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Author Topic: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df  (Read 20633 times)

Brymills

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 08:47:26 AM »
Does it take better photos than an equivalently priced existing Nikon camera, eg a D800 ?  It smacks of the "emperors new clothes".

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 08:47:26 AM »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:54 AM »
@preppyak

I wish.

AvTvM will be on complaining. 

He's yet to show me an image that video-enabling destroyed for him.  I just want to understand why he is such an angry man about video.

distant.star

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2013, 08:50:33 AM »
.
This reeks of desperation.

I can see future business school classes talking about this -- in the annals of grasping at straws by desperate, dying companies.

Within a year, I predict we'll see a picture of some eccentric (and wealthy) nut with three of these hanging off his neck, pretending he's Dennis Hopper in "Apocalypse Now." This picture will probably come out of New York City -- and be an instagram taken with a cell phone!

Every day I enjoy my 5D3 more than ever.
You're offended? Oh, really! Life IS offense -- get used to it.

sanj

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2013, 08:51:46 AM »
It looks great to me.
It is priced at what it is priced at because of its appeal. Simple.
And what is is more expensive than?
Not having video does not make it "more" expensive, its niche appeal does.

I applaud Nikon for giving its customers choices.

My negatives to the camera: The design could have been more minimalistic. Yeah!

CR00

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2013, 08:54:57 AM »
It looks cool, but not almost 3k cool.

RC

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2013, 08:57:18 AM »
...the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.
Exactly.  I'd rather put my money towards my next practical lens.

kpk1

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 09:02:43 AM »
Once again Canon seems to look so boring.
At least Nikon is trying to do something even if the Df is not that inovative. But GOD I like it a lot and its specs.
I have a 5D2 and a 5D3. I'll sell the 5D2 for the new to come in my bag, the Df. Maybe it's my ticket to Nikon.
For a  while I'll keep both systems.
For the past 2 years the only things they did inovative was the damn radio into 600EX-RT. It's great but not enough for the hall system.
They need a big refresh, bodies and lenses.
Where's the 5D with great DR and ISO ?
Where is the compact(retro) body with top specs for the pure photographer ?
Where are the 50mm lenses ?
Where are the 85mm lenses ?
Where is the new 35L ? Sigma smacked them with de 35/1.4 Art lens.

So Canon if my opinion counts then you should do:
A body in the Df style but with the 5D3 AF, slimer and lighter. Yes I would pay 2,5k.
Bring them faster into the market: 35/1.4L II, 50/2 IS, 58/1.4, 85/2 IS
5D4 with no more than 18mpx and great DR, good ISO 6400, 12800, a little better than the 1DX.
The mirrorless FF.
5D2, Sigy 35/1.4

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2013, 09:02:43 AM »

Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2013, 09:03:46 AM »
I'm a big fan of retro style((fuji x100s), but this Df doesn't look appealing at all.

I'm going to wait for Fuji FF mirrorless instead...
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 09:06:24 AM by Dylan777 »
Bodies: 1DX -- 5D III
Zooms: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Primes: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

iam2nd

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 09:06:03 AM »
Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.

No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive

To put the argument to bed, wouldn't we need evidence that [at least part of] the reason that THIS camera is 50% more expensive than the D6X0 is -because- it lacks video?  And if they later release a "Dfv" model with video, should it cost more of less than the Df?

I like the Df concept.  In a down economy, it makes me wonder what's going on in the marketing and architect's heads.  I guess their website says it clearly:
"...SEE HOW THE NIKON Df IS REIGNITING PASSION FOR PHOTOGRAPHY"
"...A REMINDER OF WHAT WAS ONCE SO IMPORTANT TO HER"
"...A WONDERFUL AND IMAGINATIVE BLEND OF OLD AND NEW"
"...A FAMILIAR, COMFORTABLE FEEL THAT STREAMLINES HIS PROCESS"
"HOW WILL Df REIGNITE YOUR PASSION FOR PHOTOGRAPHY?"

How many of us are in this target market?


Orangutan

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2013, 09:07:09 AM »
Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.

