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Author Topic: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!  (Read 31165 times)

pwp

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2013, 09:03:34 PM »
http://flashhavoc.com/yongnuo-yn-e3-rt-released-yn-600ex-rt-coming/

Yongnuo are getting bolder by the minute. Makes you wonder what sort of conversations are happening between Canon and their litigation lawyers.

-pw

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2013, 09:03:34 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2013, 03:57:08 AM »
Makes you wonder what sort of conversations are happening between Canon and their litigation lawyers.

Probably none, because they figured out that they cannot prevent clones long ago, less so if they aren't 1:1 optical copies.

Of course Unless covered by a patent, but the rt protocol wouldn't fall under that as the Samba folk reverse engineering Microsoft's network protocol showed. But Canon could converse with their technicians to add a (stronger) protocol encryption next time...

Janbo Makimbo

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2013, 05:03:20 AM »
Is everyone sure these images are genuine ??


digital paradise

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2013, 03:10:29 PM »
Actually I realized that some one just repeated the announcement of the product. I thought that post was an update - basically stating the release date. Sorry about that.         

LDS

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2013, 10:55:10 AM »
Probably none, because they figured out that they cannot prevent clones long ago, less so if they aren't 1:1 optical copies.
Of course Unless covered by a patent, but the rt protocol wouldn't fall under that as the Samba folk reverse engineering Microsoft's network protocol showed. But Canon could converse with their technicians to add a (stronger) protocol encryption next time...
Microsoft was forced to open its protocols by antitrust investigations. But look at how Apple is protecting every patent it can enforce, even silly ones - but it sees Samsung as a real issue to its revenues. Maybe Canon thinks it would cost much more than lost revenues, especially since it's a Chinese manufacturer, and without an US or Japanese company to go after it could be very difficult to sue them. although this is really a 1:1 copy looking exactly the same, and I guess this is a real infringement of many copyright rules.
Encrypting the protocol won't help much unless you can protect encryption keys strongly - you need anti-tamper hardware to do it, but it can be broken as well if you can access that hardware (as the PS3 protection was broken). Also stronger encryption needs more powerful chips to be performed on-the-fly, and they could be more power hungry.
Anyway I don't like copies, no matter how much cheaper they are - copying is far less expensive than developing from scratch - and it's not compatibility, which is something different. It is true that Canon started copying German cameras, though...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:51:31 AM by LDS »

scarbo

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2013, 02:34:11 PM »
Probably none, because they figured out that they cannot prevent clones long ago, less so if they aren't 1:1 optical copies.
Of course Unless covered by a patent, but the rt protocol wouldn't fall under that as the Samba folk reverse engineering Microsoft's network protocol showed. But Canon could converse with their technicians to add a (stronger) protocol encryption next time...
Microsoft was forced to open its protocols by antitrust investigations. But look at how Apple is protecting every patent it can enforce, even silly ones - but it sees Samsung as a real issue to its revenues. Maybe Canon thinks it would cost much more than lost revenues, especially since it's a Chinese manufacturer, and without an US or Japanese company to go after it could be very difficult to sue them. although this is really a 1:1 copy looking exactly the same, and I guess this is a real infringement of many copyright rules.
Encrypting the protocol won't help much unless you can protect encryption keys strongly - you need anti-tamper hardware to do it, but it can be broken as well if you can access that hardware (as the PS3 protection was broken). Also stronger encryption needs more powerful chips to be performed on-the-fly, and they could be more power hungry.
Anyway I don't like copies, no matter how much cheaper they are - copying is far less expensive than developing from scratch - and it's not compatibility, which is something different. It is true that Canon started copying German cameras, though...

Samsung is a South Korean company.

Also, I'm sceptical this Yongnuo transmitter is real. It has been suggested that it might be fake.

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2013, 02:34:11 PM »

BoneDoc

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2013, 02:37:23 PM »
I have 2 600 RT, but would love to add a cheaper version of it :)

Jamesy

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2013, 11:28:47 AM »
It would be badass if you could have the benefits of the MC2 built-in to the FlexTT5, but then Speedlite users would complain that they're paying for something they don't need. Kinda like the "I don't need video on an SLR" whiners ;D. At least Pocket Wizard gives you the option of adding on studio light power control to its existing receivers with the MC2. Pretty cool!


Actually, the MC2 is really a dedicated unit.  It plugs right into the top of the E640, using the same pin connections as PCB's CyberSync unit.



But the AC9 is an add-on to the regular receiver.  The MC2 is a nice deal, in that it's standalone and costs $100, whereas to integrate an AB/WL monolight into the PW system, you need a FlexTT5 and an AC9, which will run about $275.   That means for existing PW users, getting an Einstein is cheaper than a B1600, and less than $50 more than a B800.

What are you using to trigger the MC2? I know there is a Paul C Buff Commander system that also allows remote power up/down from a central position too.

