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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]  (Read 127837 times)

mkabi

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2013, 12:17:49 AM »
Yeah, I don't know... why would they create something that would be equal to or better than the 5D mark iii and/or 1DX and price it lower than those 2?

Defeats the purpose...
Bah...

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2013, 12:17:49 AM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2013, 12:36:40 AM »
Just calculated that wow 8mp display.  Only if tv would catch up to laptop display resolutions we could then really take advantage of the high end MP camera...

there is already so many pixels combined and compressed to get it on a display now...

look at the new Microsoft surface 1920x1080 or 2mp in 10 in screen convert that to to my 55" screen I would have 10,560x 5940 or  about 62MP screen at 55", now that would be a screen instead of the minor 4k update everyone's worried about.

I can't wait until they bump monitor res way up.
And go oled for super deep blacks and 10bits to make up for needing more tones for such high DR displays.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: October 28, 2013, 12:42:09 AM »
"Innovative video features"

lol yeah maybe 2 years later with ML hacks.

unless its 4K its DOA.

JB

how many people will have 4k able displays in 2 years?

4k is just another marketing gimmick to pull money from the noobs.
in my opinion you need a 60+ inch display or 4k is useless.

or maybe it is just me?
but from normal viewing distance i would hardly see a difference on a 46 inch display.
i have tested this in our local high end hifi/tv store.



just you

come on even on a 10" ipad regular vs 'retina' makes all the difference in the world, when I look at 2k on my 24" it looks hideously block after using my retina ipad for a while and it sure as heck shows hideously less detail than a 24" print!! Seriously did you ever hear anyone say that there is no point printing unless you print 60" or larger because you won't see the extra detail anyway? no?  well the same should apply to displays.

the whole nonsene about needing huge screens to see 4k is old wives tale garbage, some of the same people said the exact same thing about 1080P!

oh and ever notice how crappy video games look if you turn off AA even if you are running 2k at 24"? yeah that is because 2k is freaking LOW res even on a 24" screen never mind a 48 or 60". Does a 2k 55" screen seem like looking out a window or watching a sporting event in the stands? no? yeah because 2k is LOW res for that size.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: October 28, 2013, 12:43:48 AM »
"Innovative video features"

lol yeah maybe 2 years later with ML hacks.

unless its 4K its DOA.

JB

Maybe. But if it's a pro-oriented camera, I think decent codecs would go farther than some kind of ultra-compressed 4K. If you acquire in 4K with the intent of downsizing to 1080p, you can get some of the advantages a better 1080p codec might have provided, even if the 4K source file isn't ideally compressed-- but you can't fully compensate for the real deal.

Rumors a while back talked about 60fps RAW bursts, which would be "innovative" in a Canon body, and would serve, within limitations, to offer both a 4K+ spec and a RAW video spec, with some slow-motion applications adding to the appeal. That sounds intriguing, but I think both Panasonic and Sony are going to continue to up the ante in the $2000-$5000 range, so hopefully there's more.

If the Cinema EOS line is upgraded at some point in early 2014, that opens the door for a 7D Mark II with relatively fewer artificially crippled functions. The C500 mk ii will probably remain Canon's only RAW option for real 4K and slow-motion recording, but the C300 follow-up could get 4K with a good codec to CF cards, and more frame rate options; and the C100 successor might get 4K with a lesser codec, or maybe 2K output with the original C300's broadcast-ready codec, and 4K available to an external recorder. All of that seems reasonable. It's conservative enough to fit Canon's attitude but aggressive enough to remain broadly competitive with more spec-rich options from RED, Sony and even Black Magic.

That might open up the 7D Mark II to real 1080p recording-- e.g. sample the whole sensor, put it in a 10-bit codec, etc. That would leave 4K to the Cinema cams but provide a C300-level HD image on a DSLR-- something Canon doesn't come close to providing now in the regular pro DSLRS, and that it only comes sort of close to even with the 1D-C. If it included a 60fps RAW burst, 1080p with a great codec and sampling, 1D-series frame rate and AF and a great build... I'd probably pay $2500 even if the still quality is only on par with Canon's other APS-C sensors. If it's actually a stop better, I'd be pumped. Granted, I'm someone who shoots both stills and video, so my video zeal is surely swaying my enthusiasm.

