November 29, 2014, 02:22:59 AM

Author Topic: What's Next for Canon?  (Read 26545 times)

alexanderferdinand

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 448
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 03:56:08 AM »
Canon in my eyes for the last few years:
brought us some excellent lenses (24-70 and 70-200, both 2,8, both v2.0; the range of the superteles)
the radio triggered flashes: nice!!!

Bodies: don`t know 1DX, like to have one.
5DIII: goodygood, espacially the new AF. (and please: make the SD- slot faster!! UHS was there long before!!)1D4: solid, fast, reliable. Love it.

What I don`t like so much: the cuts and cripples to make a camera fit in "their" segment.
Example: buffersize, the lame AF of the 5DII.
1D MKIV, 5DMk III, lot of lenses, flashes etc
Fuji X100s, Sony RX100 III,
Fuji X- E2, XF 23 1,4, XF 18- 55 2,8-4

canon rumors FORUM

Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 03:56:08 AM »

xps

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 04:09:45 AM »
I posted this on another thread, but it is more relevant here.

I don’t believe Canon will lose their sleep over me and if I, as an individual, stay or go. In fact, as individuals none of us scare Canon very much. But if you read more of the posts on this and other threads, you see a growing discontent amongst the CR members, for losing ground to the competition in the areas that are important to us. In general we are happy with the lenses, but we are not happy with the bodies.

I’m not sure we are big enough even as a group, to make much of a difference, but we have impact way beyond the equipment we buy ourselves. Canon should worry about the fact that I, and lots of other CR members, advice lots of people every year, on what to buy.  And I would guess that somewhere around 20-30 of those asking me for advice actually buy cameras, lenses and accessories. If I stop recommending Canon and recommend Sony, Nikon or something else instead and a large number of members on this forum are doing the same, it will have an impact they should take very seriously.

So, Canon, I really hope you are paying attention. The road to becoming the Nokia of the photography world is not that long ...

+1
To milk the cow until there is no milk anymore (until nearly no one buys the product anymore) is dangerous. Dangerous, because there are a lot of other manufacturers that reasess their products and have an turn over time half of the time Canon has.
Just see the new Fuji X-E2, Nikon 610,5300,... (A lot of new announcements but no one from the brand leader)

dilbert

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3241
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2013, 04:25:33 AM »
I don't think Canon knows what to do.

Between Fuji, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic and Sony, there is a lot of market fragmentation. And that's not even including the phone with a camera.

More with less.
More for less.

hendrik-sg

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2013, 05:01:22 AM »
Whats next: maybe a price increase. A more expensive product is better and more desirable, isnt it?


Ricku

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2013, 05:41:30 AM »
Of course SLRs are selling better than mirrorless, that's precisely my point. They are selling much worse now, which is why Canon doesn't care. But if they keep not caring until the mirrorless cameras overtake SLRs' marketshare, it will be too late: their competitors will have taken over the mirrorless market and they'll struggle to keep their leadership position.

I personally don't believe mirrorless are the future.

From Luminous-Landscape.com:

The world-wide trend is toward smaller cameras. Maybe it's the aging population, or maybe just a Japanese trend that is slowing spreading around the world. (Apparently more than 50% of new DSLR style camera sales in Japan are now Compact System Cameras rather than larger cameras with optical finders).

And it's not just Japan. 4 of my photographer friends has dumped their Canikon DSLRs and bought mirrorless systems. Honestly, I might follow suit with the A7R.

I think that everyone who isn't a sports photographer will sooner or later switch over to mirrorless.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 05:49:07 AM by Ricku »

Canon 14-24

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2013, 06:11:58 AM »
Medium format is the future!

Eldar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1716
    • View Profile
    • Flickr
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2013, 06:15:28 AM »
Medium format is the future!
yes, for a tiny, tiny, tiny and very exclusive part of the photography community ...
5DIII, 1DX, 8-15/4L, 16-35 f4L IS, 24-70/2.8L II, 70-200/2.8L IS II, 70-300/4-5.6L IS, 200-400/4L IS 1.4x, Zeiss 15/2.8, 17/4L TS-E, Zeiss 21/2.8, 24/3.5L TS-E II, Zeiss 35/1.4, Zeiss Otus 55/1.4, Zeiss Otus 85/1.4, 100/2.8L IS Macro, Zeiss 135/2, 600/4L IS II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2013, 06:15:28 AM »

Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2013, 07:28:05 AM »
And it's not just Japan. 4 of my photographer friends has dumped their Canikon DSLRs and bought mirrorless systems. Honestly, I might follow suit with the A7R.

