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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]  (Read 42435 times)

rowlandw

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2013, 09:31:42 PM »
Digic 5?  Isn't Digic 6 out already?

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2013, 09:31:42 PM »

surapon

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2013, 09:42:13 PM »
Yeah, I don't know... why would they create something that would be equal to or better than the 5D mark iii and/or 1DX and price it lower than those 2?

Defeats the purpose...


+1 for me too, Dear Mkabi
The Japanese MFG. are the Smart Companies  in the Word, And They will not "  why would they create something that would be equal to or better than the 5D mark iii and/or 1DX and price it lower than those 2?.
Yes I am agree wit you 250%.
Thanks
Surapon

Here is another thought: because the cannot? And because nobody can?

Dear Sir, Mr. Pi.
I love your great Words " Here is another thought: because the cannot? And because nobody can?"----
If Canon were American Company, Yes, They Will, Because American Company try the Best way to improve their Products---And Get Rid of their Old Models.
But Japanese company are Behind American Companies in The way to do  Business( for 30-50 years behind), And Because the Old time thinking, The Japanese Companies, Never Kill the Best Selling products such as 5D MK III and 1Dx----That Why in my Thinking ( Just my Stupid Idea), The 7D MK II should be 20 MP, and 10 FPS. Only----Below the 5D MK III and 1DX.
Yes, Sir, Canon invent 100 MP sensor 3 years ago, But They still hold on their Inventor, Let us us/ Buy only 22.5 MP cameras-----Ha, Ha, Ha, And Let Nikon Give us  the New Camera 36 MP last year ( ?).
Nice to talk to you , Sir.
Surapon

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2013, 10:06:37 PM »
I remember someone saying change the card slot to SD....the worse idea I've head this thread, cf all the way I want my buffer clear asap....

also usb3 or better yet gig Ethernet jack to get my files off.

You realize that the SD cards available today are faster than the Compact Flash cards were when the 7D came out :) and of course the compact flash of today are even faster...  As someone with a bunch of fast SD cards, let me add my name to the list of people who would prefer a compact flash slot over an SD slot...

I can't see GigE connectivity on a camera.... consumers like wireless... the throughput of wireless is laughable compared to GigE, but wireless is more convenient... so the poorer solution wins... USB3 has to come soon, at some point people will stop making chipsets that only go up to USB2... USB will win out over Ethernet because all you have to do is plug it in.... no configuration required, and a lot of people use laptops and tablets with no wired Ethernet connection... USB is a more universal solution than wired Ethernet.

Almost all the new test equipment at the lab where I work has GigE interfaces... you can talk to it from anywhere.... way more flexible than dedicated cables... Personally, I would like to see it on a camera, but I doubt the masses are ready yet.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:10:11 PM by Don Haines »
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9VIII

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2013, 10:53:01 PM »
In my opinion, Canon ha to many camera models. They lack Steve Jobs mind person who returned to Apple and get rid of many computer models but produced few which are very well known. It would be fully sufficient to have 3 models only: 1Dx - for real professional photographers, 5DIII  - wedding photographers camera and 7DII - crop sized 1Dx. Get rid of rebels and p&s crap (p&s market will be dead in few years). Canon should put more efforts on mirrorless cameras' line (currently they are significantly behind competitors).

Both Canon and Nikon have directly said that they will move focus more toward low end products (Rebel/Dxxxx).
It's been pointed out several times already, the high end market is saturated, and the P&S market is shrinking fast. If there's any growth (or, less shrinking) to be had it's in the range between the two.
And really the only difference between Canons current high end line and the one you suggest is the 6D, which seems to be almost universally praised.
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Zv

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #154 on: October 29, 2013, 12:40:26 AM »
In my opinion, Canon ha to many camera models. They lack Steve Jobs mind person who returned to Apple and get rid of many computer models but produced few which are very well known. It would be fully sufficient to have 3 models only: 1Dx - for real professional photographers, 5DIII  - wedding photographers camera and 7DII - crop sized 1Dx. Get rid of rebels and p&s crap (p&s market will be dead in few years). Canon should put more efforts on mirrorless cameras' line (currently they are significantly behind competitors).

