November 22, 2014, 07:20:50 PM

Author Topic: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever  (Read 28829 times)

Ricku

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« on: October 31, 2013, 12:49:48 PM »
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1339351

DxOmark just published the full Sony A7r sensor test. And according to their measuresand ranking system the camera scores the same points as the Nikon D800-D800E (and that for $500 less). And it literally kicks the Canon5DIII in the butt.

This is what DxO writes about the A7r:

“Although we can’t provide any commentary on image sharpness at this stage in our tests, the sensor in the Sony Alpha 7R performs exceptionally and is on a par with that found in the D800 models. Given the Sony’s small size, low weight and outstanding sensor performance, it’s one of the most intriguing and compelling new additions in recent times.”



Source: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1339351

Well played Sony! And thanks to the wonderful metabones adapter, I guess we could say that this really is the "Canon body" we have been waiting for. :D
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 12:55:26 PM by Ricku »

canon rumors FORUM

Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« on: October 31, 2013, 12:49:48 PM »

Drizzt321

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
    • Aaron Baff Photography
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 01:25:42 PM »
Ok, I'll be the first one to jump in. DxOMark. Ugh.

While some of their measurements are meaningful to me, the whole 'rescale to 8MP' for most of the measurements of the sensor is just...WTF?! Anyway...good for the bits that are useful.
5D mark 2, 5D mark 3, EF 17-40mm f/4L,  EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 85mm f/1.8
Film Cameras: Mamiya RB67, RB-50, RB-180-C, RB-90-C, RB-50, Perkeo I folder, Mamiya Six Folder (Pre-WWII model)
http://www.aaronbaff.com

mackguyver

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3017
  • Who Dares Wins
    • View Profile
    • My Personal Work
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 02:10:01 PM »
There's more to a camera than its sensor, check out The Phoblographer's list of complaints about this camera:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/10/30/finding-wrong-sony-a7-a7r-far/

I'd rather than 90% (or whatever percent is appropriate) the IQ 99% of the time vs. technically great stills that are out of focus, missed, underexposed, etc. most of the time.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:11:35 PM by mackguyver »

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1515
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 02:33:02 PM »
The sensor is great all right. We know that since Nikon has (almost) the same sensor in the D800.

The question here is, great IQ with what lenses? Only two (rather slow) native lenses to speak of and don't get me started on adapters. Even DxO with its myopic "scores" came out with an ultimate assessment that the IQ even with a great sensor will only be as good as the lens you put in front of the camera.

Will this go the way of the D800? With a number of compromises made just for a smaller body, I guess it will sell worse.  (People who have wanted the extra MP / DR have already switched to Nikon while those on the DR / MP hobby horse can be found trolling in the CR space)

BTW, I've read that there is no confirmation Sony has microlenses to adjust for the problems with the short flange distance with wide lenses that lead to side to side color problems? Leica does this in its cameras but what about Sony?
5D3, 6D, 600D, RX100
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 18-55 II, 55-250 II, 600RT x 4
I come here to learn something new, not to learn how bad my gear is - I know that already ;-)!

mountain_drew

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 02:37:19 PM »
There's more to a camera than its sensor, check out The Phoblographer's list of complaints about this camera:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/10/30/finding-wrong-sony-a7-a7r-far/

I'd rather than 90% (or whatever percent is appropriate) the IQ 99% of the time vs. technically great stills that are out of focus, missed, underexposed, etc. most of the time.
Yes, these are points that are weak in the A7r. But the sensor is Canon's weakness and they should try to improve it. It seems really hard from Canon lovers to recognize problems without trying to find faults in competitors. Yes, Canon's great, but they can be greater.

duydaniel

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 02:51:32 PM »
I hope the new Nikon DF will have 36 mp sensor with Expeed 4

mackguyver

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3017
  • Who Dares Wins
    • View Profile
    • My Personal Work
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 03:20:54 PM »
There's more to a camera than its sensor, check out The Phoblographer's list of complaints about this camera:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/10/30/finding-wrong-sony-a7-a7r-far/

I'd rather than 90% (or whatever percent is appropriate) the IQ 99% of the time vs. technically great stills that are out of focus, missed, underexposed, etc. most of the time.
Yes, these are points that are weak in the A7r. But the sensor is Canon's weakness and they should try to improve it. It seems really hard from Canon lovers to recognize problems without trying to find faults in competitors. Yes, Canon's great, but they can be greater.
I hear you, but I think the sensor plays a smaller role in the final image than most people think (where post-processing plays such a huge role).  If it didn't why would any (un-sponsored) pro shoot with Canon?  If dynamic range and color depth were so critical wouldn't it be obvious which camera was used to shoot a landscape or portrait?  When I flip through National Geographic, which is probably the purest in terms of post-processing, I can't tell you if it was a Nikon, Canon, or Hasselblad, and neither can anyone else.  At least not by looking at the photos alone.

I think DxOMark is a good resource, particularly for lenses, but just about any current DSLR can give you amazing results suitable for publication or exhibition.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 03:20:54 PM »

zlatko

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 03:36:06 PM »
DxOmark just published the full Sony A7r sensor test. And according to their measuresand ranking system the camera scores the same points as the Nikon D800-D800E (and that for $500 less). And it literally kicks the Canon5DIII in the butt.

I have thousands of images from the D800 and from the 5D3, and there is no butt-kicking happening in either direction.  While both do a fine job, for me and my work the disadvantages of the D800 outweigh the advantages.

