July 23, 2014, 06:11:10 PM

Author Topic: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever  (Read 25224 times)

zlatko

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2013, 09:41:01 PM »
In fact, zlatko's statement was cogent, logical and accurate. It's your response that said nothing. 
Thank you neuroanatomist.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #135 on: November 03, 2013, 09:41:01 PM »

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #136 on: November 03, 2013, 09:46:14 PM »
The examples I was addressing where "large mammal retreats into the woods or runs", and back-lit "birds in flight".  Allowing the bright sky to fool the exposure meter is a photographer's error.  Likewise, not adjusting for sudden changes in light conditions is a photographer's error. The challenge in those examples isn't having enough DR.  It is simply for the photographer to make any needed exposure adjustments quickly.  No one always nails the exposure, but fortunately today's cameras allow for very quick adjustments — it just takes a twirl of the dial to expose for that bird or mammal.  These examples don't show a sensor problem or deficiency.  Today's sensors are perfectly adequate for these tasks.

Errors happen, and those animals are faster than me. I will take a camera which does not penalize me (so much) for my mistakes to one that does any day.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13519
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #137 on: November 03, 2013, 09:55:34 PM »
These examples don't show a sensor problem or deficiency.  Today's sensors are perfectly adequate for these tasks.

+1

While it's true that there is sometimes more DR in the scene than the camera can capture, I can honestly say there have been very, very few situations where an extra two stops of DR in the ISO 100-800 range would have done the job.  For openers, about 50% of my shots are at higher than ISO 800, where the DR of the 'inferior', 'lagging' sensor in my 1D X delivers greater DR than the D800 or a7R.  In the majority of those situations where there are more than 12 stops of DR in a scene that I'm shooting at low ISO (which was the case when I was out shooting architecture last night, actually), there are also more than 14 stops of DR in those scenes (last night, the guy next to me with his D800 was shooting multiple exposures for HDR, just like I was). 
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

JohnDizzo15

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 364
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #138 on: November 03, 2013, 10:14:09 PM »
I think we should all begin to focus on the things we do agree on so as to avoid rehashing so many of the same topics and arguments time and again:

1. The Sony sensor (D800/e) has the most DR from ISO 100-800.
2. DR levels out and advantage is gone after ISO 800.
3. 5D3 sensor does better in higher ISOs.
4. More DR is useful (and nice to have) but not always/or even often necessary.
5. Each sensor has it's own advantages AS WELL as disadvantages neither of which should be ignored when when assessing IQ or level of advancement in technology.
6. Everyone has differing needs when it comes to photography which most of us in here cannot account for.

Things to avoid since they are so clearly untrue/baseless and continue to cause unnecessary debate due to their antagonistic nature:

1. Any blanket statements such as Nikon image quality "trounces" Canon's.
2. Pre-determining whether something is completely unuseful or not before it is in people's hands.
3. Making any other inferences about how good or bad the new bodies will be since again, they are not in people's hands yet.

zlatko

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #139 on: November 03, 2013, 11:02:34 PM »
The examples I was addressing where "large mammal retreats into the woods or runs", and back-lit "birds in flight".  Allowing the bright sky to fool the exposure meter is a photographer's error.  Likewise, not adjusting for sudden changes in light conditions is a photographer's error. The challenge in those examples isn't having enough DR.  It is simply for the photographer to make any needed exposure adjustments quickly.  No one always nails the exposure, but fortunately today's cameras allow for very quick adjustments — it just takes a twirl of the dial to expose for that bird or mammal.  These examples don't show a sensor problem or deficiency.  Today's sensors are perfectly adequate for these tasks.

Errors happen, and those animals are faster than me. I will take a camera which does not penalize me (so much) for my mistakes to one that does any day.

So, if this is so important, presumably you are using Nikon or Sony already?  These sensors have been out for a while — no need to wait for the A7/A7r.

