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Author Topic: F1 Photography Advice  (Read 48398 times)

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2013, 09:16:37 AM »
There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

With so many fascinating subplots, 2014 is shaping up to be what should be a very memorable season. I have to wonder if the struggles of Ferrari and McLaren in 2013 were at least in some way related to a diversion in resources toward developing the 2014 car. Ferrari has by far the best 1-2 driver lineup, have brought back Rory Byrne, and are supposedly looking to reunite with Ross Brawn. Me thinks the Scuderia are on the right track.

It hurts me to see proud times like McLaren and Williams struggle so mightily. My gut tells me that Williams' glory days are behind them, but I hope I'm wrong. McLaren, on the other hand, have a history of pulling themselves up from the depths of despair, so I've learned to never doubt the engineers in Woking. I'll never forget how miserable the team looked at the beginning of the 2004 season with the MP4-19, only to retrun back to winning form by mid-season with the MP4-19B.

IMHO, watching how the engineers react to major rules changes is one of the most fascinating elements of F1. Since 2009, we've seen blown diffusers, F-ducts, and FRIC suspension. What tricks will teams come up with for 2014 and beyond? I can't wait to find out ;D!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 09:19:02 AM by V8Beast »

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2013, 09:16:37 AM »

Arctic Photo

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2013, 02:42:27 PM »
There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

With so many fascinating subplots, 2014 is shaping up to be what should be a very memorable season. I have to wonder if the struggles of Ferrari and McLaren in 2013 were at least in some way related to a diversion in resources toward developing the 2014 car. Ferrari has by far the best 1-2 driver lineup, have brought back Rory Byrne, and are supposedly looking to reunite with Ross Brawn. Me thinks the Scuderia are on the right track.

It hurts me to see proud times like McLaren and Williams struggle so mightily. My gut tells me that Williams' glory days are behind them, but I hope I'm wrong. McLaren, on the other hand, have a history of pulling themselves up from the depths of despair, so I've learned to never doubt the engineers in Woking. I'll never forget how miserable the team looked at the beginning of the 2004 season with the MP4-19, only to retrun back to winning form by mid-season with the MP4-19B.

IMHO, watching how the engineers react to major rules changes is one of the most fascinating elements of F1. Since 2009, we've seen blown diffusers, F-ducts, and FRIC suspension. What tricks will teams come up with for 2014 and beyond? I can't wait to find out ;D!
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2013, 12:25:35 AM »
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.

Likewise. I love to indulge in a good F1 discussion whenever I can. I rarely have such a receptive and knowledgeable audience :) Most people just think I'm crazy, and they're probably right ;D

If any of you folks ever make it out to the U.S. Grand Prix in Austin sometime, please drop me a line. I'm serious. I'd love to throw down some beer with you folks and talk some more F1 :) Perhaps we can squeeze in some camera gear discussion, too ;D

Arctic Photo

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2013, 02:59:08 AM »
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.

Likewise. I love to indulge in a good F1 discussion whenever I can. I rarely have such a receptive and knowledgeable audience :) Most people just think I'm crazy, and they're probably right ;D

If any of you folks ever make it out to the U.S. Grand Prix in Austin sometime, please drop me a line. I'm serious. I'd love to throw down some beer with you folks and talk some more F1 :) Perhaps we can squeeze in some camera gear discussion, too ;D
Hey, thanks. I've been to Austin several times thorugh my work and now we have friends who have moved bback there after several years in Europe and Asia so we are likely to end up there sooner or later. Not sure during the GP though unless they move around in the calendar. But I'll be sure to let you know. It would be a lot of fun.

CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm actually an American ;D I can see how the comment about the Queen may have thrown you off. As an American, I just find the concept of monarchy that has no real political power rather amusing :)

As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.

Certainly that's the spin, but the reason production cars are going in that direction, is to cut emissions and increase gas mileage.  Most people don't drive 200mph on a curvy road on the way to work!  F1 racing is hardly relevant to either endeavor, and certainly there will still be sports and performance cars that don't use small displacement eco turbo engines for the foreseeable future.  It's just that the second tier offerings will be going in the econo direction to help the entire line achieve a lower CO2 footprint.  So it's a shame F1 and Bernie feel the need to mirror that.  For instance, I just read in "Car" magazine, that you can say goodbye to a flat 6 in the Boxster and Cayman.  They will get a smaller turbo 4 cylinder.  I guess it's a good thing I don't aspire to own either of them anyway.  It's just a shame that their prices probably won't see a decrease... 

