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Author Topic: What's Next for Canon?  (Read 25318 times)

Ruined

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44:56 PM »
The 7D Mark II will be an updated 7D.  It won't be APS-H, it won't be mirrorless - either of those would be new camera lines with different designations. 

Will the 7DII be 'revolutionary'?  What Maeda sais was, "We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory."  Evolution ≠ revolutionary.  Also, that interview predates the 70D, and one could argue that at least part of the 7D's 'new territory' will be a dual-pixel AF sensor. 

Because of Maeda's statements, recent DPAF, STM lenses, etc - it only makes sense to me that the 7D2 will be like a better built 70D with more features.  I believe it will be weather sealed yet also with flipout screen for video, as well as headphone jack and other features missing in 70D.  The new territory the 7D will have evolved into then, is video.  Makes sense as nearly every piece of gear released this year was video-related - DPAF/70D, STM lenses, and wideangle USM lenses with IS.  All would point to a 7D2 that is awesome at video - in addition to birding, sports, etc.

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #75 on: October 18, 2013, 01:44:56 PM »

Lichtgestalt

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #76 on: October 18, 2013, 01:46:29 PM »

On the other hand, I just came in from shooting some autumn images, shot with the 5DIII and the 16-35 f2.8L II, which I rarely use, and results weren´t that bad. So, have a good Friday night everyone, I´m off to shoot some more, with my old fashioned and crappy Canon bodies ;)

i doubt canon is to blame for the piece of sky and blue colors of the surrounding leaves.
that´s sure an editing mistake?

honestly with that quality your 16-35mm really sucks, i have to agree.
but more MP will not solve that problem.
he he, Thanks for spotting that. I was curious to see if anyone would care to check and make a comment about that and the inability to hold it steady at 1/15s ;)

exif say 1/30s and 1DX by the way.

see a 36 MP body would have helped you nothing in this case.
i dare to say it would have looked worse.

to really see the difference of 14 or 18 MP more you need a flawless technique.
means carrying a tripod too.
 
no offense but the image looks, from the quality, like a P&S not like a 1D X.
the borders are really awfull.

im happy with 22MP on the current 5D MK3.
what i really want is a mindblowing 12-24mm that doesnt cripple the sensor performance.

ashmadux

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2013, 02:07:59 PM »
I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent.  No adapter (thought about it). A 55-250 on this thing would kill. On several occasions i carry it alongside a g12, fitting perfectly with space to spare inside a lowepro dslr shoulder bag.

Sensor wise- its a strange beast. Great color range, but lacking in pixel level sharpness compared to my t2i. Almost 7d-like noise levels at anything after iso 100. Night shots are fantastic (well, so is on my g12). Ive been shooting long exposure iso 100 shots at night this past week, and the results are just awesome.

On the cons side

• Ive had a beeyach of a time creating baseline LR recipes for several shot types. The files colors and DR are just very weird to me, especially for daytime shots.
• No IS on the prime means a LOT of oof shots. That's a damn shame
• Action? Forgedduboutit.
• Screen is easily scratched- weird- not one of my regular dslrs ever managed to get a scratched screen. Must be a cheaper coating.
• Handling is goofy. Feels fragile. Hard to not put fingers on the lens front/filter.
• Needs another knob or two.

Eventually i will get the adapter, but for now the 22mm is gold, imho.


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Etienne

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2013, 03:23:09 PM »
I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent. 

Yes there is a FF equivalent ... the 35 f/2 IS ... on a 5DIII it is far superior to the EOS-M 22 f/2 combo (I have both). Not only does the 35 f/2 have IS, it generates a much shallower DOF on FF, and the 5DIII has similar IQ at ISO 6400 that the EOS-M has at ISO 800.

ashmadux

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2013, 03:45:03 PM »
I can understand the M hate.

That said, I LOVE mine. Its a great purchase, primarily for its 22/f2 that has no full frame equivalent. 

