Canon 60D v. Nikon D7000

[urkel]

Here are my PERSONAL opinions and I hope I don't offend anyone with it.

I hope not too...but looking at your list, are those points in comparison to the 7D, or do some of them apply to the D7000?

Oh, im just griping about everything.  This is part of the decision process for me.

Anyway, it looks like I may be sticking with Canon for another more generation. As much as I'm "willing" to switch, after doing the math on what it will cost to get me the equivalent Nikon setup then I'll stick with my more affordable Canon lenses.


Nikon 24-70 f2.8 - $1700 new / $1500 used
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $425 new / $375 used
Nikon NB600 - $215 new

Since I'm more of a poser than a Pro then I'm just going to stick with the lenses I got and get a 60D. It's not perfect, but an articulating screen on a DSLR is something that I feel may be underhyped.

BTW. One thing to note about the 60D's shortcomings is that several of these "missing features" are firmware fixable. So as much as people hate complainers, whining does serve a purpose here because 60D vs D7000 comparisons can swing back to Canon's favor if they unlock some of the stuff they intentionally crippled.

EDIT:
Got to check out the 60D again at Best Buy and found two nice things that I missed.
1) As someone stated earlier, manual control in Video is just a menu click away
2) ISO limiting like on Canon. It's something I loved about Nikon and was missing on the 7D. But here it is.

[DarStone]

This is an interesting post with a lot of varying opinions, but I'd say you should really try both camera's hands on before making a choice. If you purely go by spec's the new Nikon might seem like the clear winner, but feature don't always make for a great product.

I admit I was a bit disappointed with the announced spec's of the 60D, but I have invested in canon for a few years now (meaning I have lenses and such) so I thought I'd give the 60D a try. I recieved it this Wednesday and I have to say it's a really nice camera, it's solidly built even though it's not like my 7D it's not a Rebel either. The Camera is very well balanced even with heavy lenses, and feels really good in hand. It's also a very accurate camera, I shot a wedding with it yesterday and must say I'm really impressed with the way it handled and the pictures I got even in lowlight. It seems like Canon tweaked the AF system from the 40D and 50D I've shot both and the 60D is a lot better, it's actually pretty close to the 7D, and maybe a little brighter.

Anyway as I said earlier the only real way to know which one is right for you is to go play with them both, and what ever you decide you'll have a great camera and a real upgrade from your S3

[paeataa]

This is an interesting post with a lot of varying opinions, but I'd say you should really try both camera's hands on before making a choice. If you purely go by spec's the new Nikon might seem like the clear winner, but feature don't always make for a great product.

I admit I was a bit disappointed with the announced spec's of the 60D, but I have invested in canon for a few years now (meaning I have lenses and such) so I thought I'd give the 60D a try. I recieved it this Wednesday and I have to say it's a really nice camera, it's solidly built even though it's not like my 7D it's not a Rebel either. The Camera is very well balanced even with heavy lenses, and feels really good in hand. It's also a very accurate camera, I shot a wedding with it yesterday and must say I'm really impressed with the way it handled and the pictures I got even in lowlight. It seems like Canon tweaked the AF system from the 40D and 50D I've shot both and the 60D is a lot better, it's actually pretty close to the 7D, and maybe a little brighter.

Anyway as I said earlier the only real way to know which one is right for you is to go play with them both, and what ever you decide you'll have a great camera and a real upgrade from your S3

Thanks! That's what I planned to do too. I'm waiting until both 60D and D7000 are available at camera shops so that I can try them out.

Would you be willing to share some photos taken with your 60D with us to see how the camera produces?

[DarStone]

Okay here is a link to some quick reference shots taken with the 60D, nothing special I usually shoot leaves and ropes to get an idea of AF Accuracy and Clarity, plus I shot these with a Nifty Fifty 50mm 1.8 Canon Lens, and a Sigma 50-200mm HSM OS lens ($159.00 retail) to give you an idea of what options you might start off with.

