »
Personally when walking around on vacation, if I'm out walking around, I want my camera with me, and if I'm not out walking around, I'm sleeping.  On many vacations, I average well over 300 shots per day - kinda hard on a 200 shot battery, right?  When out shooting landscapes/architecture, I use battery power at a faster rate than the number of shots would imply, due to time spent composing, tilting and shifting in Live View.
But you´re not the average user, are you ;)

But, the average user buys a $500 Rebel SL1 or uses their cellphone ;)

Hence, my questioning of who exactly this camera is designed for.  Average folks won't buy it, pros wouldn't depend on it, so all that is left is the wealthy hobbyist category.  That is pretty niche IMO.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #272 on: December 05, 2013, 11:49:25 AM »
But you´re not the average user, are you ;)

True…but then, I'd say very few 'average users' buy $2300 cameras. 

If you don't mind carrying around a truckload of equipment, surely carrying just an extra battery won't be a deal breaker?

It's not carrying the extra battery, so much as having to use the camera to charge it.  If the battery is built in, fine, but for an item with a removeable, rechargeable battery to ship withouth a standalone charger is just annoying.  It's more personaly preference than anything - if I shot tethered all the time, being able to plug the camera in without spending extra money for a separate AC adapter would be annoying. 

But there's also this:

If you have a battery grip and don’t have a separate charger, you need to remove the grip and place individual batteries in the camera body to charge.

Does that sound convenient to you?  It sounds like a real PITA to me. 

But, the average user buys a $500 Rebel SL1 or uses their cellphone

Hence, my questioning of who exactly this camera is designed for.  Average folks won't buy it, pros wouldn't depend on it, so all that is left is the wealthy hobbyist category.  That is pretty niche IMO.

Agreed.  Anyone thinking the a7R is going to have a major effect on Canon dSLR sales is crazy or under the influence of mind-altering substances.
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Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #273 on: December 05, 2013, 11:51:45 AM »
But you´re not the average user, are you ;)

True…but then, I'd say very few 'average users' buy $2300 cameras.
Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro. If average user can spend $2300 on a body $79 shouldn't be an issue.  I do agree with you Sony should include standard wall charger.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #274 on: December 05, 2013, 11:57:45 AM »
Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro.

Not worried about the weight - worried about how many hours I wouldn't be able to use the complex $2300 camera because it was tied up doing the job of a simple, cheap battery charger. 
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Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #275 on: December 05, 2013, 12:13:52 PM »
Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro.

Not worried about the weight - worried about how many hours I wouldn't be able to use the complex $2300 camera because it was tied up doing the job of a simple, cheap battery charger.
With all respects neuro, you should test drive a7 before we are getting into long discussion here.
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #276 on: December 05, 2013, 12:16:06 PM »
Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro.

Not worried about the weight - worried about how many hours I wouldn't be able to use the complex $2300 camera because it was tied up doing the job of a simple, cheap battery charger.
With all respects neuro, you should test drive a7 before we are getting into long discussion here.
And, looking at your gear list, I suspect you would find the funds to buy a charger and an extra battery ;)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:44:43 PM by Eldar »
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #276 on: December 05, 2013, 12:16:06 PM »

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #277 on: December 05, 2013, 12:44:15 PM »


It's not carrying the extra battery, so much as having to use the camera to charge it.  If the battery is built in, fine, but for an item with a removeable, rechargeable battery to ship withouth a standalone charger is just annoying.  It's more personaly preference than anything - if I shot tethered all the time, being able to plug the camera in without spending extra money for a separate AC adapter would be annoying. 



I agree with you that not including a battery charger was unelegant. Even more unelegant is selling one for 79$. Seems that sony has stepped up their engineering department but not the marketing guys. However, I imagine third-party units will storm the market pretty soon.

The good news about a battery grip is that it completely discharges 1 battery before touching the other. This is a very good thing, because it means that at the end of the day you won't have 2 half dead batteries.

Anyway the battery life should be >300 shots if you don't keep the LCD on all the time. It's nothing like a good DSLR, but it covers reasonably for 1 day, even more if you have a second battery.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #278 on: December 05, 2013, 12:50:05 PM »
The good news about a battery grip is that it completely discharges 1 battery before touching the other. This is a very good thing, because it means that at the end of the day you won't have 2 half dead batteries.

