October 02, 2014, 12:44:48 AM

Author Topic: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected  (Read 16013 times)

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 03:48:20 PM »
.
PS: In comparison, Canon sold about 4 million and Nikon about 3.2 million interchangeable lens cameras in 6 months this year.

Does this number include all the EOS-M cameras they gave away?
OK lets deduct those 500 EOS-M cameras, that is still about 4 million interchangeable lens cameras Canon sold in the last 6 months this year
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 03:48:20 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2013, 04:42:27 PM »
By Sony: “the pre-ordered quantities are almost 200% bigger than expected"

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/from-source-sony-a7-a7r-preorders-200-more-than-expected-from-sony-sony-a7r-review-at-cameralabs/

Ok...let see more prime lenses please :o
On that site, a member raised  an interesting point ... which I agree with and it is one of the reasons why I am apprehensive about getting any Sony gear:
"This is my biggest concern, That I’ll get the camera in Dec and then in Feb they’ll release an IBIS version and make all future lenses without IBIS after the 2 already announced. Leaving early adopters with only a couple of IS lenses"

Note: IBIS = In Body Image Stabilization

Still, I doubt that will have much impact on those in the Canon family where for most it would just be an extra body to use for high MP/high DR shots.

Albi86

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2013, 04:57:31 PM »
By Sony: “the pre-ordered quantities are almost 200% bigger than expected"

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/from-source-sony-a7-a7r-preorders-200-more-than-expected-from-sony-sony-a7r-review-at-cameralabs/

Ok...let see more prime lenses please :o

It can only be good.

It means sony will be encouraged to invest in the system, and other 3rd party manufacturers will enrich the lens lineup.

AvTvM

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2013, 05:05:08 PM »
Does this number include all the EOS-M cameras they gave away?

+1

Yes!

Dylan777

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2013, 05:30:58 PM »
The BIG diff here is Sony brought 35mm sensor into tiny body at reasonable prices.

True, but the OM-D E-M5 is part of an existing ecosystem of small, high quality lenses designed to match up with that small body.  A FF sensor in a tiny body with a big lens means the tiny body is at best no real benefit, and more often a hinderance when handling the combination, basically the same as sticking an EOS M behind a 24-70/2.8 or 70-200 lens. 

The appeal of the a7R to Canon shooters is that it works with their existing lenses, and provides a higher resolution sensor with better low ISO DR than any current Canon body.  The appeal of the a7R to Nikon shooters is…not much, really.  The appeal of the a7R to Sony shooters may be substantial…I bet many of the 350 of them are profoundly interested!   :P

LOL...It's hard for people to step out their comfort zone. Regardless what might happen to Sony FF mirrorless cameras in the future, I admired them for bringing wonderful consumer high-end cameras to the market (RX100 II, RX1, and now A7).
I agree ... but in the case of Sony, there was no choice but to innovate, as they are a loss making company (due to poor product support) ... I would be happy to buy the Sony FF mirrorless camera if I know for certain that they will continue with this product without discarding it (and its customers) down the line ... first they said in Camera Stabilization is what they stand for, then they ditch it for this FF mirrorless without in-camera-stabilization, now there is no way to know for sure (given Sony's past) that they will not put in-camera-stabilization in a future model (screwing the early adopters)  or continue on to make more image stabilized lenses. I want Sony to succeed and I thy they can, if they don't ditch their customers and provide sustained customer support. At the moment I am not really convinced by the FE lenses (except for the tiniest one), all those lenses look big for a camera of this size, especially the white one. If Sony succeeds in this, it will be good for the industry and we get to benefit from increased competition.

Yes. I agree about long lenses on mirrorless :-\ It doesn't make sense.

The market has clearly devided in segments:
1. DSLR system - Canon & Nikon are still the best choice for photogs
2. Compact high end & mirrorless systems - Sony & Fuji seem to have upper hand

Technology only will get better, faster, smaller and cheaper....the ultimate question is how fast can these companies bring to the market?
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Dylan777

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 05:36:49 PM »
.
PS: In comparison, Canon sold about 4 million and Nikon about 3.2 million interchangeable lens cameras in 6 months this year.

Does this number include all the EOS-M cameras they gave away?
OK lets deduct those 500 EOS-M cameras, that is still about 4 million interchangeable lens cameras Canon sold in the last 6 months this year

Sony spent too much time in developing A7 & A7R, they forgot to turn their A7 series from black to white, red, pink etc...that could increase another x300 - x600 times in sale ;D
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unfocused

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 05:45:43 PM »
I probably shouldn't even wade into this, but I can't help myself.

I just don't get mirrorless. Well...I sorta do...I kinda get Fuji mirrorless, but that's about it.