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbharris3/Canon60DQuickReferenceShots#

[StepBack]

I'm not going to repeat the objections. But I will add that Canon is putting to rest the DIGIC 4. So for new buyers to this level of camera it may not be so important whether which camera has more AF points or which is qualitatively better based on specs alone. What Canon may be doing is saying to present midrange owners that the next gen of FF and prosumers will have a new processor. And that's where the difference comes in. The AF, metering and chip are what makes the thing go. You don't go anywhere w/o the engine. And no one is able to scientifically compare the chips because they don't have the equipment. The test shots I've seen are just for arguments sake. The argument is moot.

[urkel]

The AF, metering and chip are what makes the thing go. You don't go anywhere w/o the engine. And no one is able to scientifically compare the chips because they don't have the equipment. The test shots I've seen are just for arguments sake. The argument is moot.

And whats the argument?

[anthony11]

Oh, im just griping about everything.  This is part of the decision process for me.

Been there, still doing that

Anyway, it looks like I may be sticking with Canon for another more generation. As much as I'm "willing" to switch, after doing the math on what it will cost to get me the equivalent Nikon setup then I'll stick with my more affordable Canon lenses.
Nikon 24-70 f2.8 - $1700 new / $1500 used
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $425 new / $375 used

Hrrm, $350-ish (21%) more for the 24-70, $75 more for the 50.  Annoying, but adding up the percentage difference of a whole setup, I'm not so sure that the gap is a gating factor any more.  Before Canon's 20% yen/dollar markup it was bigger.

BTW. One thing to note about the 60D's shortcomings is that several of these "missing features" are firmware fixable. So as much as people hate complainers, whining does serve a purpose here because 60D vs D7000 comparisons can swing back to Canon's favor if they unlock some of the stuff they intentionally crippled.

In theory, yeah, but yet the 5D2 still lacks a wider EC range than +/- 2 stops, lacks 5-exposure bracketing, lacks aperture bracketing.  Those are all straightforward to code, yet Canon can't be bothered.

[dilbert]

Oh, im just griping about everything.  This is part of the decision process for me.

Been there, still doing that

Anyway, it looks like I may be sticking with Canon for another more generation. As much as I'm "willing" to switch, after doing the math on what it will cost to get me the equivalent Nikon setup then I'll stick with my more affordable Canon lenses.
Nikon 24-70 f2.8 - $1700 new / $1500 used
Nikon 50mm f1.4 - $425 new / $375 used

Hrrm, $350-ish (21%) more for the 24-70, $75 more for the 50.  Annoying, but adding up the percentage difference of a whole setup, I'm not so sure that the gap is a gating factor any more.  Before Canon's 20% yen/dollar markup it was bigger.

BTW. One thing to note about the 60D's shortcomings is that several of these "missing features" are firmware fixable. So as much as people hate complainers, whining does serve a purpose here because 60D vs D7000 comparisons can swing back to Canon's favor if they unlock some of the stuff they intentionally crippled.

In theory, yeah, but yet the 5D2 still lacks a wider EC range than +/- 2 stops, lacks 5-exposure bracketing, lacks aperture bracketing.  Those are all straightforward to code, yet Canon can't be bothered.

The 5-shot thing is probably because most people with the 5D2 don't need/use bracketing because they prefer to "get the shot in one."

You can't just "add" +/-1 EV because things like the LCD screen on top and electronic display inside the viewfinder have +2..-2 hard coded into the device.

But we don't need 5 exposure bracketing, just the +/-3 ... It's not hard to set the camera to a certain combination of settings and then just turn the dial 2 or 3 notches after every shot.

[neuroanatomist]

You can't just "add" +/-1 EV because things like the LCD screen on top and electronic display inside the viewfinder have +2..-2 hard coded into the device.

True.  But that wouldn't stop them from a firmware change to add my favorite new feature that's present in the T2i and 60D (and even in my PowerShot S95!), but not in the 7D...the ability to specify a maximum for Auto ISO.

[anthony11]

The 5-shot thing is probably because most people with the 5D2 don't need/use bracketing because they prefer to "get the shot in one."

It's mainly championed by the HDR crowd.

You can't just "add" +/-1 EV because things like the LCD screen on top and electronic display inside the viewfinder have +2..-2 hard coded into the device.

