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Author Topic: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras  (Read 159823 times)

zlatko

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2013, 08:03:33 PM »
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech.  It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution.  No problems with it at all.  I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
Aah! I almost couldn't tell if you were joking or being serious.

Please use some  ::) :o :-* :P ;D faces when telling a joke.
100% serious.  I'm making great photos with Canon.  Their sensor technology proves itself week after week.  Also, Canon service is phenomenal.  I broke 2 lenses in an accident last week and received them fixed by Canon in just 7 days door to door; that includes shipping time and a 3-day holiday weekend.
Ah. Well, opinions doesn't change facts. The fact is that Canon is way behind in both resolution and DR.

Dynamic range is the worst. Canon haven't improved on base ISO since the 5D2, and they haven't even figured out a way to get rid of the shadow banding.

But It's cool that you are cool with that. I guess it depends on personal standards really.. I mean, some people thinks that the output from a Powetshot camera is fantastic.  :) Good for them! Good for you.
I really don't experience any of those issues.  No shadow banding, etc.  Base ISO has never been a problem.  High ISO has steadily improved.  And dynamic range is excellent.  Canon may not meet the standards of some anonymous people, but it meets the standards of a long list of renowned photographers, and a much longer list of not-renowned but very good working photographers and videographers.  I don't buy the arguments about dynamic range.  As I remember, color slide film (Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Velvia, etc.) had the "worst" dynamic range, and yet it was used by some great photographers (with great results) and praised in publishing, advertising, fine art, etc.  The quest for infinite dynamic range, infinite ISO, etc., is a worthy one, but sensors long ago met the technical threshold for high quality work.  So it's really not a worry.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2013, 08:03:33 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #91 on: October 16, 2013, 08:04:29 PM »
For us landscape photographers the wait for a high megapixel body with state-of-the-art dynamic range to be used with lenses like the TS-E 24 II has been tough. But now it's possible at last, with a Sony!

It's pretty ridiculous that the company that had once been THE only player in the FF game will now be the last to offer a super high MP, high low ISO DR body (Nikon has had one for a long while and SONY now has one, Canon.... chirp chirp chirp).  Many said this was coming, the fanboys called them trolls. Well who proved to be the real trolls in the end? Canon went from being all about engineers to being all about business majors and marketing types and milk, milk, milk. It's not like Canon couldn't have done things, they just decided they didn't have to, they told us they were a decade ahead and needn't bother doing anything....

And the thing is, there is an adapter for Canon glass for this new Sony so for static or relatively static work there is basically all but zero cost to play. You just buy and adapter and maybe a spare battery and you are set to go, using all of your current lenses with it. I suppose Canon might not care that much though since they probably make more off of glass than bodies (?).

Not sure I'd instantly jump on this since perhaps canon finally gets sensors with better DR next year?

Maybe this prompts them to give a development announcement very soon to prevent people from blowing their money on this Sony?

You could keep a 5D3 for movies and action stills and general stuff and all your Canon glass and then add a Sony with adapter for all your landscape and other such photography. I already see many Canon people putting in orders for the new Sony.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #92 on: October 16, 2013, 08:06:10 PM »
all these new cameras are great. However, the breaking point will only arrive if and when Sony can come up with lenses as good as the 24-70 II, 70-200 II, etc. 

For me there is no point buying a Ferrari chassis and pairing it with a Mazda engine.

As a second / travel kit probably it is great but the lens collection is too small to be a primary kit. I might consider it once the option for the lenses grow in time.

Cheers ... J.R.

But that's the whole point. You don't have to get rid of your Canon stuff or add new Sony lenses (at least for static stuff) just get the metabones adapter and all your lenses work on this body (even with AF, although it will be too slow for action and perhaps some, if not all, wildlife shooting).

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #93 on: October 16, 2013, 08:06:33 PM »
I could potentially buy it with a metabones adapter just to use it with my Canon lenses for landscape photography, and then sell the body when/if Canon comes up with something at the same level of performance. The big investment is in lenses.

I think Canon big megapixel is still quite far away, and I doubt that the first camera will be as good in the dynamic range department as Sony.

Canon have some really great lenses though just waiting to be used with a great sensor. With Canon's own bodies it's like using a Ferrari engine (lens) on a Mazda chassis (camera)...

+1

zlatko

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #94 on: October 16, 2013, 08:06:59 PM »
excuse me for the perhaps stupid question, but why Sony produced these cameras with the E mount, don't they have already full frame lenses on the A mount? wouldn't it make more sense to give it a native A with already available lenses instead a mount for which they still have to come out with some? I mean the current E mount line is only crop isnt it?
The A mount is full-frame but the lenses are made for a greater distance from sensor to lens.  E mount lenses are made for a shorter distance.  I guess the E mount circle is big enough for full-frame, not just crop (?).

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #95 on: October 16, 2013, 08:12:21 PM »
Funny how many people want to jump ship in a few years because Sony is supposedly to be the next big thing. Everyone has expectations that Sony will have great glass to go with the mirrorless in the near future. Canon will simply stand still ... eh?

With such great expectations from a company that is not even making a profit on the electronics division, people around here tend to think that Canon, the largest Camera selling company for the past decade, won't come up with something comparable, if not better.
Jump ship? I guess you missed the part about this camera being able to use lenses from Nikon, Leica, Zeiss and Canon.