5D3 ML RAW video sets a high bar, they can't hold back on the next DSLR and play more silly internal market segmentation games otherwise they will get eaten up by the outside market

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: October 28, 2013, 12:45:44 AM »
"Innovative video features"

lol yeah maybe 2 years later with ML hacks.

unless its 4K its DOA.

JB

how many people will have 4k able displays in 2 years?

4k is just another marketing gimmick to pull money from the noobs.
in my opinion you need a 60+ inch display or 4k is useless.

or maybe it is just me?
but from normal viewing distance i would hardly see a difference on a 46 inch display.
i have tested this in our local high end hifi/tv store.


nice read:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/

Ever seen a 4k display?

did you read my posting before making that lame comment?  ;)
i guess not.

Quote
  A 30 inch on your desk is shocking in its detail.

oh so you are filming for your PC monitor... that does not have 4k resolution either.

and i thought most of these high-end, high-res videos will be watched on TV.  ;)

but yes when i, one day, have the bandwith i may enjoy 4k youtube files on my 30 inch 4096×2304 pixel monitor... from 50 cm away.
if... NEC or EIZO will make a 4k 30 inch monitor that doesn´t cost 8000 euro.  ;D

still.. 4k will be useless for the majority.
in the link i posted the author describes why.. better then i could with my broken english.

that cnet guy has no clue
it's not like they are true experts, the real experts are actual engineers/scientists/etc.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2013, 12:48:17 AM »
I was referring to a 4k Enso we have at work.

1080p is really poor resolution.  Would you create an 18x12 print from a highly compressed 2MP source and be happy viewing it from 20 inches away?

Exactly, it's so funny that 90% of the crowd going on about how you need lie a 75" screen to even see 1080p nevermind 4k then turn around and laugh at people who view images on monitors and say that you need to print and then most print on 19"-24" printers! Umm what? It doesn't compute. So 1080p is already far too much overkill for a 24"-30" monitor because 1080p is a 'waste' below 55" and yet don't dare ever view images on a monitor because they are not crisp like a good 19" print LOL! At least pick one story and stick to it.


renegade54

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2013, 12:55:55 AM »
Scepticism aside, I wonder how Canon will be able to place a 7D MkII in its current product line?

+1

With FF cameras now selling for $1700-2000, I just don't see Canon coming up with a 7DII.
There's just no place in the lineup for it.


it has a place....because none of the FF options have anywhere near the fps the 7d2 will have.  the 7d2 is not for me by any means, but, it will be for a lot of people (sports, wildlife, etc, etc)

Correct me if I'm wrong Chuck, but don't you mean to add....."it has a place....because none of the FF options have anywhere near the fps the 7d2 will have...in this price range"? 

As far as x-vision and Traveller's comments go, I think the success of the 7d says all one needs to know about it's place in the Canon lineup.  The 7d has developed a huge following and the 70d is nothing less than a gateway camera into the 7d.  All those folks that dropped $1100 on the 70d will no doubt lust after the 7d2, as I am sure Canon hopes.  The only worry I have is that no camera could possibly live up to this much hype; even if the hype is driven by the market as opposed to the company.  Canon has to acknowledge the expectations it is placing on itself regarding the 7d2 with the 7d passing 4 years of service.  While my expectations are certainly high for the 7d2 I do not think it will disappoint me; but I am not expecting a mini 1DX, as some folks do either.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 12:57:40 AM by renegade54 »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2013, 12:55:55 AM »

RGomezPhotos

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: October 28, 2013, 01:27:59 AM »
Yup.  As mentioned before.  A mini-1DX.

While I think the specs are totally doable, I certainly don't think the price is.  Except for the crop-sensor, it's as good if not better than a 1DX.  I think IQ is SO GOOD on crop sensors these days, the absolute need for FF is becoming less and less.  I think they would leave out the 2nd slot.  Because that's a 'Pro' feature.

It would cost AT LEAST $3k.  Even at that price, it would be a HOT seller.  Especially for the action-oriented.

I think it would eat SOME of the 1DX market, but not much.  They'd lose some sales on the top, but more than make up for it at the bottom.  In the end, they'd make more sales and profit.  After all, Rebels is where Canon makes the big money on DSLR sales.  That's why they come out with a new Rebel every year...

