August 22, 2014, 07:46:39 PM

Author Topic: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras  (Read 55679 times)

Zv

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1179
    • View Profile
    • Zee-bytes
5D II | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | SY 14mm f/2.8 | Sigma 50 f/1.4

EOS M | 22 f/2 | 11-22 IS

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3322
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

sanj

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1453
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #332 on: December 16, 2013, 10:58:08 AM »
+1 ... it is the cheapest full frame camera with a kit lens anywhere in the world.
As a bundle, yes.  But here in the USA at least, the 6D + 24-105/4L IS kit is only $84 more than the a7 + 28-70/3.5-5.6 OSS, and you're getting a more versatile body and a lens with a broader zoom range on both ends, constant aperture, and one stop faster at the long end. 
... snip ...

yes, 24-105 is a better lens.
but: http://camerasize.com/compact/#380.21,488.396,ha,t
oops! :-)

Yep that is what this is about. And better IQ!

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #333 on: December 16, 2013, 01:12:20 PM »
Yep that is what this is about. And better IQ!

wait for the SonyZeiss 24-70/4 ZE ... if it is as good as the 35/2.8 ... it might easily beat the 24-105. Except in focal length.

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3322
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #334 on: December 17, 2013, 02:04:20 AM »
Yep that is what this is about. And better IQ!

wait for the SonyZeiss 24-70/4 ZE ... if it is as good as the 35/2.8 ... it might easily beat the 24-105. Except in focal length.
It better be, considering they want to charge almost $1200 for it ... I'll be one of the first in line to get the Zeiss 24-70 f/4.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:06:57 AM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 914
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #335 on: December 17, 2013, 04:50:10 AM »
It better be, considering they want to charge almost $1200 for it ... I'll be one of the first in line to get the Zeiss 24-70 f/4.

yep. will be interesting to see, how it will compare to the Canon EF 24-70/4 L IS ... MSRP are the same and streetprice will be similar too once the SonyZeiss gets to full availability.

After reading Roger Cicalas blog re. SonyZeiss FE 35/2.8 and its optical qualities I expect the 24-70 to be very good too.

drjlo

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #336 on: December 22, 2013, 08:13:10 AM »

EchoLocation

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #337 on: December 22, 2013, 09:52:06 AM »
I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash?  I guess that is the market they are going for.
I bought one. i'm a 32 year old who has been in to photography since learning in a darkroom in the early 90's with my mom's old Minolta.
For years, i was dissatisfied with digital cameras because of their poor image quality and generally stayed away. In 2008 I bought a top of the line Sony Cyber Shot for a 3 month backpacking trip to South America. In 2010 I was in Hong Kong traveling and finally bought a Canon DSLR. I was excited to have better image quality. i was never happy with APS-C, the crop factor, and always wanted the best low light abilities. I traveled for about 10 months using the 550D and taking tons of photos.
 After I finished traveling I wanted something to better suit my 24-105 lens, so I traded up to a used 5DC but it always seemed a little antiquated(terrible AF and back screen.)
So, I bought a used D700 and 24-70 2.8 for the AF and image quality. It was simply amazing, but after traveling in Japan for a month last year, my shoulders and back were sore every day from hanging 5 pounds around my neck and shoulders for 8 to 10 hours a day of walking around and sightseeing. Additionally, I like to carry a camera in my bag and when I walk to my work, or come home I like to take some pictures. This is at night and poor image quality annoys me, but my D700 took up my WHOLE backpack and made it a chore to carry, the opposite of fun.
So, I have been eagerly awaiting something that offers top of the line image quality, but in a size that doesn't hurt my shoulders and back. Something that is manageable.
Sure, my D700 is fantastic, and If I had to have the best chance of getting the picture, i'd use that(mostly because of the AF and great ergonomics), but, I simply never carried it in my bag, so I was never able to use it.
If I go to local game, or I just want to go out for a few hour and shoot some pictures, I can use my D700 no problem. but for carrying daily in my backpack, backpacking, hiking, or for my wife, the a7 is 1000x times better.
I don't make money on my photos... but I do enjoy doing it. And I could never say I enjoyed carrying my D700 around.
i bought my a7 last week. I got a small very high quality case for it and it now sits in my backpack every day.
When I go to work, or go out, I ALWAYS have it now. I don't even notice it's in my bag.
So now, photography can be a fun hobby for me again, instead of a (literally) pain in the neck, back and shoulders.