If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 01:18:58 AM by CarlTN »

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #95 on: December 15, 2013, 01:21:41 AM »
As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.
The sole reason why Honda have re-entered the sport is due to the new direction that the sport is taking with regards to energy recovery, personally I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while we had Honda power (4 championships in a row and one 2nd place over a five year collaboration between 1988 and 1992), whereas we have used Mercedes power now for 19 years and only won 1 championship (came 2nd 7 times), so adios Mercedes, don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out  :P
Regarding Rossi, I believe that there is plenty of scope these days as there are plenty of drivers that are “past their sell by dates”, watch this space!!!  Teams like Marussia, Caterham, Sauber, and Williams are the kind of teams that will invest in lower cost-established championship winning drivers from other series, other teams like McLaren and Red Bull have young driver programs so it’s a bit of a revolving door at the moment, as I type this there are at least 6 seats available, and Rossi was the youngest ever driver to obtain his F1 Super Licence, so the future’s a bright place for this boy. 8)

There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #96 on: December 15, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »
If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.

I can't say that I'm a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but despite the "baggage" he brings with him, I respect his talent behind the wheel. Vettel is a great driver, but my worthless opinion is that Hamilton and Alonso are just a smidgen better.

Yes, limiting the quantity of fuel you can burn in any form of motorsport is idiotic. Even so, great innovation comes from great technical challenges, so I'm eager to see what new technologies emerge from such an idiotic regulation :)

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #96 on: December 15, 2013, 04:26:28 PM »

Stewart K

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2013, 04:47:47 AM »
Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.
No mate I wish I was that involved, I said I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while “we” had Honda power, I was referring to McLaren as they are my team, I stick with the team and not the drivers, no matter who comes and goes!!
I agree with V8Beast about Hamilton and Alonso, I also think they are arguably the best drivers on the grid at the moment. 
All the limitations imposed on the teams in F1 by the powers that be are ultimately “bendable”, and these restrictions (and their loop holes) are what help create the new fancy gadgets that will find their way into production vehicles in the future, such as new lighter/stronger materials to old design features such as overhead cams, ignition timing, exhaust performance or simple aerodynamics or tyre features which can be used on a standard production car, it all starts in F1.
This (and the creepy bikini thread) are brilliant  ;)
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CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2013, 04:12:11 PM »
If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.

I can't say that I'm a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but despite the "baggage" he brings with him, I respect his talent behind the wheel. Vettel is a great driver, but my worthless opinion is that Hamilton and Alonso are just a smidgen better.

Yes, limiting the quantity of fuel you can burn in any form of motorsport is idiotic. Even so, great innovation comes from great technical challenges, so I'm eager to see what new technologies emerge from such an idiotic regulation :)

I can see your point...but no I disagree that Alonso and Hamilton are "better" drivers than Vettel.  They're not even close, really.  Alonso is getting older, and Hamilton is also older than Vettel...and again, lacks the right instincts, discipline, and respect for those around him to do anything other than run off the track whenever he actually is able to go fast.

CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2013, 04:21:33 PM »
Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.
No mate I wish I was that involved, I said I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while “we” had Honda power, I was referring to McLaren as they are my team, I stick with the team and not the drivers, no matter who comes and goes!!
I agree with V8Beast about Hamilton and Alonso, I also think they are arguably the best drivers on the grid at the moment. 
All the limitations imposed on the teams in F1 by the powers that be are ultimately “bendable”, and these restrictions (and their loop holes) are what help create the new fancy gadgets that will find their way into production vehicles in the future, such as new lighter/stronger materials to old design features such as overhead cams, ignition timing, exhaust performance or simple aerodynamics or tyre features which can be used on a standard production car, it all starts in F1.
This (and the creepy bikini thread) are brilliant  ;)

I see.  Have to disagree again on Alonso and Hamilton, sorry.  I think this is just Vettel hating, nothing more.  Some people resent his (and his team's) success, I don't.  Again, he's also not a bad guy, and knows the meaning of respect...unlike Hamilton.  And again, Lewis can't go fast without crashing.  Raikkonen is a better driver than Hamilton, is perhaps similar in skill to Alonso...but is also just not quite at Vettel's ability.  Perhaps the best F1 driver in its history was Senna, but I'm sure you'll debate that as well.

