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Author Topic: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?  (Read 3592 times)

adhocphotographer

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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« on: October 20, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »
hi all,

My sister wants a DSLR (for a long time) and as a good brother i am going to surprise her with it for xmas (karma and all that). So I got a thinking....  If i were to start a fresh again, what would i do, knowing what i know now. I would pick up a used 5D (I)...  But I know my sister won't take to kindly to being given an ebay camera for xmas, nor will she appreciate the advantage it would have given her....  So, do I get her a 600/650d kit new, or a second hand 5D? Do i force my opinion upon her, or do i let her play with her xxxD and choose her own path? If you knew nothing about cameras, how would you feel getting a used present?
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« on: October 20, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »

Jim Saunders

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 01:24:20 PM »
The simple answer is to get your sister a new T4i kit and see how she does with it.

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Valvebounce

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 01:35:46 PM »
Hi Adhoc.
How old is your sister, that will perhaps have some bearing on the outcome of new vs used.
I think this is perhaps a generation thing, older generations felt lucky to get a couple of things new or second hand for birthdays and christmases, the current generation is truly distraught if they don't get the latest console with a stack of the latest games and a new bike and a... ::).. You get my drift?

If your sister is of the correct mentality, I would imagine if you are able to find a 5D kit in its original box your sister would be made up especially if during the run up to Christmas you subtly ask her thoughts on full frame and crop and then explain, again with a degree of subtlety, what advantages full frame full frame has over crop.
I do feel it is important that the gift should look like new so the kit in original box manual leads perhaps a new battery etc.
I think you will be doing her the favour of removing one step of upgrade.

Of course the new camera even a xxxD is guaranteed to be a success.  8)

The thing is you should know the answer to this before you buy a camera as disappointment is a double edged sword and it will spoil your day too if your sister is disappointed.

Cheers Graham.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2013, 01:41:13 PM »
Get her a new body with kit lens.  If you're feeling generous, throw in a cheap prime (50/1.8, 40/2.8 pancake) or a 430EX II.
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AmbientLight

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2013, 01:57:43 PM »
The core problem here is having to explain, why you would give a used camera as a present. Even if you expect it to be better, there is a remote risk that there may be issues with the camera body (maybe later on), which would be non-issues with a new body with standard warranty on it. Once your sister gets interested enough so that she would want to purchase additional equipment you can still talk her into purchasing a used 5D or 5D Mark II. In this way such a purchase will be a calculated risk for her, but xmas present memories won't become an issue.

Orangutan

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2013, 02:20:57 PM »
The importance of the first DSLR is to spark an interest and desire to learn and improve.  Get your sister a camera she will be happy and proud to carry everywhere and use for everything.  The next best thing you can do is to invite her to go out on photo excursions with you, at which you share your enthusiasm, but hold back on the teaching and critique. 

Ruined

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2013, 02:28:06 PM »
Go for the T4i.  Besides, both APS and APS-C have advantages - its nice to have both.

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2013, 02:28:06 PM »

bholliman

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 02:37:27 PM »
I also recommend buying a new T4i.  As others mentioned, a used camera may have issues you are not aware of and no warranty to fall back on. 
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Sporgon

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 02:43:39 PM »
I'm definitely in the 'get the new Rebel' camp. Compared with the latest generation cameras the overall interface of the original 5D is more suited to Noah photographing animals on the deck of his Ark. As far as images are concerned the 5D really has little, if any advantage over the latest APS, unless you are going to appreciate that very subtle 5D mki 'look' which most, especially a novice, are not.

If I was buying one for my sister I'd take a good look at the 100D / SL100.

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2013, 02:44:32 PM »
But I know my sister won't take to kindly to being given an ebay camera for xmas..

That's your answer right there. Generally, it's bad form to give a used gift unless your finances are really tenuous or the recipient specifically requests a used item.
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dcm

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2013, 02:46:57 PM »
Depends on the person.  My adult daughters like new, but they also like bargains.  They buy/sell with craiglist/ebay and sell/shop at the vintage/second-time-around clothing stores.  Everything doesn't have to be brand new in their world.

Rather than resell, over the years I have gifted my previous cameras/lenses/laptops to my daughters when I upgraded.  I kept the original boxes and manuals so it was delivered as a complete package.  I usually buy midrange or better so it's always an upgrade for them as well and they have been quite appreciative, even when its used.  They know I've taken good care of it and it will work for them.   

My old T2i was quite a step up from a P&S for one daughter - she is now getting more serious about photography and shooting portraits of her friends and their kids.  My granddaughter now has the P&S and takes some pretty interesting photos for a 2 year old - their point of view gives you quite a different perspective.

Sometimes I give them something new as well.  Looking at a Canon refurb lens for one right now. Not sure if you would classify that as new or used.
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distant.star

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2013, 02:48:39 PM »
.
First, if I didn't know anything about cameras, why would I want a DSLR?

The "benefits" you believe may be inherent in a used 5D may not exist. As experienced photographers, you and I will detect problems that cause the camera to perform badly. An inexperienced user may not see those problems. There is no way you can be sure what you're getting with a used camera. It could be faulty. It's not really fair to saddle your family member with that kind of uncertainty, and it will not aid their constructive discovery of joy in photography.

Second, does she really want a DSLR? Does she understand the genuine differences between a DSLR and other available cameras? Many people say they want things; often as not it's just talk. I'm not saying it's the case with your family member, but you have to be clear-eyed enough to discern that. It would not be helpful if she had to explain to you this time next year why the camera is still sitting little-used in a closet. That would be awkward for both of you.

Might she really be happier with a cashmere sweater?

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2013, 03:23:58 PM »
New T4i is much better than the Nikon F2 I started with 39 years ago. 
She'll love it.

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2013, 03:23:58 PM »

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2013, 04:43:03 PM »
I would buy T5i kit 18-55 STM. :o This lens is very sweet for novice users. Who knows, if your sister is more seriously interested, she will get a fast prime lens next year. May scold me, but I do not like 5D mark I, for size and weight does not help, and image quality is far from optimal. I issue a challenge to those who have the ability to do side by side tests between 5D Mark l and new 70D. I bet 70D will have more photos with correct focus, and less noise in the shadows.

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2013, 04:53:58 PM »
Big thumbs up for the 650d or any of that generation of starter cameras. I've used a 350d, then upgraded to a 650d and recently a 6d. The 650's a great wee camera. Much less intimidating than a large FF body, cheap lenses available to upgrade, great video and flip screen, decent low light (combined with a 40mm pancake it's a really good 'portable' camera for parties and nights out).


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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2013, 04:53:58 PM »