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Author Topic: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras  (Read 60584 times)

torger

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2013, 11:07:35 AM »
(don't get a mirrorless, you'll regret it (even if it's from Canon, should they ever decide to produce such ****, which I hope they never do)

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2013, 11:07:35 AM »

JEL

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2013, 11:18:37 AM »
Sooooo... dust gets on the sensor while you change lens and you blame the camera?  :o
And you registered for the urge to say this?  :o

Yes, sorry if I stepped on your toe or something, but without the mirror the sensor is wide open and that's just not a clever design. Like I said, I'm talking from experience here. Don't be a fool and fall for this 'fancy smartness' just because I did. DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. I don't care if you go ahead and blow your money on a mirrorless, but I felt a warning was in order. Take it or leave it. Peace out dude! :)

Hmm. I'm getting this strange kind of feeling that you don't really like mirrorless cameras.

You're like a psychic :)
You're right. Mirrorless is a consumer-trick. It sounds really cool, but they never mention the side-effects.

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

There might be a group of people who will switch to, or start with, mirrorless. Each to his/her own.
Fact is mirrorless has this major side-effect which WILL ruin your photos.
The choice is obviously your own :)
But mirrorless is not a clever design.

qwRad

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2013, 12:04:12 PM »
Very interesting release. Would be a great and light high system for wide landscapes while hiking with a 17mm TS-E or even the suggested dark horse Nikon 14-24 f/2.8. With the long teles (especially fast) the weight savings aren't that great and of course there's the issue of AF for tracking etc.

From the video http://youtu.be/bnvgceTEV3c that was linked to this thread a while back I have two issues though.

1) The shutter sound is quite loud vs. the recent silent modes from Canon. This I can live with.

2) Battery-life just plain sucks. The reviewer says "under 300 shots" with the A7r which is just laughable. Imagine a a week long hiking trip or even a weekend trip. All the weight you save vs. a 5D3 for example would be negated by all the batteries you would have to lug around... ;)

ahab1372

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2013, 12:06:21 PM »
[...] DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. [...]
So were horse and carriage ;)

9VIII

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2013, 12:07:30 PM »
I think the overall design of the A7 is pretty good. It has four wheels on it and a bunch of custom buttons. That's four wheels that can be used for ISO, white balance, and who knows what else. Hopefully that sort of design catches on. The placement of the shutter button is odd, but I guess it's not the end of the world. (and the mode dial has custom settings!)
As long as I get aperture control it should work as well as my 5D2 for indoor shots on a tripod. I actually like that it uses an adapter because that means there's always a tripod foot attached to the lens instead of hanging off the bottom of the camera, which usually feels a lot less sturdy. And it has Wi-Fi to control your shot remotely, it would be great to be able to see what you're doing from in front of the camera.
As appealing as all this is, having all your lenses work natively can be a big deal, and Canon has most of the same features. The big question really is what the price of the big MP from Canon will be. If they put it in the 1D price bracket it's not going to be much of a contest.
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JEL

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #155 on: October 17, 2013, 01:16:45 PM »
[...] DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. [...]
So were horse and carriage ;)

Well, choice is good.
Informed choice is very good :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 02:03:21 PM by JEL »

BJDrew

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2013, 02:04:20 PM »
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I really do appreciate the heart-felt and honest post about the Sony camera system. From someone so important to the Canon information "engine" - it means a lot. I hope it means a lot to Canon as well. Thanks again.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2013, 02:04:20 PM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #157 on: October 17, 2013, 02:31:16 PM »
the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet.
What a shame, Canon & Nikon should have hired you for your incredible foresight and the ability to predict future.
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JohnDizzo15

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #158 on: October 17, 2013, 03:13:40 PM »
None of this is neither here nor there. The fact of the matter is, every photog has a differing set of needs. These new Sony developments will be perfect for some and not so much for others.

Assessing these new bodies and coming to the conclusion that they will inevitably replace the current form of DSLRs or render Canon bodies obsolete merely exhibits a lack of understanding of EVERY shooter's needs and a very narrow perspective. No one here can possibly account for all the variances of work or preference that exist out there.

The A7 and A7r will blow many people away. Conversely, they are still flawed in many ways that make them impractical for many applications such as AF speed with EF lenses, a max flash sync speed of 1/160 (a huge deal to those who shoot anything other than natural light), 300 or less shot battery life, amongst other things that may or may not be found as they start to get into people's hands.

Either way, these bodies are huge advancements in technology and the mirrorless market. I love that they exist now, and I too am on the fence about getting one as a completely separate kit for working on personal projects with specific lenses (wouldn't make sense for me as a second body for paid work). However, there are still major issues that need to be resolved before it could be viewed as what is going to completely destroy the Canon user's need for their current DSLR or the general DSLR form factor as we know it.