I'm not saying F1 does not innovate, that would be absurd.  I'm just saying it's a shame they feel they have to mimmic what the passenger car manufacturers are doing regarding fuel consumption and emissions, because it's a compromise mandated by environmentalists who control governments, and has nothing to do with ultimate speed whatsoever.  F1 is, or should be about ultimate speed around a race track with lots of curves in it.  Nascar is about redneck drivers behaving badly chasing their tails in circles, Indy Car is about...not sure what.  Le Mans series is about both ultimate speed and endurance.  But since endurance is really their main reason for being, it makes more sense for Le Mans series to focus on fuel consumption and economy...hence Audi's and Peugeot's use (and dominance with) turbo diesel engines.

I mean, if fuel economy is of paramount importance to F1, they should just go with a one cylinder two stroke diesel, with hybrid solar power...and forget all about speed.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 04:25:26 PM by CarlTN »

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #100 on: December 16, 2013, 07:08:40 PM »
Have to disagree again on Alonso and Hamilton, sorry.  I think this is just Vettel hating, nothing more.  Some people resent his (and his team's) success, I don't. 

Driver debates can go on forever, and IMHO it's just one factor that makes being an F1 fan even more interesting. I have the utmost respect for Vettel. No hating here. He has, however, been the beneficiary of great fortune, and winning championships is a combination of driving talent and circumstances falling your way.

Senna was arguably the greatest ever, far better than Prost, yet Prost had the better equipment and won more championships. Many would make a similar argument that Hakkinen was every bit as good, if not a better talent, than Schumacher. As a fan of the Scuderia, I was pulling for Schumacher back in the day, but it seems like Hakkienen got the better of Schumacher through sheer talent and determination, whereas Schumacher got the better of Hakkinen through superior equipment/reliability or pit strategy. Sure there were seasons during their rivalry where the McLaren was the faster car, but it wasn't the most reliable car.  If Mika hadn't retired at such a young age, I doubt Schumacher would be a 7-time World Champion. Again, it's a combination of talent, equipment, luck, and circumstance that went the way of guys like Prost and Schumacher that at least partially accounts for their success.

While driver talent is supremely important in F1, a great car can make a good driver appear to be a great driver. Can anyone honestly say that Jenson Button was the best driver on the grid during his championship season in 2009? No one in their right mind would have picked him to win the championship at the start of the season. Likewise, let's analyze the 2004 and 2005 seasons for Ferrari. Schumacher won 13 of 18 races in 2004, and finished on the podium in 16 of 18 races. That's probably the most dominant team and driver performance I'll ever seen in F1 in my lifetime. Compare that to 2005, when Schumacher only won 1 race! The Ferrari chassis was so miserably uncompetitive in 2005 that the same driver that won 13 races the year before could barely muster 1 win, and the only reason he won that race is because over half the field parked their cars after the formation lap at Indy!

My point is that the car is every bit as important as the driver in F1, and the greatest driver on earth will never win with a POS car. Vettel could very well have the talent to win in inferior equipment, but he's never had to prove himself in that regard. I'll give him props for eeking out a win with Toro Rosso, but he's had the best car by a wide margin since 2010.

In contrast, Alonso, Hamilton, and Raikkonen are all drivers who have managed to win races in inferior equipment. Perhaps the best example of this in recent years is Alonso, whose Ferrari is so slow that it would barely qualify 6th or 7th, yet he managed to consistently put in on the podium. And if not for idiotic pit strategy in the last race of 2010, Alonso would have won his third championship, which means that he and Vettel would both be three-time World Champions instead of the score being 4-2, in favor of Vettel :)

Vettel is good, very good, but how good we don't yet know because his car has been so freakin' fast. 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 07:14:58 PM by V8Beast »

LightandMotion

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #101 on: December 16, 2013, 08:48:03 PM »
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..

Although I’m a landscape photographer primarily, I’m a huge motorsport fan. I compete in local motorsports (supersprints), and am a F1 junkie. I’ve gone to just about everyone of the F1 Aus Grand Prix since the mid-80s (Adelaide and Melbourne) and have photographed at Monza, Monte Carlo, Shanghai and Singapore. Have not done Sepang though, although I’ve driven past it a few times.

My thoughts are:

1. Preparation is key, and you’ll get your best motor racing images on the Fri/Sat rather than race day. Study the map of the circuit and determine which is the best corner for images. If you can walk around the circuit on the Thursday so you can plan where to shoot when the F1s do the practice sessions on Fri and Sat. For example side on to a straight is generally useless, but head on can provide for some dramatic action. For panning, I like to find a slow corner, where the cars can accelerate from an initial relatively slow speed. This allows your AI servo /AF tracking to lock on easier than trying to lock on at 300km/hr.