Yes there is a FF equivalent ... the 35 f/2 IS ... on a 5DIII it is far superior to the EOS-M 22 f/2 combo (I have both). Not only does the 35 f/2 have IS, it generates a much shallower DOF on FF, and the 5DIII has similar IQ at ISO 6400 that the EOS-M has at ISO 800.

I misspoke- no aspc equivalent - the 35 wouldnt be wide enough, but that IS would save the day. I didnt mention that i recent rented the 24 1.4 to emulate what i can achieve with the m. Pot even close, due to horrible misfocusing of that lens. Reminded me of the craptastic 50 1.4

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Don Haines

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2013, 04:52:37 PM »


How else would Canon differentiate a 7D2 from a 70D in a "revolutionary" manner?

The 7D Mark II will be an updated 7D.  It won't be APS-H, it won't be mirrorless - either of those would be new camera lines with different designations. 

Will the 7DII be 'revolutionary'?  What Maeda sais was, "We will not be putting out a product with merely better specs, but one that has evolved into new territory."  Evolution ≠ revolutionary.  Also, that interview predates the 70D, and one could argue that at least part of the 7D's 'new territory' will be a dual-pixel AF sensor. 
My mistake... call it faulty memory... I thought he said revolutionary...

If it is evolutionary and not revolutionary,  an improved and sealed 70D is a better bet... but I do hope that Canon gets to the point where we can leave mechanical shutters and mirrors behind.
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Don Haines

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2013, 05:02:40 PM »

You don't need Harry Potter newspapers... Look at online news.... note the number of stories that include video clips.... The articles are a combination of text, static images, and video. Each has it's place and serves a different purpose. Like it or not, video is here to stay.

Of course video is here to stay.  My point is, are still photos here to stay?  Well, yes, they probably are...but you don't need a still camera to take still photos.  Remember Canon's concept camera - it shot video and the intent was to excerpt still frames as needed.

I think we are saying the same thing....Video is here to stay, stills are here to stay.....

For web purposes, you can extract a pretty decent image from video... not anything good enough to print a poster with, but if all you want is a facebook post, it will do. Most astro-photographers shoot video, extract stills, and image stack them to get a "still picture". For birds and wildlife (and that includes brides), if you really want that high quality image, nothing comes close to a quality still image.

BTW, have you played with 4K video? Even from a GoPro you get a surprisingly good image... eventually 4K video will trickle up to "real cameras" and then one will be able to extract an even better image from video.

Also, a number of point/shoot cameras now have a mode where when you take a picture you also get a 5 second video clip.... the lines are getting blurred further...
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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2013, 05:02:40 PM »

infared

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2013, 10:07:59 AM »
I'm a photo guy, not a video guy.  But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

Yeah. Not gonna happen. Two different mediums. Very different purposes. One is about the narrative. The other is about the moment.

Clearly, you guys haven't seen the photos and newspapers in the Harry Potter movies...   ;)

Harry who?
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Albi86

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2013, 11:17:03 AM »

I think that everyone who isn't a sports photographer will sooner or later switch over to mirrorless.

+1

If most of your shots are <150mm mirrorless is a no-brainer.

BTW, I don't know why some people are assuming that a mirrorless offers less IQ than a DSLR, thus being a sort of surrogate.

George D.

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2013, 01:52:57 PM »

You don't need Harry Potter newspapers... Look at online news.... note the number of stories that include video clips.... The articles are a combination of text, static images, and video. Each has it's place and serves a different purpose. Like it or not, video is here to stay.

Of course video is here to stay.  My point is, are still photos here to stay?  Well, yes, they probably are...but you don't need a still camera to take still photos.  Remember Canon's concept camera - it shot video and the intent was to excerpt still frames as needed.

I think we are saying the same thing....Video is here to stay, stills are here to stay.....

For web purposes, you can extract a pretty decent image from video... not anything good enough to print a poster with, but if all you want is a facebook post, it will do. Most astro-photographers shoot video, extract stills, and image stack them to get a "still picture". For birds and wildlife (and that includes brides), if you really want that high quality image, nothing comes close to a quality still image.