I don't get interchangeable lenses on a mirrorless. If I want a smaller, fake Leica body I'd want a single, fixed lens moderate zoom (24mm-100mm for example). I'm not going to use a 200mm 2.8 lens on a mirrorless camera, much less a 70-300 or 100-400 zoom. No point. I'd rather pay a little more, get a stellar zoom that I can use under all conditions and save the interchangeable lenses for the DSLR, which is a lot more practical form factor for changing lenses.

I don't get interchangeable prime lenses on a mirrorless. If I have to carry two-three lenses what advantage does a mirrorless have?

I don't get electronic viewfinders for the sake of electronic viewfinders. Maybe the technology will get there someday, but it's not there today. That's one thing I like about Fuji. They found a nice way to blend optical and electronic.

I don't get the price point. These babies aren't cheap. Unless you have money to burn, it seems crazy to invest in an expensive new system to save a few ounces.

I don't get the looks of the Sonys. They are just plain ugly with that viewfinder box slapped on top. I asked awhile back why DSLRs got so big. Most of the respondents said they like their big ole DSLRs (ergonomics was a popular catch phrase). Okay, which is it? You love your big DSLRs but you swoon over these Sonys that can't possibly have big, easy to reach and handle buttons if they are so compact.

I don't get why anyone would risk investing in a system that may or may not be around a decade from now. Say what you will about Nikon and Canon, but I'd rather bet on their systems remaining available for the next decade or so than on any other manufacturer.

Okay. Rant over.
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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 05:45:43 PM »

distant.star

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2013, 07:39:39 PM »
.
How can you possibly expect to win friends and influence people around here if you keep bringing nothing but good sense and rational thinking?

You pretty much nailed my thinking exactly. Thanks for putting it on paper (well, screen).

For me, Canon is satisfying my needs almost completely. If I had a few bucks for the frivolous side, I'd probably go for the Fuji X100S, but certainly not anything with interchangeable lenses. I'm biding my time until the right second camera comes along to replace my T2i, but I'm not in a hurry. I like a lot about the EOS-M, but I'm waiting until the next iteration shows up to decide. If I go that way, I simply add something to my Canon system -- I don't have to go build a whole new system.

For the first time ever I walked through a Whole Foods grocery store today. (And purchased nothing.) Like any sensible old geezer I just shook my head as I looked at all the fashionably dressed, intelligent-appearing people wasting gobs of money on food that can be had for a lot less in many other places. I look at folks who buy what Sony is selling in much the same way.

I probably shouldn't even wade into this, but I can't help myself.

I just don't get mirrorless. Well...I sorta do...I kinda get Fuji mirrorless, but that's about it.

I don't get why anyone would risk investing in a system that may or may not be around a decade from now. Say what you will about Nikon and Canon, but I'd rather bet on their systems remaining available for the next decade or so than on any other manufacturer.
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

Grumbaki

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2013, 07:44:59 PM »
We get your rant, that's the source of many debate.

Not to relaunch them here, my Nostradamus moment on future cam market:
Camphones (everyone including cheap and/or low tech soccer moms)
Mirrorless fixed lens zoom -and aspc?- to the proverbial "soccer mom" aka "the new point and shoot"
Mirrorless fixed lens fast prime aka "toy for big boys" aka "the photog purse cam"
DSLR as we know it with the underdogs (sony and such trying) to make room for themsmselves by going the mirrorless road but the top gear still being dominated by classics due to OVF and such.

Dylan777

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2013, 08:12:58 PM »
I probably shouldn't even wade into this, but I can't help myself.

I just don't get mirrorless. Well...I sorta do...I kinda get Fuji mirrorless, but that's about it.

I don't get interchangeable lenses on a mirrorless. If I want a smaller, fake Leica body I'd want a single, fixed lens moderate zoom (24mm-100mm for example). I'm not going to use a 200mm 2.8 lens on a mirrorless camera, much less a 70-300 or 100-400 zoom. No point. I'd rather pay a little more, get a stellar zoom that I can use under all conditions and save the interchangeable lenses for the DSLR, which is a lot more practical form factor for changing lenses.

I don't get interchangeable prime lenses on a mirrorless. If I have to carry two-three lenses what advantage does a mirrorless have?

I don't get electronic viewfinders for the sake of electronic viewfinders. Maybe the technology will get there someday, but it's not there today. That's one thing I like about Fuji. They found a nice way to blend optical and electronic.

I don't get the price point. These babies aren't cheap. Unless you have money to burn, it seems crazy to invest in an expensive new system to save a few ounces.

I don't get the looks of the Sonys. They are just plain ugly with that viewfinder box slapped on top. I asked awhile back why DSLRs got so big. Most of the respondents said they like their big ole DSLRs (ergonomics was a popular catch phrase). Okay, which is it? You love your big DSLRs but you swoon over these Sonys that can't possibly have big, easy to reach and handle buttons if they are so compact.