I think that everyone who isn't a sports photographer will sooner or later switch over to mirrorless.

i had an olympus E-PL1... with the kit lens.. and only the kit lens.
then i bought a panasonic GF3 with the kit lens.. and only the kit lens.
now i have a E-PL3 with the kit lens.. and you guess it.. only the kit lens.
and im thinking about selling the E-PL3 and buying a fuji as carry around camera.

from my own experience and observation of my surrounding i have to say.. with mirrorless there is no brand loyalty.

most mirrorless user i know are not invested in a system.
they have a camera and only one lens. just like me.

looking at the canon or nikon owner i know.. they are heavily invested in the systems.

another point is... this forum and others like this are not a mirror of the outside world.

and who cares if all the other manufacturer push a few percent market share from left to right?
the day nikon and canon come up with a real mirrorless solution, nobody will care about m43, nex, and co. anymore.
because canikon already have a huge userbase and the best systems.

all that talk about switching is sooooo boring... you can´t read a single thread here without someone thinking loud about switching. i wonder why the forum still has so many canon user.

it´s like a spoiled child that makes empty threats.
switch or switch not... but don´t be so naive to think you can influence canons decisions.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 07:38:38 AM by Lichtgestalt »

Ivan Muller

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2013, 07:38:21 AM »
As a loyal Canon user since the very beginning and not one that gets overly excited about new products from anyone including Canon I have been patiently waiting for Canon to play catchup with the likes of the nikon D800 sans low pass filter, quite sure that it must come at some stage ...but the latest release from sony has really got me excited..36mp in a compact body with Zess lenses...all at fairly reasonable prices. Makes me wonder when we are going to hear about Canons megapixel offering... I am starting to wonder if they dont have a sensor manufacturing problem...can they actually make a megapixel sensor or have they fallen too far behind, or what? Just wondering...

with an adapter I can surely use my Canon lenses and with software l can get rid of colour casts and vignetting...why should I wait anymore from Canon to eventually bring out something to compete?

Ruined

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 652
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2013, 08:03:41 AM »
I think mirrorless is a transitional technology between the current high end cameraphone (i.e. Lumia 1020) and the cameraphone of the future.
I see three groups of people here: those who take snapshots with little care for quality (cameraphones), those who care about quality but don't want to pay too much for it or have too big a camera (mirrorless), and those who put image quality above everything else (SLR).

And what I am saying, is given the shrinking camera market and growing cameraphone market, I don't think there will be room for three in time.  So the middleman (Mirrorless) will eventually be (or rather, already is, hence the stunted sales) eclipsed by the highend cameraphones and SLRs.  Pros aren't going to give up the best of the best quality, and consumers who want utmost convenience are not going to truck lenses around with them when the cameraphone offers spectacular quality - heck even asking to truck around two devices instead of one device is asking a lot from many people. Either mirrorless will remain a niche or simply have some of its tech integrated into DSLRs.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 08:06:25 AM by Ruined »

Ricku

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 08:09:15 AM »
I see three groups of people here: those who take snapshots with little care for quality (cameraphones), those who care about quality but don't want to pay too much for it or have too big a camera (mirrorless), and those who put image quality above everything else (SLR).
Not really true any longer.

Many of the mirrorless cameras outperforms anything that Canon offers at the moment. Especially the new A7R from Sony, since it will offer a whole lot more DR and resolution than the 5D3/6D/1DX.

DSLRs still have the upper hand when it comes to lenses, but for how much longer? And besides, the DSLR lenses can be used on mirrorless cameras.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 08:10:58 AM by Ricku »

AmbientLight

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2013, 08:16:32 AM »
What I would like to read or hear about would be a 1Ds Mark III successor.

Sadly a new M offering is much more likely. I might purchase that, if it offers increased usability or I might also purchase the original M, if the price keeps dropping, but that is not my focus and neither will this bring anything more than marginal revenue for Canon on my part.