BTW, have you played with 4K video? Even from a GoPro you get a surprisingly good image... eventually 4K video will trickle up to "real cameras" and then one will be able to extract an even better image from video.

Also, a number of point/shoot cameras now have a mode where when you take a picture you also get a 5 second video clip.... the lines are getting blurred further...


For sports shooting if you think about it 12fps drive (1DX) is half the speed of 25fps movie mode. Why the fuss with fps, you just shoot movie and extract every other frame. That's what Canon will be soon giving us, single frame + movie mode albeit high speed movie mode for slow motion ability.



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Don Haines

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2013, 02:49:09 PM »

For sports shooting if you think about it 12fps drive (1DX) is half the speed of 25fps movie mode. Why the fuss with fps, you just shoot movie and extract every other frame. That's what Canon will be soon giving us, single frame + movie mode albeit high speed movie mode for slow motion ability.

If a camera can shoot video at 60 frames per second then it is capable of 60 frames per second of still images... the problem becomes storing them... I have a p/s camera that will operate 60fps with 3M images, 12fps with 16M images, and will shoot 120 and 240fps video. One would hope that a DSLR would be able to stream more data to a memory card or have a bigger buffer....

One of the things to expect with mirrorless cameras is much higher frame rates for stills....
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Ruined

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2013, 05:41:00 PM »
Yeah stills extracted from a movie will always be lower quality than traditional stills due to the large amount of compression that would be needed to fit the movie on an SD card.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2013, 11:02:00 PM »
I'm a photo guy, not a video guy.  But in a few years, my kids will be saying, "These silly pictures don't even move, s'up with that?!?"

I really have a hard time picturing a future where photographs are also completely replaced with video. Both have their place. Would I really want looping videos on my walls at home rather than static pictures? That would be maddening. I don't want everything everywhere to be in constant movement. Imagine replacing 100 wedding photos with 100 videos -- it would take forever to go through them.

+1

(and I say that as someone who does love video in DSLRs)

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2013, 11:02:00 PM »

BJDrew

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #88 on: October 20, 2013, 02:32:37 PM »
I'm a little bummed with Canon too.

Here's a little satire you might enjoy:
Canon Responds to Revolutionary Sony Mirrorless Full Frame with Even More Revolutionary APS-C DSLR

http://www.leica-boss.com/2013/10/canon-responds-to-revolutionary-sony-mirrorless-full-frame-with-even-more-revolutionary-aps-c-dslr/

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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2013, 04:14:31 PM »
Canon is going to regret their hesitation and lack of action embracing the mirrorless niche.   This may sound a bit bold but this is the exactly the type of thing that puts good companies in jeopardy.   It is a short trip from comfortably profitable to desparately broke.   With the rapid advancement of the mirroless format including some awesome full frame sensor options I can't see it slowing down and it will eventually overtake the more familiar traditional DSLR format.   Cheaper to manufacture (offering greater profit margins to boot) and image quality nearly on par and soon to be equal in all respects am I the only one who can see that the SLR format is terminally ill?  Oh sure there will always be the holdouts and denials just as today you have the few who would not break from film SLRs but they will be relagated to a small niche. 
Let me just add that regardless of what many may want or think these companies are in business for only one reason; TO MAKE A PROFIT, this will and already is driving companies into this format.  And is the ONLY reason Canon hasn't jumped ship yet because today they are MAKING MONEY.

I for one am going to offload all my Canon gear in the not so distant future, as I am excited by the progress and simplicity of the mirrorless format and definitely wont miss the extra weight and bulk if my old gear.

Lastly if Canon would invest now and produce a sensor that was at least on par with the new Sony and Fuji sensors put it in a body that offered manual and automatic controls and features (like the X-PRO-1 only better) I would buy it without hesitation but I lament because they won't.   So I will move on having enjoyed Canon products when they were cutting edge and moving on the the "new" cutting edge where ever that leads
me Fuji/Olympus/Sony who knows  :o it's a brave new world!
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Re: What's Next for Canon?
« Reply #89 on: October 20, 2013, 04:14:31 PM »