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Author Topic: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look  (Read 20376 times)

atvinyard

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2013, 07:25:07 PM »
I don't care if it has video or not.  I think the real story here is going to be the form factor and ergonomics. I've been trying to figure out why we haven't seen a smaller form factor full frame.  I just wish it would have been an Olympus.
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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2013, 07:25:07 PM »

ShootingStars

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2013, 08:20:18 PM »
If it doesn't offer video, and it's not <$1500 because it doesn't offer video, Canon still wins

Woody

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2013, 09:01:52 PM »
If it doesn't offer video, and it's not <$1500 because it doesn't offer video, Canon still wins

Yup.

Nikon wants to appeal to their base of stawart fans. This will also test those folks who claim they don't care about video and all they want is better photographic tools. Now, let's see how big this group is... I suspect it is VERY small and the DF is going to be another misfire, like the Nikon 1.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 09:04:36 PM by Woody »

moreorless

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2013, 02:41:35 AM »
Mikon wants to appeal to their base of stawart fans. This will also test those folks who claim they don't care about video and all they want is better photographic tools. Now, let's see how big this group is... I suspect it is VERY small and the DF is going to be another misfire, like the Nikon 1.

I suspect that taking out video is also a way to differentiate this camera from the D4 that looks like it'll have the same season. Nikon lost a lot of D3 sales to people buying D700's instead and I'd guess that's not something they want to repeat.

To me it looks like Nikon is trying to target a lot of niche markets at once...

Those after a smaller FF system
Existing Nikon FF users looking at a smaller second camera
Owners or buyers of old manual lenses
Those after the retro look/control system

Woody

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2013, 03:42:10 AM »

To me it looks like Nikon is trying to target a lot of niche markets at once...

Those after a smaller FF system...

If the rumors are correct, the DF weighs 750g. Doubt it's going to be small and light...

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2013, 03:56:48 AM »
What does 'pure photography' imply? To me, it means no video. Could be wrong though...

duydaniel

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2013, 04:11:01 AM »
What does 'pure photography' imply? To me, it means no video. Could be wrong though...

Just an ad run by Nikon :))

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2013, 04:11:01 AM »

Albi86

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2013, 04:47:28 AM »
If it doesn't offer video, and it's not <$1500 because it doesn't offer video, Canon still wins

Yup.

Nikon wants to appeal to their base of stawart fans. This will also test those folks who claim they don't care about video and all they want is better photographic tools. Now, let's see how big this group is... I suspect it is VERY small and the DF is going to be another misfire, like the Nikon 1.

Nikon 1 has not been a misfire. Not long ago production couldn't keep up with demand. Eventually market saturation occurred and sales went drastically down. The underwater version seems to be a good way to revamp the system - it's what "weather sealing" should actually mean and I'm interested in a camera that costs less than most underwater casings alone.

Sporgon

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2013, 05:14:44 AM »
Here's my take on it: the DF will  be the most successful Nikon FF camera to date.

Forget the 'Retro" label, that's just Nikon trying to avoid eating humble pie over it's years of dreadful design. The DF isn't going to be that different to a 6D apart from the addition of a physical shutter speed dial. OK, maybe no video, so what ? Of all the people I know who have dslrs and are not specifically videographers or movie makers, non have used the video function after the initial 'wow look at this fantastic quality video' effect has worn off, and they revert back to the camcorder that is much more suited to video of the kids.

I always said that ever since Nikon changed the logo to make it look as if it had had one too many, Nikon lost the plot with their cameras, trying to have all bases covered to suit anybody and everybody. They've finally realised that the vast majority of FF users do not want pop up flash, they want sound ergonomics in a sensibly sized quality body, producing the highest possible perceived IQ, and a 16 mp sensor is going to work just great for that. They want a crystal clear OVF with no translucent LCD murking the image up which Nikon have been doing for years, and even Canon joined that game with the 5D3 and 7D. ( Yes wait for the 5D4, it will loose the translucent crap and have interchangeable screens ). If Nikon are talking about 'pure' photography I can't see this camera having a hybrid viewfinder as this must reduce the OVF quality.

Price wise I guess this will be more expensive than the D610 ( or maybe it will be the D620 by the time the DF is launched ) as it will be a higher quality product, made in Japan instead of farmed out to cheaper countries as so much of the rest of Nikon gear is.

If Nikon have finally managed to get their designs back on track they may have something worth having, like the original FM, at the time of its introduction called 'the worst Nikon ever' by some trade press, yet went on the become the most enduring designed slr in the history of cameras.

Here's a shot of mine. It was the first camera I ever bought new, and despite the fact that I went on the use FM2, FE2 and F3s I never had the heart to sell this one !

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2013, 05:34:52 AM »
Here's my take on it: the DF will  be the most successful Nikon FF camera to date.