LDS

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2013, 12:05:37 PM »
Samsung is a South Korean company.
It has a US branch - which has to comply with US laws - you can sue (and any outcome is valid only there). If it had not one, just reseller, you could sue resellers maybe, but you can't sue a foreign company in your country, you may have to call in WTO or the like, but a court jurisdiction can't go beyond a nation borders, some agreements may let you to do something more, but it works in systems like the EU or the like.
Here in Italy Turin court tried to judge a Chinese company for selling counterfeit goods - it has to ask the Chinese company to declare a domicile in Italy for the purpose, because the laws requires it - you can guess what the answer was...

If it's a fake of course Canon doesn't matter - but if it was not, it could be difficult to enforce IP protection in some countries.

Marsu42

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2013, 03:49:18 PM »
http://flashhavoc.com/yongnuo-yn-e3-rt-released-yn-600ex-rt-coming/
Probably none, because they figured out that they cannot prevent clones long ago, less so if they aren't 1:1 optical copies.
Of course Unless covered by a patent, but the rt protocol wouldn't fall under that as the Samba folk reverse engineering Microsoft's network protocol showed. But Canon could converse with their technicians to add a (stronger) protocol encryption next time...

Microsoft was forced to open its protocols by antitrust investigations.


Yes, but Samba reverse engineered most of the protocol way before that decision, btw ignoring legal threats and obstruction from Microsoft... but to no avail, the bottom line is: If you buy a product, you are allowed to look at what it does - unless you remove a copy protection, but this is neither the Case in the Samba or Yongnuo case.

Some companies are preventing you to exercise these rights by dodgy licenses, but to my knowledge "just use it, but don't look at or inside it or sell it on" clauses are invalidated in court at least in the EU. And in any case my 600rt didn't include a license agreement limiting what I can to with it.

pwp

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2013, 06:43:52 PM »
It would be badass if you could have the benefits of the MC2 built-in to the FlexTT5, but then Speedlite users would complain that they're paying for something they don't need. Kinda like the "I don't need video on an SLR" whiners ;D. At least Pocket Wizard gives you the option of adding on studio light power control to its existing receivers with the MC2. Pretty cool!


Actually, the MC2 is really a dedicated unit.  It plugs right into the top of the E640, using the same pin connections as PCB's CyberSync unit.



But the AC9 is an add-on to the regular receiver.  The MC2 is a nice deal, in that it's standalone and costs $100, whereas to integrate an AB/WL monolight into the PW system, you need a FlexTT5 and an AC9, which will run about $275.   That means for existing PW users, getting an Einstein is cheaper than a B1600, and less than $50 more than a B800.

What are you using to trigger the MC2? I know there is a Paul C Buff Commander system that also allows remote power up/down from a central position too.

With my 6 head Einstein setup I use the PCB CyberSync system. It's easiest to trigger them with the tiny, "dumb" hot-shoe mounted CST trigger http://www.paulcbuff.com/cst.php and keep the CyberCommander separate to control everything on your Einsteins. http://www.paulcbuff.com/cc.php . It is hot-shoe mountable at a pinch, but I find it cumbersome on the hot-shoe. On a technical multi-light shoot, I keep the CyberCommander on a lanyard around my neck or blu-tacked to the top deck of my MacBookPro if shooting tethered. You can control up to 16 Einsteins with one of these gadgets. The CyberCommander is very functional but the interface has been designed by geeky engineers. It's not always intuitive...light years from a Johnny Ive design in this respect! It did my head in when I first got it but perfectly fine now.

-pw

cayenne

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2013, 09:31:05 AM »

With my 6 head Einstein setup I use the PCB CyberSync system. It's easiest to trigger them with the tiny, "dumb" hot-shoe mounted CST trigger http://www.paulcbuff.com/cst.php and keep the CyberCommander separate to control everything on your Einsteins. http://www.paulcbuff.com/cc.php . It is hot-shoe mountable at a pinch, but I find it cumbersome on the hot-shoe. On a technical multi-light shoot, I keep the CyberCommander on a lanyard around my neck or blu-tacked to the top deck of my MacBookPro if shooting tethered. You can control up to 16 Einsteins with one of these gadgets. The CyberCommander is very functional but the interface has been designed by geeky engineers. It's not always intuitive...light years from a Johnny Ive design in this respect! It did my head in when I first got it but perfectly fine now.

-pw


Thanks for the info!!

Just curious, within that setup...is there also a way to set up and use canon 600RT speedlights? I was just thinking of getting into some studio strobes, but cannot afford to buy more than one at a time, over time...and would need to integrate them at first shooting with my two 600 RTs....

Thanks in advance,

cayenne

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2013, 09:31:05 AM »

arcanej

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2013, 01:53:07 PM »
You can mix-and-match Einsteins and 600-RTs. Mount your ST-E3-RT on your camera and connect your Cyber Commander to your camera with a PC sync cable.

Marsu42

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2013, 11:56:50 AM »
Any news on this?

Now that I know the transmitter is coming, I'm really keen on it because I cannot use the 600rt's af assist if it's on a flash bracket, a 2nd 600rt just for af assist is overkill and the -3LV af capability of the 6d is worth little if it's slow as hell (at least on my 100L).

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Re: Yongnuo's 600-exrt compatinle transmitter!
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2013, 11:56:50 AM »