Both Canon and Nikon have directly said that they will move focus more toward low end products (Rebel/Dxxxx).
It's been pointed out several times already, the high end market is saturated, and the P&S market is shrinking fast. If there's any growth (or, less shrinking) to be had it's in the range between the two.
And really the only difference between Canons current high end line and the one you suggest is the 6D, which seems to be almost universally praised.

Also, not everyone can afford a 7D2 at $2000. There will always be a demand for the consumer low priced level tech. Beginners, amateurs, moms and dads, hiking trips and just general purpose stuff where folk want something decent but without the high cost.
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photo212

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #155 on: October 29, 2013, 01:20:36 AM »
Canon really needs to get this update out there. the 7D is ancient technology by comparable standards. Good camera/sensor, but so many others have passed it by. Hard to purchase something so old knowing Canon has to be considering a replacement soon.

Rebels are fine for those not torturing their camera equipment. I just would not trust a Rebel in harsh weather or the abuse of man-handling it. What is left for the wildlife or sports photographer that benefits from the cropped sensor?

The GPS and Wifi thing is not a necessity. In fact, I'm more than likely disabling both features should I ever finally get a chance to upgrade my 50D and 40D. I'd rather have a tight body that can hold up to the rigors of weather and abuse than external communication without wires or a pack on the bottom.

sanj

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #156 on: October 29, 2013, 02:34:08 AM »
that would also negatively affect 6D, 5DIII and 1dX sales.

How?


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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #156 on: October 29, 2013, 02:34:08 AM »

TrabimanUK

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #157 on: October 29, 2013, 04:08:26 AM »
One thing that I notice is mising from the "spec list" and that no-one seems to have picked up on, which IMHO is Canon's greatest development in the past 10-20 years - the lockable Mode Dial!

Fit one of those and I'm sold!  ;)
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Marsu42

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #158 on: October 29, 2013, 04:17:21 AM »
One thing that I notice is mising from the "spec list" and that no-one seems to have picked up on, which IMHO is Canon's greatest development in the past 10-20 years - the lockable Mode Dial! Fit one of those and I'm sold!  ;)

No way, you're missing out on the latest and greatest Canon development, featured in the otherwise under-spec'ed 6d: you can now play mp3 music files along your in-camera slideshow! If this is ported to the 7d2, Canon doesn't need to worry about sensor performance and similar hogwash :-p

GMCPhotographics

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #159 on: October 29, 2013, 05:15:33 AM »
One thing that I notice is mising from the "spec list" and that no-one seems to have picked up on, which IMHO is Canon's greatest development in the past 10-20 years - the lockable Mode Dial!

Fit one of those and I'm sold!  ;)

Funny thing is that both my A1 and AE-1 program cameras have lockable mode dials. The later EOS 650 cameras has their mode dial pointing towards the photographer...so the lock aspect wasn't needed. When we went digital, Canon seemed to loose this feature....only to re-implement it back again on the 60D after a lot of complaints (ie 5 years at least). It was available as a cost upgrade on a 7D and 5DII models.

stefsan

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #160 on: October 29, 2013, 06:48:04 AM »
Very Good ISO performance would be an upgrade for me (assuming that means at least one and possibly two stops lower noise)

That's a very optimistic interpretation of 'very good ISO performance'.  A full stop improvement would be a significant jump in technology (especially if it was a 24 MP sensor).  Two stops would be groundbreaking.  Not going to say it's impossible, but making a crop sensor with better ISO performance than the best full frame sensors would be huge, and it wouldn't be premiered on a $2000 camera.