YES! But only IF ... Nikon sells the DF for USD/€ 999,- ... full-format "digital rebel" DSLR. hehehe, just like in 2003 Canon's APS-C DSLR! It will then be the last Nikon DSLR to sell more than 1.000.000 copies, before mirrorless FF Cameras quickly retire all DSLRs to where they belong ... camera museum.

NO! IF Nikon tries to sell it for more than even the D610. Then they'll be selling a couple 100.000 copies only. And mirrorless FF cameras will still be taking over soon.

hehe, I love it.  No amount of Retro-crap and good-old-analogue-times nostalgia will be able to change this. :-)

Albi86

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2013, 05:39:54 AM »

I always said that ever since Nikon changed the logo to make it look as if it had had one too many, Nikon lost the plot with their cameras, trying to have all bases covered to suit anybody and everybody. They've finally realised that the vast majority of FF users do not want pop up flash, they want sound ergonomics in a sensibly sized quality body, producing the highest possible perceived IQ, and a 16 mp sensor is going to work just great for that. They want a crystal clear OVF with no translucent LCD murking the image up which Nikon have been doing for years, and even Canon joined that game with the 5D3 and 7D. ( Yes wait for the 5D4, it will loose the translucent crap and have interchangeable screens ). If Nikon are talking about 'pure' photography I can't see this camera having a hybrid viewfinder as this must reduce the OVF quality.



Sorry - almost totally disagree.

1) pop-up flash is great. As with many other things, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The good course is not to remove it, but to enhance it. The RX100 has a tiltable head and even the iPhone 5S has two colors.

2) This camera is aimed exactly at having all bases covered and suit everybody. It will be the real D700 successor, something that D600 and D800 both failed to be. Ironically, something the 5D3 is.

3) I don't know about the 5D3, but the OVF of the D600 is big, bright and very clear. Too clear I would say, to work comfortably in MF at wide apertures. The green dot is unreliable when shooting wider than f/2.8.

4) For the tech level available today, I would say that the 24 MP Sony sensor is the best all-rounder out there. 28 MP would probably be perfect.

Talking about pure photography, to me it means solid build, great all-round sensor, great PDAF, high burst rate, HSS and great strobist options, high compatibility and focus support with MF lenses. Why not, Wi-Fi and GPS.

As of today, I think Sony might be the first to produce such a camera.

Woody

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2013, 06:25:21 AM »
Here's my take on it: the DF will  be the most successful Nikon FF camera to date.

NO WAY that is gonna happen if it weighs > 750g and costs US$3000

Woody

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2013, 06:33:52 AM »
Nikon 1 has not been a misfire. Not long ago production couldn't keep up with demand. Eventually market saturation occurred and sales went drastically down. The underwater version seems to be a good way to revamp the system - it's what "weather sealing" should actually mean and I'm interested in a camera that costs less than most underwater casings alone.

Market saturation => overall market demand is low. The fact that DSLRs now outsell MILCs by 9:1 in N. America and Europe is proof of that. Misfire? Absolutely.

Underwater version is great. I love the idea too! But how many folks need underwater cameras... again a very niche market.

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2013, 06:33:52 AM »

Albi86

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2013, 06:53:24 AM »
Nikon 1 has not been a misfire. Not long ago production couldn't keep up with demand. Eventually market saturation occurred and sales went drastically down. The underwater version seems to be a good way to revamp the system - it's what "weather sealing" should actually mean and I'm interested in a camera that costs less than most underwater casings alone.

Market saturation => overall market demand is low. The fact that DSLRs now outsell MILCs by 9:1 in N. America and Europe is proof of that. Misfire? Absolutely.

Underwater version is great. I love the idea too! But how many folks need underwater cameras... again a very niche market.

Market saturation is different from low demand. Low demand means no one is interested, market saturation means that many people might be interested but once they are satisfied there is no additional demand. That's a tricky one for manufacturers, that today are getting screwed because photography traditionally is not as fast paced a market as consumer electronics usually is. The edge of the 2 worlds is a very unpredictable and tricky territory.

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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2013, 08:18:08 AM »
Here's my take on it: the DF will  be the most successful Nikon FF camera to date.

As long as it is priced closer to $2k than $3k, I think you'll be spot on.  Not only will it appeal to current serious photographers, but there is also a large number of older photographers who dislike the complexity of modern DSLRs.  If it: -

1.  Is simple to use, with a dial to change aperture, a dial to change shutter speed, and very easy method for changing ISO;
2.  Promises High IQ and fast AF;
3.  Stays with a familiar SLR shape; and
4.  Has a Nikon logo (ok, may not be Canon, but Nikon does appeal to many camera buyers...)

I can't see how they can go wrong.  I also think Canon should do something similar and provide a "DSLR for Dummies".  Doesn't have to be a retro design, just simple to use with direct control of the key features.  My Canon "DSLR for Dummies" would also have BIG buttons or dials.  Do you know how difficult/annoying small buttons are for many older people to use?
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Re: Rumor: Nikon Digital FM2 - Retro look
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2013, 08:18:08 AM »