I could live with it blanking at +/- 3.  With bright backgrounds I find that +2 isn't always enough.

But we don't need 5 exposure bracketing, just the +/-3 ... It's not hard to set the camera to a certain combination of settings and then just turn the dial 2 or 3 notches after every shot.

Sounds like you should be shooting film with all-manual bodies.  Turning the dial takes time, and can result in orientation changes.  The HDR people really like being able to get five exposures in minimum time, without dicking with the rig in the middle.

[dilbert]

The 5-shot thing is probably because most people with the 5D2 don't need/use bracketing because they prefer to "get the shot in one."

It's mainly championed by the HDR crowd.

You can't just "add" +/-1 EV because things like the LCD screen on top and electronic display inside the viewfinder have +2..-2 hard coded into the device.

I could live with it blanking at +/- 3.  With bright backgrounds I find that +2 isn't always enough.

But we don't need 5 exposure bracketing, just the +/-3 ... It's not hard to set the camera to a certain combination of settings and then just turn the dial 2 or 3 notches after every shot.

Sounds like you should be shooting film with all-manual bodies.  Turning the dial takes time, and can result in orientation changes.  The HDR people really like being able to get five exposures in minimum time, without dicking with the rig in the middle.

You don't need 5 shots to do HDR, nor do you need +/-3.  On the weekend, someone had me hold their iPhone with HDR software loaded that used 2 photos for HDR. Personally, I find that very very few HDR photos look ok. Some folks like to do HDR with 1 "negative."

With +/-3, I'm surprised that people aren't asking for a 7 photo spread so that you get one photo every stop (-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3) but I suspect that people are thinking less about taking photos and more about comparing features for the sake of comparing features.

Whether or not +2 is enough really depends on how dark the darkest feature that you want detail from is relative to the brightest part of the picture.

If you're doing hand-held bracketing for HDR then unless your subject is evenly bright, you've got to shoot in "P" or shutter priority modes. In both of those cases, the aperture will vary and thus likely the sharpness of each frame will also be slightly different. If you're shooting in aperture priority and you're not wide open, you'll probably need a tripod for the +2 and that puts you outside of the "quick-HDR" crowd.

[Osiris30]

Have you had a chance to play with high-iso on the 60D... I'm starting to really believe the rumours of a tweaked sensor.  I was playing around at 6400 tonight and my mind is literally blown out the back of my skull. 

Either my 60D is the 'golden copy' or Canon really did a few little things no one noticed to their core tech.  The AF has been flawless some 4000 shots in now... I can count AF misses on one hand regardless of lens (even the troublesome 50 1... well maybe two hands, but really some of them are most likely my fault for getting sloppy. 

The 6400 iso stuff has a tonality to it that I can't believe (if I didn't see the EXIF and know what I shot it at I would have *sworn* it was 3200 iso tops).  Man I can't wait for proper reviews... For all the b*tching, moaning and complaining this is one hell of a little body.

Okay here is a link to some quick reference shots taken with the 60D, nothing special I usually shoot leaves and ropes to get an idea of AF Accuracy and Clarity, plus I shot these with a Nifty Fifty 50mm 1.8 Canon Lens, and a Sigma 50-200mm HSM OS lens ($159.00 retail) to give you an idea of what options you might start off with.

http://picasaweb.google.com/dbharris3/Canon60DQuickReferenceShots#

[ageha]

The 6400 iso stuff has a tonality to it that I can't believe (if I didn't see the EXIF and know what I shot it at I would have *sworn* it was 3200 iso tops).  Man I can't wait for proper reviews... For all the b*tching, moaning and complaining this is one hell of a little body.

I can only second that. So far I'm quite impressed too especially after I compared the results to a D700 side by side.

[unexposure]

I'm starting to really believe the rumours of a tweaked sensor....

These aren't Rumors, this is an official Canon-Statement.

[blufox]

Good to hear some positive impressions .

I am just waiting for 5dMKII successor, till then let me collect few more lenses.

Oh did I mention getting a 70-200 f4L IS tomorrow.. yay, bodies can be changed, lenses are the real thing to keep .