Given that the 7D has about 40% QE, a 2 stop improvement of the (photon) noise would mean 160% QE, enough to earn Canon a Nobel prize, and shake the foundations of physics.

I don't need them to find new physics and win a Nobel Prize (I wouldn't complain if they did) but getting rid of that annoying banding noise the 7D sensor produces would count almost as much for me  8) 
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bseitz234

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2013, 08:43:43 AM »
I remember someone saying change the card slot to SD....the worse idea I've head this thread, cf all the way I want my buffer clear asap....

also usb3 or better yet gig Ethernet jack to get my files off.

I can't see GigE connectivity on a camera.... consumers like wireless... the throughput of wireless is laughable compared to GigE, but wireless is more convenient... so the poorer solution wins... USB3 has to come soon, at some point people will stop making chipsets that only go up to USB2... USB will win out over Ethernet because all you have to do is plug it in.... no configuration required, and a lot of people use laptops and tablets with no wired Ethernet connection... USB is a more universal solution than wired Ethernet.

I can't speak from experience, as I haven't made the leap yet, but I understand 802.11ac is actually starting to approach the real-world throughput of gigE. While I doubt they'd put an ac antenna array in the 7d2 for space and power reasons, they COULD get the throughput if they wanted.

Also, given that Apple's target market for laptops correlates pretty strongly with pro and prosumer camera buyers, I think a thunderbolt / USB3 combo would be awesome- USB3 for PC users, TB for mac...
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roguewave

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
Given that the 7D has about 40% QE, a 2 stop improvement of the (photon) noise would mean 160% QE, enough to earn Canon a Nobel prize, and shake the foundations of physics.

Pardon my ignorance in physics... are you saying that 7D's sensor is only about 1 stop short of the theoretical limit so in practice it's impossible to improve the low-light sensitivity of APS-C sized sensors any further than t 1/3 - 1/2 stop? Or are there other factors involved? Of course, I mean sensors with the same resolution, not a 3MP sensor with huge pixels :-).

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »

Pi

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2013, 10:15:19 AM »
Given that the 7D has about 40% QE, a 2 stop improvement of the (photon) noise would mean 160% QE, enough to earn Canon a Nobel prize, and shake the foundations of physics.

Pardon my ignorance in physics... are you saying that 7D's sensor is only about 1 stop short of the theoretical limit so in practice it's impossible to improve the low-light sensitivity of APS-C sized sensors any further than t 1/3 - 1/2 stop? Or are there other factors involved? Of course, I mean sensors with the same resolution, not a 3MP sensor with huge pixels :-).

Pixels do not matter. The modern sensors with Bayer design have around 50% QE; the 7D has about 40%, see sensorgen. There is about 1 stop left; in practice, 1/2 or so. Lowering the read noise would improve the shadows a bit more but Canon is not worse there at high ISO than any other manufacturer (at high ISO).

The QE is computed on the green channel, I believe. Non-Bayer design would improve that even further but right now, the technology for that does not exist even though there are some good ideas. The foveon sensor is actually worse at high ISO and has poor color fidelity.

roguewave

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2013, 10:40:37 AM »
Pixels do not matter. The modern sensors with Bayer design have around 50% QE; the 7D has about 40%, see sensorgen. There is about 1 stop left; in practice, 1/2 or so. Lowering the read noise would improve the shadows a bit more but Canon is not worse there at high ISO than any other manufacturer (at high ISO).

The QE is computed on the green channel, I believe. Non-Bayer design would improve that even further but right now, the technology for that does not exist even though there are some good ideas. The foveon sensor is actually worse at high ISO and has poor color fidelity.

Thanks for the explanation! If that's the case though, what kind of "Very good ISO performance" is expected according to this rumour?

Also, why is it that pixel size does not matter? I believe a lower resolution sensor of the same physical size would have proportionally larger photosites, which would exhibit less noise by gathering larger amount of light.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]
« Reply #164 on: October 29, 2013, 10:40:37 AM »