And, this is saying nothing about how AWESOME the a7 is at manual focusing. This is something I loved about my early days but had totally lost using DSLRs.  I Love slowing down a little bit, composing my shots, using focus peaking and magnification and focusing myself! Despite it's small size, the a7 does have all the manual controls, knobs and buttons of a normal DSLR. The layout and programmable buttons are far easier and more useful to me than the D700 or 5DC. The Sony a7 is the closest thing to the old school shooting experience I have seen outside of the Leica.

In all, I'd say the a7 is for anyone who appreciates having absolute top image quality but doesn't want to carry a huge DSLR. This could be anyone.

I also enjoy the odd manual focusing only I went the cheaper route of -

EOS M + FD adaptor + $90 Canon FD 50 1.4 (found on ebay) + Magic Lantern.

I also have zebras and focus peaking and manual only fun but for a fraction of the cost. Sure it's not FF but with a few tweeks in LR images come out just fine.

Just sayin.

Seems a bit strange to buy a $1500 digital camera just to use it as a manual focus only camera. Are you planning on buying additional E mount lenses with it?

based on your logic, Leica shouldn't be in business.

I'm thrilled to be going back to enjoyable, more thoughtful, artistic side of photography. When I first started taking photos, I never dreamed of owning an SLR, it just wasn't the kind of camera I wanted.
Fast forward 15 years and it seemed outside of the M8 and M9 the only obvious choices for high quality camera gear were DSLR's. So, I jumped in to the Canon party with a 550D. But it never really made me feel at home, or comfortable. it was always too big, bulky, and more like a science than an art. Yes the EVF on the Sony is rather high tech, but I love the features it allows(magnificiation, FP, zebra stripes.)
I have really missed manual focusing and I'm enjoying having a reasonable sized camera that still allows me to take photos in a way that is comfortable for me. I also like the kit lens(for what it is) and am planning on buying some FE lenses when they drop in price, or release something faster,
While I love my EOS-M, the lack of dials to control manual settings, and no VF make it a little less than an ideal tool for me to use as my main camera.
Canon EOS-M, 22mm f2, 11-22mm f4-5.6
Canon 550D, Sigma 50mm f1.4
Nikon D700, Nikon 24-70mm f2.8, Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-4

sdsr

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 664
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #338 on: December 22, 2013, 06:04:51 PM »

I also enjoy the odd manual focusing only I went the cheaper route of -
EOS M + FD adaptor + $90 Canon FD 50 1.4 (found on ebay) + Magic Lantern.
I also have zebras and focus peaking and manual only fun but for a fraction of the cost. Sure it's not FF but with a few tweeks in LR images come out just fine.

[....]

Seems a bit strange to buy a $1500 digital camera just to use it as a manual focus only camera. Are you planning on buying additional E mount lenses with it?

based on your logic, Leica shouldn't be in business.

I'm thrilled to be going back to enjoyable, more thoughtful, artistic side of photography. When I first started taking photos, I never dreamed of owning an SLR, it just wasn't the kind of camera I wanted....
While I love my EOS-M, the lack of dials to control manual settings, and no VF make it a little less than an ideal tool for me to use as my main camera.

I guess it's ironic (or at least a bit eccentric) to buy a fairly fancy new camera so you can better use manual (and in some ways rather antiquated) lenses, but manual focusing with a dslr is no fun for me (for one thing, I need a viewfinder as I hate using the monitor; and but optical viewfinders in dslrs are hopeless for manual focusing).  Mirrorless cameras are another matter entirely, and one major reason why I upgraded from the OMD-EM5 to the EM1 is its superior manual AF performance.  This is a mirrorless/EVF advantage in general; it's not specific to Sony: the only advantage the A7s have is the FF sensor - a far from trivial advantage, of course, but old manual lenses don't have IS, and the Sonys, unlike their dslr cousins, don't have IBIS; but the OM-Ds do.  (The M won't do for me because it has neither IBIS nor an EVF.)

spinworkxroy

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #339 on: December 23, 2013, 10:43:41 AM »
i'm just curious..the people that bash the A7R...have they actually used it before?
I personally was a 5D3 user since it was launched and i used the 24-70F2.8II almost all the time so i'm very familiar with what that camera can do.

Recently, i switched to the A7R. so i also am familiar with the A7R.

To compare these 2 cameras,
The 5D3 is faster, has plenty of lenses to choose from and has great IQ and great ISO capabilities.
But, because of it's size, unless you're doing profesional work, 90% of the time, i leave it at home and grab the EOS M instead.