No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive

+1

Well, it's a great marketing test: basically they crammed D4 innards into a retro design.  This may tell Nikon a few things:
  • How many stills-purists are out there; i.e. whether they constitute a legit market
  • How many wealthy amateurs over 60 still pine for their glory days, and want to carry an expensive reminder.  It's kinda like seeing a paunchy guy with thin grey hair driving an early-70's Barracuda.

And to all you CR stills-purists, here's your big chance to make your case.  But if this doesn't sell well, please accept the results of the experiment and drop the anti-video complaints.  (this comes from someone who rarely shoots video)

AvTvM

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2013, 09:30:00 AM »
Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive

Completely wrong. Nikon s decision to launch this Digital Frankenstein for USD/€ 2750,- has nothing to do with video yes/or no. It's the price point for a pseduo-retro, pseudo hipster fashion accessory.

A true test would be for CaNikon  to sell say the 6D and D610 each in a video-enabled" "v"-version and a "p"- pure photography version with absolutely everything equal, including outer design, except video-capture/video out [not firmware hackable]. "p" version being sold at USD/€ 1500  and the "v" version at 2500.  One grand more is still dirt cheap compared to purchase of both a video and a stills camera. THAT way, we would see, whether videographers are just cheapskates piggybacking on stills shooter's DSLRs or whether they are willing to pay at least for a portion of their desired dual-use cameras. 

I KNOW what the market split would be. Less than 10% of those yelling for all sorts of video crap in DSLRs wpould be willing to pay anything for it.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 09:34:13 AM by AvTvM »

Grumbaki

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2013, 09:30:38 AM »
Nikon DF - 5.6 x 4.3 x 2.6" :: 710g for camera body
Canon 6D - 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.8"  :: 770g for camera body

BTW, I think they've gone overboard on the pricing - the DF is more likely to be a fashion accessory than a primary shooting tool.

Thanks for pulling out the stats, the nail in the coffin of the mirrorless FF interchangeable lenses system crap on a stick.

Give us a damn mirror less FF 50m 1.2 and be done with it!

PS: apologies for badmouthing the a7r design, nikon manage to achieve worse (by doing a retro a7r, including the awful hump)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 09:35:49 AM by Grumbaki »

tiger82

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »
If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?
1D4 with 70-200 IS f/2.8L, 5D2 with 24-70 f/2.8L

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2013, 09:36:52 AM »

Orangutan

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2013, 09:43:06 AM »
Oh, can we also put to bed the "take away video and make the camera cheaper!" arguments for good now. Here's a stills camera aimed at photographers at the expense of videographers, and its 50% more expensive than their more mass-market D600/D610. It's gonna double the street price of the 6D, which is the same size and has video.
No video makes it more niche, which makes it more expensive

A true test would be for CaNikon  to sell say the 6D and D610 each in a video-enabled" "v"-version and a "p"- pure photography version with absolutely everything equal, including outer design, except video-capture/video out [not firmware hackable]. "p" version being sold at USD/€ 1500  and the "v" version at 2500.  One grand more is still dirt cheap compared to purchase of both a video and a stills camera. THAT way, we would see, whether videogrpahers really are only cheapskates piggybacking on stills shooter's DSLRs or whether they are willing to pay for the fact, that they want to use a device for two purposes.

I KNOW what the market split would be. Less than 10% of those yelling for all sorts of video crap in DSLRs wpould be willing to pay anything for it.

More faulty logic: you are still assuming that video costs extra, whereas it's been well-argued (1) that video is largely a bonus derived from LiveView.  Furthermore, the difference in manufacturing costs is negligible, it's all about R&D and sales volume.  Mainstream cameras without video will not sell well, which will drive up the per-unit costs.

If you don't believe that video is nearly free, consider that there's half-decent video in $300 P&S cameras.  Try to argue your way around that.  A truer test would be to offer both models at the same price, and see which sells.

Quote
I KNOW what the market split would be

If you really believe that then you are deficient in your science education.  No one "knows" until the test is actually done.

(1) I say "well-argued" because while we don't have direct access to Canon's cost info, the principles have been well developed.

Orangutan

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2013, 09:44:10 AM »
If I were a Nikon afficionado, for the same price, why would I buy a Df over a D800?

Because you already own a D800 and D800E?  I think this is marketed to wealthy hobbyists.

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Re: Off Brand: Nikon Announces the Df
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2013, 09:44:10 AM »