March would be a good time.  I would expect their big MP camera to arrive shortly thereafter.  It's going to be an awesome 2014 for Canon   ;)
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: October 28, 2013, 02:33:07 AM »
The 7D is now in the actual cash back system from Canon.

It´s realistic, that the 7D Mark II appear between 02-2014 and 05-2014.

There are three different prototypes out for testing with two different sensors. One prototype don´t have WIFI and GPS in it.

Stewart K

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: October 28, 2013, 02:35:58 AM »
The 7D is the flagship of the APS-C range, so I can’t see the Mkii having a FF sensor, it does, however; need to better the 70D spec wise or what’s the point.  Canon should be looking at using their flagship APS-C as the ideal place for something brand new, this will then filter down through the range in years to come, personally I think we may be in for a nice surprise with the final spec’s of this model.
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9VIII

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: October 28, 2013, 03:31:40 AM »
"Innovative video features"

lol yeah maybe 2 years later with ML hacks.

unless its 4K its DOA.

JB

how many people will have 4k able displays in 2 years?

4k is just another marketing gimmick to pull money from the noobs.
in my opinion you need a 60+ inch display or 4k is useless.

or maybe it is just me?
but from normal viewing distance i would hardly see a difference on a 46 inch display.
i have tested this in our local high end hifi/tv store.


nice read:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57491766-221/why-4k-tvs-are-stupid-still/

As mentioned, people who say 4K is too much resolution are just kidding themselves, and/or click fishing by posting controversial articles.
The one concession I can make is that if all you're looking at is horribly blurry, shaky cam hollywood garbage (usually rendered in 2K) then of course you can't see the difference. If you're actually looking at something with a lot of detail the difference will be dramatic.

How many MP is 4k?

2K video is 1920x1080
4K video is 3840x2160
8K video is 7680x4320

When I first saw 4K video (about 4 years ago) the quality of it just blew me away... even though we had to display it on a 2x2 matrix of monitors... 8K video is even better, you even have sharp detail right up close to the displays... but at this point we seem to be hitting the law of diminishing returns. Personally I would say 4K video is twice as good as 2K, but there is no way I would say 8K video is twice as good as 4K.... 4K seems to be the sweet spot...

Affordable cameras with 4K video? Keep in mind that a GoPro shoots 4K video at 15fps and stores it on a micro-sd card.... I wonder what a pair of Digic5+ can do....

I'm convinced that 8K is still nowhere close to perfectly reproducing a slice of the vision of the average human. It would be interesting to compare some 30" prints at varying resolutions and see what people prefer on those.
We already have everything we need to run 4K so that's a shoe in, but 8K is... a bit more bandwidth intensive. As soon as we have all the right technology in place I think 8K will be the standard resolution for the rest of the century.

drjlo

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2013, 04:05:37 AM »
Will 7D II be that mythical Canon product that outperforms (admittedly low) expectations, especially regarding sensor performance?

I have my doubts  :-X


Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2013, 04:27:10 AM »
Will 7D II be that mythical Canon product that outperforms (admittedly low) expectations, especially regarding sensor performance?

Current crop sensor performance is not problem at all _in_good_light_ so if the 7d2 is really an 1d-style sealed body with af performance and firmware features of 5d3 or better tons of people will buy it just for the 1.6x crop factor.

For not so good light and the best iq esp. above iso 1600 no current crop sensor can compete with a ff, not Sony, not Nikon, not Canon - so this is hardly something to complain about.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2013, 04:27:10 AM »

Woody

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2013, 05:31:52 AM »
For not so good light and the best iq esp. above iso 1600 no current crop sensor can compete with a ff, not Sony, not Nikon, not Canon - so this is hardly something to complain about.

I think most people are looking at the low ISO dynamic range numbers very closely... :D

TrabimanUK

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2013, 06:05:14 AM »
All we need now is the 100-400mm MK2 to be announced at the same time and then Atlantis will probably rise from the oceans  ;)

Saying that, for $2000, so probably £2000 (as they like to overcharge us in the UK), I'd settle for a camera with those kind of specs and happily put up with a new member of the European Union rising from the sea.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 07:04:39 AM by TrabimanUK »
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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2013, 06:05:14 AM »