For what it's worth, my Nikon-using friends have never mentioned not being penalized so much for mistakes as a reason for choosing Nikon.  They typically have other reasons.  And they still deal with the same common tasks of adjusting and prioritizing exposure, especially in the situations above.

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #140 on: November 03, 2013, 11:16:01 PM »
So, if this is so important, presumably you are using Nikon or Sony already?  These sensors have been out for a while — no need to wait for the A7/A7r.

It is important but it is not enough to make me switch. For now. Are you ever going to admit that DR at low ISO is important, for some at least?

Quote
For what it's worth, my Nikon-using friends have never mentioned not being penalized so much for mistakes as a reason for choosing Nikon.

They must be good fiends, protecting your feelings.  Nikonians are bragging about DR everyday on dpreview.

zlatko

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2013, 11:50:36 PM »
So, if this is so important, presumably you are using Nikon or Sony already?  These sensors have been out for a while — no need to wait for the A7/A7r.

It is important but it is not enough to make me switch. For now. Are you ever going to admit that DR at low ISO is important, for some at least?

Quote
For what it's worth, my Nikon-using friends have never mentioned not being penalized so much for mistakes as a reason for choosing Nikon.

They must be good fiends, protecting your feelings.  Nikonians are bragging about DR everyday on dpreview.

DR is important at every ISO.  No problem with the current DR of Canon sensors.  I'm surprised that you're not using Sony or Nikon already, after you stated, "I will take a camera which does not penalize me (so much) for my mistakes to one that does any day."  Apparently it is not that important to you.

Actually those Nikon-using friends are very busy photographers and not the type to spend any time bragging on Dpreview.  And they are quite honest about what's good and bad about their gear.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #141 on: November 03, 2013, 11:50:36 PM »

sanj

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #142 on: November 04, 2013, 12:31:35 AM »
I think we should all begin to focus on the things we do agree on so as to avoid rehashing so many of the same topics and arguments time and again:

1. The Sony sensor (D800/e) has the most DR from ISO 100-800.
2. DR levels out and advantage is gone after ISO 800.
3. 5D3 sensor does better in higher ISOs.
4. More DR is useful (and nice to have) but not always/or even often necessary.
5. Each sensor has it's own advantages AS WELL as disadvantages neither of which should be ignored when when assessing IQ or level of advancement in technology.
6. Everyone has differing needs when it comes to photography which most of us in here cannot account for.

Things to avoid since they are so clearly untrue/baseless and continue to cause unnecessary debate due to their antagonistic nature:

1. Any blanket statements such as Nikon image quality "trounces" Canon's.
2. Pre-determining whether something is completely unuseful or not before it is in people's hands.
3. Making any other inferences about how good or bad the new bodies will be since again, they are not in people's hands yet.

You taking the spice out. :)

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #143 on: November 04, 2013, 08:28:47 AM »
DR is important at every ISO.  No problem with the current DR of Canon sensors.

No problem for you, or for everybody? Do you admit that for some it might be a real problem, not just something in their imagination?

I do not care about high fps, for example. Should I get involved in any discussion about high fps to say: no problem with 3 fps. If you are good photographer, you would be able to nail it even with 3 fps, etc.?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 08:33:11 AM by Pi »

sanj

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #144 on: November 04, 2013, 09:29:59 AM »
DR is important at every ISO.  No problem with the current DR of Canon sensors.

No problem for you, or for everybody? Do you admit that for some it might be a real problem, not just something in their imagination?

I do not care about high fps, for example. Should I get involved in any discussion about high fps to say: no problem with 3 fps. If you are good photographer, you would be able to nail it even with 3 fps, etc.?

Valid argument.

zlatko

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • http://www.zlatkobatistich.com
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #145 on: November 04, 2013, 09:43:25 AM »
DR is important at every ISO.  No problem with the current DR of Canon sensors.

No problem for you, or for everybody? Do you admit that for some it might be a real problem, not just something in their imagination?

