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Author Topic: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it  (Read 65700 times)

TommyLee

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2013, 09:44:50 AM »
had a 5D II and used it with my 35L and 85L II
nice gear all around...

then
when I got the 5D3...the lenses came alive .... all over the place....finally
accurate, more reliably sharper.... all points ar4e now useful....
(both cameras having been set up with MA)

then the sigma 35 replaced the 35L ... wow ...buh bye ...Canon
and the new SYSTEM with these 2  lenses is great... 
I love this pair walking the city as the sun arrives... ...the sigma keeps up with the 85L - IMO
I also carry the 14L.... it is nice...within its own limits

likely.... these two fast primes are the only stuff that works (for me) in low light of a bar / jazz club....
....and at the outer points too.... much better than the 5D II...
my 35 sig DOES work fast accurate and on outer points....

as for the 6D...have not used one... but I 'understand' the centerpoint is the reliable option..

my vote - for you - is for the 5D III

the two primes are the correct ones...
I also have the 135L...lovely,,,, but not the same ability as the 85L II... for what I like...

yes 135 is faster to focus ...and  better for some work... and with a flash ...likely beats the 85L..
but for those very low light ...special shots... the sigma the 35 and 85 and a 5D3  are where it art..

in my opinion

TOM

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2013, 09:44:50 AM »

Pi

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2013, 09:49:43 AM »
focus recompose with the 85 L @ 1.2, regardless of your AF system, will prove to be frustrating at best. 

If you're going to shoot the 85L wide open with the 6D, just use the center point and crop for the proper orientation in post.

It depends how far you focus. If it is far enough, DOF is deep enough, F&R errors are negligible, and any 5D series camera will do. 

Here is a set shot with the 50L and the 85L with the 5D2, wide open, sometimes focused with an outer AF point. Pixelpeeping reveals no problems with the focus.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/105206784@N04/sets/72157637479450743/

bholliman

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2013, 05:05:30 PM »

Get a 5D III. I see your case on this forum quite often. 6D sounds great from the begining due to lower price tag. Once the camera is in your hand and crappy AF becomes crappy, then you wish I have purchased 5D III.

I've taken hundreds of great, in-focus, shallow DOF portraits in the past 11 month with my 6D at a very high keeper rate.  I didn't realize until now that wasn't possible with my 6D with its "crappy" AF  ::).  I better put it up for sale now and start looking for a 5D3... ;)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it really IS possible to take good pictures with something less than a 1Dx or 5D3.  The 6D can handle shallow DOF photography if good technique is used.
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M
EF Lenses: 35mm f/2.0 IS, 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, 135mm f/2.0L, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8L II, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II; EF-M Lenses: 22 f/2, 18-55
Speedlites: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

candc

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2013, 06:54:17 PM »
From what I have seen and read the 6d AF is really good in low light but its just the 9 point spread which is okay for most situations. I have been shooting more birds and wildlife lately and using the 70d. I really like the better coverage and the buton to toggle single, zone and area modes.to me the extra cost of the 5diii over the 6d would be worth it for the even better yet AF system

BL

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2013, 10:55:18 PM »
From what I have seen and read the 6d AF is really good in low light but its just the 9 point spread which is okay

i believe it's 11 points, but it's a shame those extra 2 points don't make it much of an upgrade over the aging 9pt configuration
M, 5Dc, 1Dx, some lenses, a few lights

Dylan777

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2013, 12:26:35 AM »

Get a 5D III. I see your case on this forum quite often. 6D sounds great from the begining due to lower price tag. Once the camera is in your hand and crappy AF becomes crappy, then you wish I have purchased 5D III.

I've taken hundreds of great, in-focus, shallow DOF portraits in the past 11 month with my 6D at a very high keeper rate.  I didn't realize until now that wasn't possible with my 6D with its "crappy" AF  ::).  I better put it up for sale now and start looking for a 5D3... ;)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it really IS possible to take good pictures with something less than a 1Dx or 5D3.  The 6D can handle shallow DOF photography if good technique is used.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I agree 6D is a great camera for still shooting or tracking 90yrs old grandma crossing the street.

I wouldn't buy my 2nd 5D III if 6D is capable doing something like this in AI Servo: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/t302HPVC/1/6306064#imageID=201922532

You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 01:03:00 AM by Dylan777 »
Bodies: 1DX -- 5D III
Zooms: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Primes: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

CarlTN

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2013, 01:01:47 AM »
I'm about to spend a significant (for my finances) amount of money on a new Canon full frame body, it is going to be either a 6D or a 5D3. The plan is to get the camera body and 2 very fast primes: Sigma 35/1.4 and Canon 85/1.2. The 6D has got what i want and costs about 1000€ less than the 5D3, but given the fact that the DoF with fast primes is going to be tiny to say the least, how is the supposedly "simplistic" 6D AF system going to perform? The main fields of application will be travel and street photography, family portraits, some landscapes, the occasional event, and everything will happen just for the sake of it, i'm not trying to make a living out of my hobby (or else i wouldn't have such quantity of money to squander on gear :D ). I just don't want to spend a significant amount of money and be disappointed by a quirky AF behavior. I would like to hear from owners of these cameras and lenses, lots of online researches and reading still aren't enough to make up my mind.

