October 22, 2014, 05:57:13 AM

Author Topic: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?  (Read 9287 times)

SwampYankee

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 11:37:48 AM »
Well if you go with the new Sony you will save a ton on lens......because there aren't any.
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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 11:37:48 AM »

Lawliet

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2013, 11:52:26 AM »

I'm just wondering as to what exactly are the benefits of a mirrorless FF?


You have to take focus readings from the image sensor, which eliminates a few sources of error - and without fallback to the traditional AF you make it better work. Highly resolved framewide blur is a rare use case after all. Using data overlays in the viewfinder would have its appeal as well. (Although giving those to the rear display would be a nice first step...)

duydaniel

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2013, 12:03:39 PM »
Though I have never used one, I always wonder how is the dust issue on mirrorless
since there is no shutter/mirror to seal it when changing lenses

ugly_bokeh

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2013, 12:28:41 PM »
One of the most appealing aspects of the full-frame mirrorless (as far as I have read, anyhow) is that you can essentially use any manual full-frame lens ever produced, SLR or rangefinder, via adapter... 

This seems like the classic example of "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."

Are there really that many people out there clamoring to use old FD mount lenses, especially with a modern full frame sensor that will emphasize every flaw in those old lenses?

Is there a really a mass market for manual focus lenses? After using manual focus lenses for decades, I can guarantee you I have no nostalgia for manual lenses. 

And what incentive would Canon have to produce a body that gives new life to the secondary market of used FD lenses?

Sorry if my comment sounded like I was talking about the market in general.  I meant that this is an appealing aspect of full-frame mirrorless to me.

After using them for decades, I don't mind manual focus lenses (I even prefer them, at times), and I hope there isn't a mass market for the old stuff.  In fact, I wish people were less interested in it...especially C/Y Zeiss.

I don't think I ever used any FD lenses.  M42 on the other hand....
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 12:31:16 PM by ugly_bokeh »

Eldar

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2013, 12:29:55 PM »
I don´t like skinny women. I prefer something to both look at and hold. Same thing with cameras.

A mirrorless camera, maybe with an LCD viewer on the back, hooked to my 600 with an extender ... Little less of a problem with an EVF, but still the size imbalance will be a problem.

Then you can add a grip, to make it more holdable and then ... you have the size of a SLR.

But you don´t have the issue of the flopping mirror ... But I have been using SLRs for close to 40 years and never ones have a mirror failed me, so can´t say that worries me much.

But I hate dust on my sensor and, unless there is something I totally miss, that must be a major issue with mirrorless bodies when changing lenses.

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Lawliet

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2013, 12:31:47 PM »
since there is no shutter/mirror to seal it when changing lenses

Most of them have a shutter, just no mirror.
In the case of the A7r an annoyingly slow one. :'(

bholliman

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »
While I'm a big fan of smaller and lighter camera systems, I'm not sure mirrorless FF will have much if any advantage over a DSLR.  The camera body will be somewhat lighter, but the lenses for the system will be as large or nearly as large as those for DSLR's.  So, the overall weight savings will be small percentage-wise, especially when using longer telephoto lenses.

Others mentioned not having to deal with mirror slap, but that is very minor issue and can be easily handled via mirror lock-up for shots where it causes problems.  Also, the mirror helps protect the sensor from dust. 

I strongly prefer OVF's over the latest EVF's (I've tried the latest Sony and Leica ones).  At some point EVF's may evolve to where they are as good or better than OVF's, but they are not that close yet.

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »

ecka

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2013, 01:46:24 PM »
FF mirrorless advantages:
great lens adaptability (including rangefinder optics);
EVF (yes it does have many advantages over OVF);
manual focus (EVF + focus peaking);
easier sensor cleaning procedure;
no mirror - less vibration, longer life;
size and weight;
lower price (than FF DSLR);
perfect for landscape, portrait, macro, astro and video.
FF + primes !

xvnm

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2013, 02:26:55 PM »
One benefit would be is that there would be no slapping mirror.  This makes the camera more stabilized and well, smaller.

You can achieve the same on a DSLR by shooting live view (even though I fail to see what would be the point a DSLR to only shoot LV :) )
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xvnm

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2013, 02:29:28 PM »
Doesn't the short flange distance make it harder to produce wide and/or fast lenses?

Not really. You can always make the flange distance as long as you want: just make the rear end of a lens longer. As stupid as it may sound, this is exactly what Samyang is doing with their lenses for the new Sonys: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/10/16/samyang-announces-five-full-frame-e-mount-lenses
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SiliconVoid

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2013, 03:58:16 PM »
Whether or not it is a cropped sensor or 35mm format does not matter in regard to 'benefits' of a mirrorless camera.

List of mirrorless benefits:
Access to mount/use just about any lens ever made.
-End of list:


Just about everything else involved with mirrorless cameras is a work around or detriment, sorry..
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Normalnorm

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2013, 04:49:45 PM »
As far as I understand, it's the other way around - the farther the pixels from the optical axis & the shorter the flange distance, the obtuser the angle the light hits the pixel, causing vignetting. As far as I gather, this is already an issue on current FF cameras with fast and/or wide lenses, e.g. the 24mm f/1.4 L II has >3 stops of vignetting when wide open (translation: corner pixels record ~1/10th the amount of light center pixels record).

True.  Also, the wider the aperture, the more issues there are with the oblique light angles not being collected by the microlenses, and that issue worsens as the pixel pitch gets smaller.  Current cameras lose up to a full stop of light int he f/1.2-f/1.4 range, and some cameras clandestinely boost the ISO of fast primes by up to half a stop to compensate.

I will add that this is precisely the argument Olympus used in the development of the 4/3 system. They argued that by creating a lens system tailored to the unique properties of a sensor that IQ could be maximized. Thus the 4/3 lenses were not too much smaller that we may have been led to believe.
I also suspect that a number of FE lenses may be old formulas in new barrels to save time and money in getting lenses to market.

Ellen Schmidtee

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2013, 07:46:22 PM »
Doesn't the short flange distance make it harder to produce wide and/or fast lenses?

Not really. You can always make the flange distance as long as you want: just make the rear end of a lens longer. As stupid as it may sound, this is exactly what Samyang is doing with their lenses for the new Sonys: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/10/16/samyang-announces-five-full-frame-e-mount-lenses

It's like using the EF-EOS M adapter, which defeats the point of having smaller camera - whatever you save on body depth you lose on camera length.

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2013, 07:46:22 PM »

verysimplejason

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2013, 09:04:57 PM »
Well if you go with the new Sony you will save a ton on lens......because there aren't any.

Actually Zeiss got some good lenses for Sony mount.  You just have to use adapters as currently there's still not much native mount lenses.  But for this usage, I can imagine how many lenses would you actually expect.  Personally, I would just love prime lenses for this kind of camera.

verysimplejason

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 09:07:08 PM »
One benefit would be is that there would be no slapping mirror.  This makes the camera more stabilized and well, smaller.

You can achieve the same on a DSLR by shooting live view (even though I fail to see what would be the point a DSLR to only shoot LV :) )

And AF is much slower in live view.  The 70D just made it decent enough but it's still a slowpoke compared to non-LV AF.

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Re: Benefits of a mirrorless FF?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 09:07:08 PM »