DxO charts are interesting if you are just buying a sensor.  But photographers evaluate photos and usability for their tasks more than sensor charts.  The sensor is the least interesting thing about the A7/A7r, which looks to be a very interesting camera otherwise.

The (mostly) anonymous online complaints about Canon's sensors don't stop anyone from making absolutely awesome photos with Canon's sensors in a great variety of circumstances.  This is proven day after day by thousands of photographers, including some of the best in the business.  When I hear about or meet a photographer whose work I've admired for decades and their main camera today is the 5D3, that tells me a lot more than anonymous complaints on the Internet.

chilledXpress

  • Guest
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 03:39:12 PM »
There's more to a camera than its sensor, check out The Phoblographer's list of complaints about this camera:
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/10/30/finding-wrong-sony-a7-a7r-far/

I'd rather than 90% (or whatever percent is appropriate) the IQ 99% of the time vs. technically great stills that are out of focus, missed, underexposed, etc. most of the time.

Interesting, when the X100S came out I was at a point where I was looking for a small carry camera with high quality image possibility. At the time the OM-D EM-5 was the strongest competitor I was also interested in. I got to use a couple from our camera club for about a month... It's almost like The Phoblographer's review of the A7r's could be applied to the Oly. In the end I decided that what I needed was good IQ and a smaller package, if I was shooting sports I wouldn't be using a "small carry" camera anyways. The X100S is by no means perfect but it nails focus most of the time although not as fast as the Oly. It didn't really matter if the Oly was faster in the AF department if it was always a little "off" focus.I've been looking at this A7/r since hearing about it... my hope now is that Fuji and Canon have a bit more fire put to their arses and get cracking with FF answers to Sony.  Love the Fuji but if they had a faster AF and a FF offering ILC... damn... I'm ready put me in coach!!!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:56:04 PM by chilledXpress »

chilledXpress

  • Guest
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 03:49:53 PM »
DxOmark just published the full Sony A7r sensor test. And according to their measuresand ranking system the camera scores the same points as the Nikon D800-D800E (and that for $500 less). And it literally kicks the Canon5DIII in the butt.

I have thousands of images from the D800 and from the 5D3, and there is no butt-kicking happening in either direction.  While both do a fine job, for me and my work the disadvantages of the D800 outweigh the advantages.

DxO charts are interesting if you are just buying a sensor.  But photographers evaluate photos and usability for their tasks more than sensor charts.  The sensor is the least interesting thing about the A7/A7r, which looks to be a very interesting camera otherwise.

The (mostly) anonymous online complaints about Canon's sensors don't stop anyone from making absolutely awesome photos with Canon's sensors in a great variety of circumstances.  This is proven day after day by thousands of photographers, including some of the best in the business.  When I hear about or meet a photographer whose work I've admired for decades and their main camera today is the 5D3, that tells me a lot more than anonymous complaints on the Internet.

Indeed, I don't give a shite about absolute perfection in sensors or DR. I run a portrait business... and often speak with other colleagues doing the same. Not once has anyone cared about whether you shoot Canon, Nikon, or whatever. It's always more about how the gear performs in the field and if it's more of a hindrance or asset. Todays offerings from the camera world will more than cover the needs of most in the IQ department... missed focus and poor metering though will be a hindrance any day of the week.   

RLPhoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3520
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 03:55:21 PM »
I'd like one in EF mount please.  ::)

iron-t

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 04:17:45 PM »
The A7R is very intriguing.  Before I moved to Canon DSLRs I was on Micro 4/3 and this looks a lot like shoehorning a double-size sensor with similar pixel density into a similar body.  The problems are the same, though: contrast detect autofocus, while potentially extremely accurate and quite fast for static subjects, is abysmal with moving subjects.  This is the whole reason for development of on-sensor phase detection, which the A7R does not have.

When Canon rolls out a new hi-res sensor in a traditional (big) DSLR frame with excellent AI Servo, those who jumped on the A7R might be sad.  Even though the A7R body is small, its full-frame lenses will be big, cancelling its size advantage.  For now, I'm more than happy with a 5D3.

dolina

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1046
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 04:21:41 PM »
Looking forward to the successor to the 5D Mark III, 1DX and 7D :)
Visit my Flickr, Facebook & 500px and see my photos. :)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 04:21:41 PM »

zlatko

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 04:34:51 PM »
Indeed, I don't give a shite about absolute perfection in sensors or DR. I run a portrait business... and often speak with other colleagues doing the same. Not once has anyone cared about whether you shoot Canon, Nikon, or whatever. It's always more about how the gear performs in the field and if it's more of a hindrance or asset. Todays offerings from the camera world will more than cover the needs of most in the IQ department... missed focus and poor metering though will be a hindrance any day of the week.
Well said.  IQ is generally very high today and some measured difference at certain ISOs is not that special.  Too many other factors come into play when making photographs.

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3458
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 04:43:20 PM »
Indeed, I don't give a shite about absolute perfection in sensors or DR. I run a portrait business... and often speak with other colleagues doing the same. Not once has anyone cared about whether you shoot Canon, Nikon, or whatever. It's always more about how the gear performs in the field and if it's more of a hindrance or asset. Todays offerings from the camera world will more than cover the needs of most in the IQ department... missed focus and poor metering though will be a hindrance any day of the week.
Well said.  IQ is generally very high today and some measured difference at certain ISOs is not that special.  Too many other factors come into play when making photographs.
+1
Nobody cares what the dynamic range and IQ is of an out of focus picture....
The best camera is the one in your hands

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 04:43:20 PM »