I am not jumping ship. I am simply not buying another body from Canon until they release a high resolution, high DR camera, in a light and affordable package.

The A7R will keep me entertained until then.

+1

5D3 handles action stuff fine, does movies (WITH ML RAW as well as anything)

A7R gives you super DR for landscape work

sure it would be much nicer to have it in one body (especially since it might be tough to take full advantage of the extra reach for wildlife due to the AF being slow with Canon lenses when used on the A7R) but in the meantime it at least gets your top quality landscape type stuff covered well and WITH Canon glass so it's not a big deal move

when Canon releases one then sell this (or, if Canon simply won't bother with better DR or decides to make it 1DsX $8000 type deal only, then just keep using this for the next few years and forget about buying another Canon body for at least five more years)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2013, 08:14:03 PM »
I think this is the adapter: http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter

Focusing performance etc won't be great of course, but I would be using this camera for landscape and still life (for hand-held action and high ISO Canon is very competitive indeed already), ie manual focus via live-view off a tripod.

Say if it's 1 year until Canon releases it's first big megapixel, and it still lacks in DR (I think it will), and then 2 more years before they become competitive at that point. Having an A7R meanwhile at the same time as say a 5D mark III and use Canon glass via adapter seems like a quite good idea. Sure an extra body on the side only for landscape/still life is an expensive solution, but looking the pile of L glass the main cost is there, not in the bodies, and you would get some residual value off the Sony when selling it second hand when you can get a Canon of corresponding functionality.

Saying that this camera is slow and and focusing performance sucks is missing the point. What we should be excited about is that high resolution high DR sensor and the ability to use our excellent Canon glass with it. If you don't desire this resolution or DR then you don't need to look at it.

+1

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2013, 08:14:03 PM »

verysimplejason

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #97 on: October 16, 2013, 08:16:55 PM »
This would be a perfect 2nd camera for me. My canon lenses wont be wasted, spectacular DR, compact, almost no effect on my workflow and can still switch back seamlessly to Canon if and when it offers a better option... What's not to like? Time to save some extras again...

Woody

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #98 on: October 16, 2013, 08:19:21 PM »
SIZE is matter...in mirrorless world small body +  small lens = win

Only to some extent. Sony's upcoming E-mount 70-200 f/4 OSS and 70-200 f/2.8 zooms are not any lighter than Canon's counterpart.

wickidwombat

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #99 on: October 16, 2013, 08:28:14 PM »
i'm pretty interested in the 7R and the 55 f1.8 as a combo since currently all 50mm lenses for canon stink IMO
and of course an adapter to use all my canon glass. I wont be getting rid of my canon stuff anytime soon though but something like this has potential! I have less than 0 interest in a canon high MP body if it is a 1D sized brick if it was 5Dmk3 size id be keen.

while this thread has been based entirely on specs of sensors AF tech details etc I havent seen any feedback on how the thing handles, ergonomics UI etc? anyone thats spent some time with one care to comment on the useability of this beast compared to say a 5Dmk3?
APS-H Fanboy

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2013, 08:32:46 PM »
Could you provide a link to that adapter? Is it supporting AF or MF only?
I still don't know the name of the adapter. Haven't gotten that far yet, but here is a video of a guy using the 17-40L on the A7R, with AF and everything. :)

Fast forward to 11:20. (but I recommend watching the entire video).



The A7R video looks a bit aliased but the A7 looks better than any Canon DSLR native video and they didn't play market segment games with zebras, peaking, etc. etc. (5D3 with ML RAW is very likely still better though)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2013, 08:34:51 PM »

No need to get rid of all your Canon glass, with an adaptor for the Sony you could keep using them and save yourself A LOT of money. That Sony/Zeiss glass is even more overpriced than Canon glass :P!

Putting an adapter + L lens(es) on A7 or A7R would kill the primary purpose of mirrorless. You might as well stay with Canon DSLR + L lenses.

??? How?

It means you finally Exmor DR for shooting and you don't have to sell Canon glass and try to buy Nikon lenses.

wickidwombat

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2013, 08:38:21 PM »
oh and if zeiss make a 55mm f1.4 otus with AF for this puppy i think it will be impossible to turn down :D
APS-H Fanboy

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2013, 08:38:21 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2013, 08:42:11 PM »
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech.  It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution.  No problems with it at all.  I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.

Wow, how much does Canon pay you to shill for them?? How is 2.5 stops worse DR, 50% less MP and modestly less color resolution, truly amazing, world beating?? How is not having improved DR or MP for more than half a decade very pleasing sensor improvements from generation to generation (OK at high ISO maybe, but not at low ISO).

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2013, 08:43:51 PM »
I don't worry a bit about Canon's sensor tech.  It's amazing, especially as to resolution, dynamic range and color resolution.  No problems with it at all.  I'm also very pleased with the improvements from one generation to the next.
Aah! I almost couldn't tell if you were joking or being serious.

Please use some  ::) :o :-* :P ;D faces when telling a joke.
100% serious.  I'm making great photos with Canon.  Their sensor technology proves itself week after week.  Also, Canon service is phenomenal.  I broke 2 lenses in an accident last week and received them fixed by Canon in just 7 days door to door; that includes shipping time and a 3-day holiday weekend.

Sure you can take nice photos with a Canon DSLR and maybe they have good service but what does that have to do with top DR, resolution, color sensitivity?? You should run for political office  ;) ;D.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2013, 08:43:51 PM »