Interesting!  The Canon discharge both batteries during shooting - when I used a (non-integrated) grip, I had four batteries so I could swap both at the end of the day.
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #279 on: December 05, 2013, 01:11:53 PM »
Personally when walking around on vacation, if I'm out walking around, I want my camera with me, and if I'm not out walking around, I'm sleeping.  On many vacations, I average well over 300 shots per day - kinda hard on a 200 shot battery, right?  When out shooting landscapes/architecture, I use battery power at a faster rate than the number of shots would imply, due to time spent composing, tilting and shifting in Live View.
But you´re not the average user, are you ;)

But, the average user buys a $500 Rebel SL1 or uses their cellphone ;)

Hence, my questioning of who exactly this camera is designed for.  Average folks won't buy it, pros wouldn't depend on it, so all that is left is the wealthy hobbyist category.  That is pretty niche IMO.

i think this hits the nail right on the head.
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Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #280 on: December 05, 2013, 04:17:59 PM »
Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro.

Not worried about the weight - worried about how many hours I wouldn't be able to use the complex $2300 camera because it was tied up doing the job of a simple, cheap battery charger.
With all respects neuro, you should test drive a7 before we are getting into long discussion here.
And, looking at your gear list, I suspect you would find the funds to buy a charger and an extra battery ;)

Yes indeed ;D

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #281 on: December 05, 2013, 05:11:09 PM »



I read at http://www.sensorgen.info that the same sensor in Nikon D800 has two stops advantage regarding dynamic range  compared with 1dx and at 100iso, are  you saying that your Sony camera  performing differently than the Nikon D800 when it comes to dynamic range?

Never used a D800E. Just a real world comparison side by side on a landscape shoot.
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #282 on: December 05, 2013, 06:59:06 PM »
Sony A7R Cons:
- Battery charger not included. The battery charges from either an AC or USB source, in camera. Separate charger is $79.

On top of crap battery life, you have to plug the camera in to charge the battery…Sony, WTF?!?

Yes, that threw me as well, I spent 10 Minutes ripping the Box apart thinking "no way", but seems Sony found a way.

The other thing that threw me initially was no software out of the Box to handle Files from the Camera, your on your own and that truly is "WTF".

If you shoot RAW your choices are to download some hopeless Sony thing called "SonyHomeWhatever" which only allows you to view your files, crop and make very minor adjustments, but doesn't allow you to save the file in any other format or method, completely useless (This was my experience, there may be software out there that I wasn't able to locate).

Initially LR didn't handle the Sony RAW file from the a7r either, but the new Adobe 5.3 Release fixes that.

I do like the Camera, I feel it has potential in my own case as a back up to the 1Dx, perhaps a replacement for the 5DMK III in some scenarios, But Sony have sort of crippled the release by it's poor management of support gear, Lenses in particular.

In fact I need to clarify my thought re the 1Dx, I don't see the a7r ever being a back up to the 1Dx, what I meant to say was I see the a7r as a reasonable system camera (with some Lenses) to do the things I currently want to do with the 5DMK III, in particular the form factor & the 36MP sensor hopes. My biggest current "don't like" would be the EVF, never used one before and not so keen at this point, time might rectify that, we'll see.

But I'm happier with the a7r than I ever was with the Leica M9, except the Leica Lenses of course, but with the a7r + Zeiss Glass you have best of both worlds, Beautiful Glass that Auto Focusses on a 36MP Sensor, worth giving a try I think & hopefully Canon some where down the track go one better now that Sony have to some degree shown it can be done.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:11:00 PM by eml58 »
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #282 on: December 05, 2013, 06:59:06 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #283 on: December 05, 2013, 07:23:15 PM »
I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash?  I guess that is the market they are going for.

I agree for now, although:

eventually the EVFs could be better than optical VFs, it could help get one to higher fps for less money (mirror assembly is one the parts that has some real cost to it), with the space savings maybe you fit 1 series battery power into a nice 5D-sized body, once dual-pixel AF is fully perfected maybe the AF would be just as good

as for the A7R and canon users:
I think it's all about the sensor (awesome) and the mount (takes Canon lenses with an adapter) and the mirrorless aspect (other than it helped insure Canon lenses would work) is an afterthought at best and a negative at worst.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #284 on: December 05, 2013, 08:22:38 PM »
LightandMotion,

Thanks for the review. Is the autofocus with Canon EF and metabones at least accurate?
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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #284 on: December 05, 2013, 08:22:38 PM »