2. Race day is a day to enjoy the race. Take your images during Fri and Sat practice or qualifying. If you can get a multistand ticket (diff stand Fri/Sat/Sun) that is great so all your photos don’t look the same. However, a lot of venues allow you to go to any stand or any part of the circuit on a Friday. Also check out the entry criteria for photography. At the Aus GP max 300mm lens can be used, and they police white lens bigger than this (although you can mostly sweet talk your way around this). At Monza/MonteCarlo/Singapore – they don’t care. Not sure about Malaysia.
 
The ideal corner has a tight entry, opens out onto a long enough straight for you to get a smooth panning action going.

3. A lot of the grand prix tracks, and I suppose Malaysia is no different, are surrounded by wire cage. It is often impossible to get above the wire to shoot in the corner you want, so I get as close to the wire as possible and shoot through it.

Shoot with the lens wide open, get as close to the wire as possible, and avoid direct sunlight on the wire. The depth of field will render the wire virtually invisible. All my best images have been shot through the wire.

4. Regarding focusing through the wire – I use the 1dx so the AF tracking (option 1 or 2) is exceptional. During panning, once the AF locks on, it just doesn’t let go. My keeper rate is a lot higher than when I was using the 5d2 and even the 1d4. Yes you can manual focus to a predetermine part of the track, and this works if you want to freeze the car at 1/2000 etc. However I find static motorsports images fairly boring and prefer to pan. Once you pan, manual prefocusing is obviously problematic. Much better to use AI servo.

5. If panning, shutter speeds will be in the order of 1/30 – 1/100, depending on the corner and the speed of the car. If you are shooting wide open to use DOF to render the wire invisible, your shot will be overexposed on bright days even at ISO 50-100. I therefore always carry some ND filters, Generally a 3 stop is enough. As my primary lens are the 300 f2.8 or the 400 f2.8, I carry drop in NDs. If using the 70-200, a front screw in 2-3 stop will be more than adequate.

6. Although I have a 400 f2.8IS, and can shoot it hand held, or with a monopod, I find the 300 f2.8IS more versatile and more than enough at most tracks. You can shoot all day with it, don’t need a monopod, can move quickly from corner to corner. Add a 1.4III extender if you need more reach. Also don't forget a wide angle for colour and atmosphere.

Some of my images from G+:

As I can’t sell F1 images without permission, I don’t have many on my website:

Enjoy Sepang!


https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5927179593387000225

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5786792556258311809

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5660688069789823073

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5721611848279568689
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 01:26:24 AM by LightandMotion »
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V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2013, 12:43:35 AM »
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..



Incredible images and great advice!

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2013, 12:43:35 AM »

Stewart K

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #103 on: December 17, 2013, 03:15:14 AM »
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..
Incredible images and great advice!
Totally agree, OP pretty much follow what that guy said  ;D
I found the following comment on a fan page that I'm signed up to, it sounds sensible, so hope this little bit also helps!
The first time we went there we sat on open stands at turn 14 ( now non-existant) no shelter, bloody hot, but right on the restart to the grandstand straight. ( Great accelerations views) the year after I took the open field at turn 8. Still no shelter and we melted under our umbrellas that’s when I decided that every other year we will get the covered open area @ turn 10/11 and that’s where we’ve been every year since.
On a similar note, if anyone fancies dropping into Dubai on the 10th January then I’ll happily show you the wonderful sights of the Dunlop 24 hour’s race, which is still my most favourite motorsport event EVER!  We have 86 GT cars confirmed this year.....including an official team entry from McLaren, so I’ll be in heaven!!
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Dick

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2013, 02:12:18 PM »
I can see your point...but no I disagree that Alonso and Hamilton are "better" drivers than Vettel.  They're not even close, really.  Alonso is getting older, and Hamilton is also older than Vettel...and again, lacks the right instincts, discipline, and respect for those around him to do anything other than run off the track whenever he actually is able to go fast.

That is not even close to being the full story. Anyone of the drivers can drive from pole to victory with the best ride in the series. How can anyone say anything about Vettel's skills, when he hasn't been in a comparable situation to the others?

It also seems to be so that certain settings only fit one driver and usually both cars from one team are built with those settings. The other driver suffers because of this. It might not be possible to say if Kimi is better than Alonso (or the other way around) even when they both race Ferraris. Häkkinen claims that the turbo engine driving style fits Kimi better. Who knows... And yeah, Alonso is already taking part in the upcoming car's planning, so it might be built to suit him better & then Kimi just has to do his best with that.
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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2013, 02:12:18 PM »