I've written on this forum extensively about this, and am getting tired of it.  I've tried the 5D3, the 1DX, the 1Ds3, the 1D4, the 5D2...and I recently passed 11,000 shutter count on my 6D.

If you're a perfectionist about razor sharp focus accuracy as many on here claim they are...(but you are somehow also not caring a wit about luminance noise above ISO 1000, because the 5D3 has it in spades and the 6D's is far better)...and you will be spending much of your time using the outer focus points to achieve focus with a fast prime (something that is asking for trouble with the 6D's AF sensor)...then FORGET THE 6D and buy the 5D3.

You claim this is a lot of money for you...it was for me too.  But apparently you're still going to spend more than I did over such a short amount of time.  6D + those two lenses = approx. $4650.  Therefore, you might as well go ahead and get the 5D3, because if you've got the cash to blow on the 85 f/1.2, then you've got plenty of disposable income in my opinion, to spring for the 5D3.  At nearly $5000 spent in one day, what's another grand or so? 

I made the right decision for me, because I didn't need the snob appeal of owning the higher priced body, and I cared more about image quality in the ISO range between 1000 and 10,000...than perhaps a portrait photographer would (who uses a 5D3 in a studio with strobes and fast primes...at ISO's under 1000...where the 5D3's noise level and DR are easily as good or better than the 6D).  I mostly shoot landscape and wildlife, and I get by fine with the 6D.  Frankly if I were a wedding photographer who somehow always wanted to shoot running children at the wedding with only outer AF points on an 85 f/1.2 (you know, so I could get the framing just right along the rule of thirds and blah blah blah), I would have bought the 1DX, and forgot all about the 5D3 (as many have).

I've only used two fast primes on my 6D so far (three actually, but only two of them can autofocus).  The 135 f/2 cannot AF as fast or as accurate as I would like on the 6D, at least in low light.  It works, but servo AF with all points active, is asking for trouble, and results in inaccurate AF at or near wide open aperture.  The reason is the outer points are basically crap, they only sense phase differences in one direction, and are especially upset by a lens whose maximum aperture is wider/faster than f/4. 

Worst of all, the 6D's processing seems to give these outer points priority while in servo mode.  Even though there's plenty of phase to detect at the center point, somehow it's not lighting up.  Eventually Canon or ML will fix this, or they won't...I don't know.

This is one of several reasons that so many people gleefully bash the 6D and/or its autofocus ability.  Another reason is they need to chest thump about how proud they are of themselves for owning the 5D3 and earning $15k a week with it shooting weddings, Vogue covers, and the Miss Universe pageant, etc etc.

The fastest and most accurate AF with my 6D, is achieved with my 70-200 f/4...even in very low light.  Still, about 90% of the time I am in servo AF mode, I leave center point only active (no matter what lens is attached).  The other fast prime I've used, is the much maligned Sigma 24mm f/1.8.  It exhibits similar behavior to the 135.  The biggest difference with this Sigma, is that the autofocus micro adjustment changes every time I use it.  I suspect the focus motor(s) are somehow going askew every time I put the lens cap on...so the solution is to leave it off!  It's not a "usm" motor so I'm sure that is a factor.  It's still a very fun lens to use, though.

My third fast prime is a Cosina Voigtlander 58mm f/1.4 Nokton in Nikon mount, with a chipped adaptor that allows focus confirmation.  All I can say here, is the focus confirmation seems to work very accurately even with the outer points...but the final results are really still not as good as an autofocus lens.  So for critical focus with this lens, I use live view.

If any of this has helped you at all, then you need to lend me those two lenses, one at a time...for three weeks each.  Thanks and you're welcome!   
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 01:23:52 AM by CarlTN »

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2013, 01:01:47 AM »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2013, 01:14:43 AM »

Get a 5D III. I see your case on this forum quite often. 6D sounds great from the begining due to lower price tag. Once the camera is in your hand and crappy AF becomes crappy, then you wish I have purchased 5D III.

I've taken hundreds of great, in-focus, shallow DOF portraits in the past 11 month with my 6D at a very high keeper rate.  I didn't realize until now that wasn't possible with my 6D with its "crappy" AF  ::).  I better put it up for sale now and start looking for a 5D3... ;)

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it really IS possible to take good pictures with something less than a 1Dx or 5D3.  The 6D can handle shallow DOF photography if good technique is used.