Albi86

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #159 on: October 17, 2013, 03:22:15 PM »
the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet.
What a shame, Canon & Nikon should have hired you for your incredible foresight and the ability to predict future.

Well, can't be quite a prophecy, but similarities do exist.

I remember people complaining about low refresh rate and ghosting, inconsistent white point and color reproduction, narrow angle of view, etc etc. Also back then there were hardcore CRT users who snubbed the first generations of LCD displays and swore that they would never truly compete with catodic tubes... and look at the world now.

Human beings love simple novelties but are genetically programmed to refuse big changes. But changes do happen, and people/companies who don't keep the pace are left behind. We now praise Sony for being ahead of the competition, but it's the same Sony which saw its domination of TV market being eaten up by Samsung. And the list is long....

Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #160 on: October 17, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »
Sooooo... dust gets on the sensor while you change lens and you blame the camera?  :o
And you registered for the urge to say this?  :o

Yes, sorry if I stepped on your toe or something, but without the mirror the sensor is wide open and that's just not a clever design. Like I said, I'm talking from experience here. Don't be a fool and fall for this 'fancy smartness' just because I did. DSLRs work. They're tried equipment with a good and stable track-record. I don't care if you go ahead and blow your money on a mirrorless, but I felt a warning was in order. Take it or leave it. Peace out dude! :)

Hmm. I'm getting this strange kind of feeling that you don't really like mirrorless cameras.

You're like a psychic :)
You're right. Mirrorless is a consumer-trick. It sounds really cool, but they never mention the side-effects.

Unfortunately(?) the DSLR concept is as dead as CRTs (you know those big fat TVs and computer screens) was in the early 2000s, but they don't know it yet. DSLRs will hang on for as long EVFs and on-sensor focusing is not as good for the photojournalists and action photographers, but then they will disappear in favor of mirrorless.

It will be interesting to see who will be leading this unavoidable shift in technology. Currently it seems like Sony has the lead.

There might be a group of people who will switch to, or start with, mirrorless. Each to his/her own.
Fact is mirrorless has this major side-effect which WILL ruin your photos.
The choice is obviously your own :)
But mirrorless is not a clever design.

Operator error maybe?
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JohnDizzo15

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #161 on: October 17, 2013, 03:43:34 PM »
Good points Albi.

I do not doubt that mirrorless will be there one day as well. But that day is not today nor is it the official release date of these bodies. I personally do not care whether it is a big change or not. I do not merely hold onto the kit I have because it is what I have always been used to and fear change. There are fatal flaws in the A7 and A7r for my needs (native lens options, flash sync, and battery life) that will not allow me to put all my eggs in that basket to make it my body in my primary kit at present. I long for the day that those issues are solved and I can whole-heartedly make an uncompromised jump. Until then....
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 03:45:13 PM by JohnDizzo15 »

Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2013, 04:05:40 PM »
Looks like mini 1D X ;D

Attach EF adapter and 85L II to it, you wouldn't be able to tell the diff. ::) :o :-\
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 04:12:07 PM by Dylan777 »
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Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2013, 04:05:40 PM »

Albi86

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #163 on: October 17, 2013, 04:15:40 PM »
Good points Albi.

I do not doubt that mirrorless will be there one day as well. But that day is not today nor is it the official release date of these bodies. I personally do not care whether it is a big change or not. I do not merely hold onto the kit I have because it is what I have always been used to and fear change. There are fatal flaws in the A7 and A7r for my needs (native lens options, flash sync, and battery life) that will not allow me to put all my eggs in that basket to make it my body in my primary kit at present. I long for the day that those issues are solved and I can whole-heartedly make an uncompromised jump. Until then....


I do agree with you that the A7's are not the perfection. The thing here is a bit more subtle: considering that this technology will probably mature and see many more manufacturers joining the arena, will they be the majority in a few years? Is it sensible to keep investing in a DSLR, or is it better to start investing in one of these new systems?

A funny thing is that many people have been preaching the demise of APS-C for years. The advent of mirrorless FF, imho, could make APS-C the only segment where DSLR will still be dominant.

drjlo

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2013, 05:24:26 PM »
Looks like mini 1D X ;D

Attach EF adapter and 85L II to it, you wouldn't be able to tell the diff. ::) :o :-\

Don't know about you guys, but it's totally nuts to buy a $$$ "compact" FF camera, then turn around and add a brick to it.  I do wish Sony had utilized all that extra dead space inside the large grip to fit a larger battery.  Oh, well, I guess you can't have it all.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2013, 05:24:26 PM »