I do not care about high fps, for example. Should I get involved in any discussion about high fps to say: no problem with 3 fps. If you are good photographer, you would be able to nail it even with 3 fps, etc.?
As I wrote, photographers who actually need more DR than Canon offers should already have switched.  These Sony sensors have been out for a while.  During that time, many photographers have looked at their options and decided to stick with Canon.

Likewise, there is no problem with 3fps (or 6 or 8fps, etc.), but if someone actually needs more then they should buy it.  Why would someone buy 3fps and then blame the manufacturer?  The same goes for megapixels, etc.  Offering less than the maximum mp doesn't mean there is a problem or deficiency.  Not every camera has to offer the maximum of every measure of performance for us to say there is "no problem" with it.  A manufacturer chooses which measures to prioritize, such as high ISO performance.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:49:30 AM by zlatko »

Axilrod

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1371
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #146 on: November 04, 2013, 10:28:46 AM »
As I wrote, photographers who actually need more DR than Canon offers should already have switched.  These Sony sensors have been out for a while.  During that time, many photographers have looked at their options and decided to stick with Canon.

Likewise, there is no problem with 3fps (or 6 or 8fps, etc.), but if someone actually needs more then they should buy it.  Why would someone buy 3fps and then blame the manufacturer?  The same goes for megapixels, etc.  Offering less than the maximum mp doesn't mean there is a problem or deficiency.  Not every camera has to offer the maximum of every measure of performance for us to say there is "no problem" with it.  A manufacturer chooses which measures to prioritize, such as high ISO performance.

I don't think Pi really cares what you or anyone else has to say, it seems like he's just obsessed with being "right."
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

JohnDizzo15

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 364
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #147 on: November 04, 2013, 11:39:03 AM »
Does anyone know if Nikon's top low light performing sensor outperforms Canon's in low light shooting (DR, noise, etc.)? If Nikon doesn't have anything that currently performs better in lower lighting conditions, have they ever had a sensor that did at any specific point in time?

I would research it myself but I'm on my phone and it just seemed easier to ask you guys. Thanks.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #147 on: November 04, 2013, 11:39:03 AM »

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3320
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #148 on: November 04, 2013, 12:32:07 PM »
So, if this is so important, presumably you are using Nikon or Sony already?  These sensors have been out for a while — no need to wait for the A7/A7r.
For what it's worth, my Nikon-using friends have never mentioned not being penalized so much for mistakes as a reason for choosing Nikon.
They must be good fiends, protecting your feelings.  Nikonians are bragging about DR everyday on dpreview.
Immature people will brag "about DR everyday", but the wise do not use those brags as reference points ... I also shoot with Nikon gear and like so many others have mentioned the DR is great between 100-800 ISO, but it is no big deal to the point of switching from Canon to whatever brand.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:23:29 PM by Rienzphotoz »
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3320
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #149 on: November 04, 2013, 12:33:09 PM »
I think we should all begin to focus on the things we do agree on so as to avoid rehashing so many of the same topics and arguments time and again:

1. The Sony sensor (D800/e) has the most DR from ISO 100-800.
2. DR levels out and advantage is gone after ISO 800.
3. 5D3 sensor does better in higher ISOs.
4. More DR is useful (and nice to have) but not always/or even often necessary.
5. Each sensor has it's own advantages AS WELL as disadvantages neither of which should be ignored when when assessing IQ or level of advancement in technology.
6. Everyone has differing needs when it comes to photography which most of us in here cannot account for.

Things to avoid since they are so clearly untrue/baseless and continue to cause unnecessary debate due to their antagonistic nature:

1. Any blanket statements such as Nikon image quality "trounces" Canon's.
2. Pre-determining whether something is completely unuseful or not before it is in people's hands.
3. Making any other inferences about how good or bad the new bodies will be since again, they are not in people's hands yet.
Nice summary ... but you have upset those who want a never ending debate :)
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Sony A7R on DXO - Highest full frame IQ ever
« Reply #149 on: November 04, 2013, 12:33:09 PM »