I agree, but 1DX and 5D3 owners don't care, not really.  I say if the "1DXi" ("1DX2", or whatever it will be called) and the 5D4 still have as much luminance noise as the current models do in the range between ISO 1000 and 10,000, I'll still be using my 6D, or else have sold it and bought a new 6D by then.  It's amusing to me how these guys claim to be such sharp focus freaks when shooting action, yet somehow the luminance noise that is 5 to 8 pixels diameter on both the 5D3 and 1DX, doesn't seem to bother them.  It's quite ugly when viewing at 1:1, and the only solution is to apply so much NR that your precious 22 MP or 18 MP image, becomes the equal in resolution of an 8 MP image...where's all that "sharpness" then?  It's gone, that's where.  Sure, the 5D3 and 1DX have less chrominance (color) noise than the 6D above ISO 10,000...but who cares?  There's enough of all types of noise above there, along with even less DR, to not brag too much about noise levels from any of these three cameras.  But below 10,000 is where low light (and occasionally high speed in average light)...wildlife photography lives.  Sure the 6D's AF sensor needs vast improvement, but it works far better than the bashers have to keep telling themselves that it does.

Here's another thought.  Rather than always leaving the camera in servo AF mode, why not try single shot mode with multiple half presses of the shutter?  That works fantastic on the 6D, on anything travelling slower than a hummingbird, racecar, or perhaps a radio controlled turbine jet model plane doing a low pass at 300 mph...I like to use the DOF preview button on my 6D, as the shortcut to engage servo AF, for those times when I need it.  The button's placement is ideal for hand-holding a 70-200 lens (or most any lens other than a supertelephoto)... for example.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 01:31:53 AM by CarlTN »

Pi

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2013, 01:24:04 AM »
You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.

What does AI servo has to do with this thread?

Dylan777

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2013, 01:29:52 AM »
You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.

What does AI servo has to do with this thread?

OP asked - " I just don't want to spend a significant amount of money and be disappointed by a quirky AF behavior" - unless you think that is not important.

I want to avoid seeing another thread like this: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=17492.0
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 01:34:29 AM by Dylan777 »
Bodies: 1DX -- 5D III
Zooms: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Primes: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

CarlTN

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2013, 01:33:57 AM »
You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.

What does AI servo has to do with this thread?

OP asked " I just don't want to spend a significant amount of money and be disappointed by a quirky AF behavior", unless you think that is not important.

I say for anyone about to spend $5000 or $6000 in one day...they're foolish if they don't try both cameras along with those lenses, first.  It's called renting, or maybe go to a photography club meeting and find someone who will let you borrow something for a day or two.

I missed that other thread you're referring to, but I don't feel the need to read it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 01:37:50 AM by CarlTN »

Pi

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2013, 01:51:24 AM »
OP asked - " I just don't want to spend a significant amount of money and be disappointed by a quirky AF behavior" - unless you think that is not important.

Yes, I do think that tracking fast moving subjects is not important for most people. I think that if the OP wanted to do that, he would have specifically asked for it. Besides, tracking at f/1.2 or f/1.4 will be frustrating anyway.

CarlTN

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2013, 02:06:34 AM »
OP asked - " I just don't want to spend a significant amount of money and be disappointed by a quirky AF behavior" - unless you think that is not important.

Yes, I do think that tracking fast moving subjects is not important for most people. I think that if the OP wanted to do that, he would have specifically asked for it. Besides, tracking at f/1.2 or f/1.4 will be frustrating anyway.

Agreed.  Most everybody who really has a need for servo tracking, is using an f/2.8 zoom or prime telephoto lens.  I admit I've not used a 70-200 f/2.8, or a supertelephoto, on my 6D yet.  Certainly the 5D3's autofocus would be better for this.

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2013, 02:06:34 AM »

bholliman

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2013, 07:48:32 AM »
You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.


Yes, I do think that tracking fast moving subjects is not important for most people. I think that if the OP wanted to do that, he would have specifically asked for it. Besides, tracking at f/1.2 or f/1.4 will be frustrating anyway.

What does AI servo has to do with this thread?

+1  AI servo is not relevant to this thread as the OP is talking about portraits.


I say for anyone about to spend $5000 or $6000 in one day...they're foolish if they don't try both cameras along with those lenses, first.  It's called renting, or maybe go to a photography club meeting and find someone who will let you borrow something for a day or two.

Agreed
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M
EF Lenses: 35mm f/2.0 IS, 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, 135mm f/2.0L, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8L II, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II; EF-M Lenses: 22 f/2, 18-55
Speedlites: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

Dylan777

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2013, 10:26:37 AM »
You have anything with 6D in AI servo to share? because I'm not an expert tracking moving subject with just center point.


Yes, I do think that tracking fast moving subjects is not important for most people. I think that if the OP wanted to do that, he would have specifically asked for it. Besides, tracking at f/1.2 or f/1.4 will be frustrating anyway.

What does AI servo has to do with this thread?

+1  AI servo is not relevant to this thread as the OP is talking about portraits.


I say for anyone about to spend $5000 or $6000 in one day...they're foolish if they don't try both cameras along with those lenses, first.  It's called renting, or maybe go to a photography club meeting and find someone who will let you borrow something for a day or two.

Agreed

Portrait is not the only thing OP does - "The main fields of application will be travel and street photography, family portraits, some landscapes, the occasional event, and everything will happen just for the sake of it, i'm not trying to make a living out of my hobby"
Bodies: 1DX -- 5D III
Zooms: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Primes: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

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Re: 6D autofocus capabilites: let's bust some myths about it
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2013, 10:26:37 AM »