Is this important to anyone? Probably not, but it kind of shows the dilemma, which is obvious both for Canon product management and actually in this thread as both suffer from discussing both mirrorless and large MP sensor topics at the same time.

Hopefully Canon will not neglect the high MP DSLR market in favor of a Medium Format offering only. I don't think it would be a good decision for Canon to only go into that tiny niche.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:03:30 AM by AmbientLight »

Pag

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 09:12:37 AM »
Antigravity:  Because that's the only way you'll be able to handhold all day with a mirrorless, lenses which are quite hand-holdable with a gripped or pro body.  Even something relatively dainty like a 100-400 would be unbalanced and awkward on a mirrorless.  Unless you think it would be humorous to see people with a 70-200/2.8IS II on a gimbal head shooting a wedding... actually, that probably would be humorous for most of us :P

I checked and my mft Olympus E-P3 with a 14-150mm (equivalent to a 28-300mm on full frame) is actually smaller than my 6D with a Sigma 50mm f/1.4. It's quite easy to hold by hand. That's why I think mirrorless cameras work best with smaller sensors: the lenses can become much smaller too.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 09:12:37 AM »

AvTvM

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 09:19:27 AM »
Off topic:
@Lichtgestalt: you got the kind of answers you provoked in the first place. Deal with it like a man.

On Topic:
I am convinced Canon and Nikon have missed the boat big time. Both failed to do enough for photo enthusiasts. EOS 7D II and D400 along with some more really good and affordable EF-S/DX lenses should have come 1 to 2 years ago. D600/610 and 6D should not have as marketing-crippled as they are, or much cheaper by now (USD/€ 999). Conon 5D III should be sold at the price of  D800. All the Canon focus on video and hi-end cinema products does little to nothing for the market segment of photo enthusiasts and semi-pros. And the true Pro-segment is not growing but shrinking. 

Sony A7/R are are pivot point for the industry. 36 MP FF-sensor, in a camera the size of a mFT mirrorless. Zeiss lenses to go with it and many more lesnes - including more affordable options will follow from all sides. Existing glass useable via adaptors. Imagine, Canon (or Nikon) would have brought or will eventually bring a MIL like the A7 and A7R.  What do you guess would or will it cost at launch? Based on recent pricing decisions my guess is: more than USD 4000 for an A7R and around USD € 3500 for an A7.

Sony goes ahead and offers the A7/R at USD 2299 /  1699. It's almost unbelievable. Yes, I know lenses are needed too, and they don't come for free. Neither do Canon's or Nikon's.

Canon (and even more so Nikon, since they only got imaging business) are in for really difficult times. Even if they also bring FF MILCs to market, they will be almost 1 year late. And if they now try to charge 4k+ for them, they will be laughed at. I must admit, I really like this situation. Personally, I'm going to hang on to my 7D and Canon glass for some more time, and wait until I either can pick up a Sony A7 in a special  999, - deal or a Sony A9R with 5-axis IBIS and high-performance on-sensor phase-AF at less than 3 grand. Or a fully competitive Canon MILC at one of these price points. Whatever comes first. :-)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 09:23:21 AM by AvTvM »

Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 09:27:38 AM »
Off topic:
@Lichtgestalt: you got the kind of answers you provoked in the first place. Deal with it like a man.

nonsense!

i have insulted nobody in this thread.
the insulting replys where completely uncalled for.


i basically said, we can not decide what he should do.
and i really don´t care if anyone here thinks about switching... most think about it for years and nothing happens... they are still here.

so you have to ask yourself.. how serious are these people or what is it they want to achieve?


Quote
I am convinced Canon and Nikon have missed the boat big time.


keep hearing that for over 3 years now. people predicting hard times for the next year.
and still canon is doing well.

Quote
Canon (and even more so Nikon, since they only got imaging business) are in for really difficult times.


we will see.

in 2012 it did not look so bad for canon.... despite all the doomsday preacher.

http://fstoppers.com/examining-fiscal-year-2012-sales-for-olympus-sony-nikon-and-canon

feelings and what people think are one thing... the numbers are what counts.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 10:19:36 AM by Lichtgestalt »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 09:27:38 AM »