The A7r, is much slower but it's so small and the images that the 35mm zeiss produces is nothing i've seen on the Canon..it's simply amazing...Granted it only has this 1 lens now but 2014 we should see more..
I'm throughly enjoying the 35mm zeiss for now..
Having the evf is wonderful...the face detection and the AF mode together makes even the 5d3 63points seem pointless because though slower to focus, you dont need to even select the af point nor move it..the camera does it for you anywhere in the screen.

though i still fell the a7r is never going to cut it for a professional and his work, it is a camera he will grab and bring out for his own shooting.
And i must sat the SOOC jpg from the a7r is way ahead of the 5d3 even with the best L lens and thw raw files have much more capabilities than the 5d3

this is my experience with both cameras...


sdsr

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 664
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #340 on: December 23, 2013, 02:17:24 PM »
This is worth reading (no surprise there):

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/a-bit-of-a7r-sanity




klickflip

  • Canon AE-1
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #341 on: December 23, 2013, 02:20:52 PM »
though i still fell the a7r is never going to cut it for a professional and his work, it is a camera he will grab and bring out for his own shooting.
And i must sat the SOOC jpg from the a7r is way ahead of the 5d3 even with the best L lens and thw raw files have much more capabilities than the 5d3

this is my experience with both cameras...

Funny I feel it WILL be fine for my professional work..
I tested the A7 quickly and found it focus certainly fast enough for more considered work like static portraits, even some fashion and definitely still life/ product shoots and landscape / general location work. Am looking forward to hiring one to test on a shoot next year. I feel the sensor will give me much more to work with in detail and DR terms.

However I would not really think of using it to do an more docu, or live freeform shooting work. And sports should be fine as I do a lot of skateboarding images, but generally I'll compose light with location flash and lock the focus off to get the shot I want rather than run n gun.

It all depends on how you shoot, not much will come close to the 5D III or 1Dx in AF & speed terms if you rely on that all the time.

Horses for courses no camera will do all, I used to shoot a mix of mainly MF film, 35mm film and sometimes 5x4.
There were never really any cameras that could do it all and dont see why we should think there is thesedays.
In the past deciding which camera, film, lens etc to use for the required shoot opens up your creative choices and makes you focus on what you can achieve with the tools, situation and some creative grey matter!

Overall I was really impressed with how it felt and worked - reminded me of using an film Canon A1.

spinworkxroy

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #342 on: December 23, 2013, 07:32:58 PM »
ah...I made the assumption professional work that 5d3 users use it for, weddings and some sports..
in these aspect the a7 maybe can come closer but definitely not the a7r.
for studio or landscape work, definitely possible..
basically as long as the subject doesn't move, the a7r is fantastic

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3322
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #343 on: January 20, 2014, 02:36:59 PM »
While surfing youtube for Sony a7 tutorials, I came across this video ... and I was blown away to find out that an existing Sony E mount 10-18mm f/4 lens (meant for crop frame) actually works AS FULL FRAME 12-18 lens at full resolution of the Sony a7 ... and it has image stabilization and it is  on pact light weight lens. WOW! now that is freaking AWESOME ... I will be ordering it this weekend. Me very excited.
Watch the video at around 25 minutes mark, where the guy shows the lens.http://youtube.com/watch?v=GSSoQnD5vzE
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 02:41:28 PM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

drjlo

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • View Profile
Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #344 on: January 20, 2014, 05:33:17 PM »
and I was blown away to find out that an existing Sony E mount 10-18mm f/4 lens (meant for crop frame) actually works AS FULL FRAME 12-18 lens at full resolution of the Sony a7 ... and it has image stabilization and it is  on pact light weight lens. WOW! now that is freaking AWESOME ... I will be ordering it this weekend. Me very excited.
Watch the video at around 25 minutes mark, where the guy shows the lens.http://youtube.com/watch?v=GSSoQnD5vzE

I am very surprised about that 10-18 mm being useful on FF (at least at >12mm) because it has quite bad vignetting even on APS-C sensor (2.5 EV at 10 mm end and 1.72 EV at 14mm).  I would be interested in seeing actual wide angle FF shots large screens, not on camera screen.
http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/829-sony1018f4oss?start=1

My enthusiasm is also tampered by the fact the 10-18mm is not exactly a cheap lens at $850  :'(