I don't get why anyone would risk investing in a system that may or may not be around a decade from now. Say what you will about Nikon and Canon, but I'd rather bet on their systems remaining available for the next decade or so than on any other manufacturer.

Okay. Rant over.

As a dad with 2 kids(2.5 & 5yrs), the last thing I want to carry to disneyland is 5D III + 24-70 II. I live 20mins away from Disneyland, Anaheim, California and we have annual passes for our family. I see a lot of dads at disneyland busy taking picture with huge DSLR: 1DX, 5D III, 7D  + grip and red ring lenses while the wifes taking care 1-3-4 kids herself :-\

This is when I truely appreciate the body size of my RX1 and X100s ;). I know FF mirrorless is not for everyone, but it's for me.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a7_v_olympus_om_d_e_m1_v_canon_eos_5d_mk_iii/
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bholliman

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2013, 08:27:00 PM »
I just don't get mirrorless. Well...I sorta do...I kinda get Fuji mirrorless, but that's about it.

I don't get interchangeable lenses on a mirrorless. If I want a smaller, fake Leica body I'd want a single, fixed lens moderate zoom (24mm-100mm for example). I'm not going to use a 200mm 2.8 lens on a mirrorless camera, much less a 70-300 or 100-400 zoom. No point. I'd rather pay a little more, get a stellar zoom that I can use under all conditions and save the interchangeable lenses for the DSLR, which is a lot more practical form factor for changing lenses.

+1 well said!

This is when I truely appreciate the body size of my RX1 and X100s

I "get" the RX1 and X100s, there is a need for small, portable cameras with great IQ.  The A7 and A7r I really don't get however.  If you just want 30+ MP and/or greater DR than Canon offers, buy a D800(E).  At least you will have a large selection of lenses available and know the manufacturer won't abandon you by moving on to a new lens mount or IBIS in a few months.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 08:33:24 PM by bholliman »
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Grumbaki

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2013, 08:34:06 PM »
This is when I truely appreciate the body size of my RX1 and X100s ;). I know FF mirrorless is not for everyone, but it's for me.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sony_a7_v_olympus_om_d_e_m1_v_canon_eos_5d_mk_iii/

Interesting pic. How big are your hands? Mine aren't lumberjack type but still large/long and even my old 60d was feeling cramped. What's the feeling from a pure handling purpose (not even ergonomics)

sanj

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2013, 09:24:54 PM »
I am always happy when companies innovate and make interesting stuff. I do not see any reason why we should not appreciate their efforts. Really.

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2013, 09:24:54 PM »

Cali_PH

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2013, 09:37:37 PM »
I "get" the RX1 and X100s, there is a need for small, portable cameras with great IQ.  The A7 and A7r I really don't get however.  If you just want 30+ MP and/or greater DR than Canon offers, buy a D800(E).  At least you will have a large selection of lenses available and know the manufacturer won't abandon you by moving on to a new lens mount or IBIS in a few months.

Not sure I want to get into this either but...for what it's worth...if a Canon shooter buys a D800(E), you can't use your Canon glass on it, which of course will normally mean a large investment in new glass.  However, there's a selection of existing adapters that fit on the A7 & A7r.  There are many videos of people already using Canon, Nikon, Leica, etc. mount lenses on the A7, so with the adapter, you can immediately use your Canon (or other) glass. 

Plus, so many people here have said there's not much difference in 36mp vs. 22mp of the D800 vs. 5DmkIII, largely because Canon's lenses, in general are better at resolving detail.  I'm curious to see what that Canon's superior glass can do with that sensor.  Of course, using an adapter could nullify any IQ benefit from better glass, time will tell.  EDIT - Also, in Australia I believe they're giving away one adapter of choice with these cameras, and there's speculation other places may follow.

However, I do agree with you about being concerned about Sony's history of dropping products and moving on to something else.  If this thing sells well though, Sony is more likely to continue to support it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:42:03 PM by Cali_PH »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 10:06:29 PM »


Not sure I want to get into this either but...for what it's worth...if a Canon shooter buys a D800(E), you can't use your Canon glass on it, which of course will normally mean a large investment in new glass.  However, there's a selection of existing adapters that fit on the A7 & A7r.  There are many videos of people already using Canon, Nikon, Leica, etc. mount lenses on the A7, so with the adapter, you can immediately use your Canon (or other) glass. 



I think that people are wrong to expect a fully functioning Canon lens on the Sony camera.  You can mount it, and perhaps it will autofocus, but will it focus accurately?  Will it track?  Which focus points work?  How accurate will the exposure be?  Can you control the aperture??
 
Sony will likely not recognize the code that a Canon lens sends to the body in order for the body to know all about the lens and make exposure and focus point selections, or control the aperture.  When you put your 85mm f/1.2 lens on the camera, can you set the aperture to f/1.2??  I'm skeptical.
 
I'd like to see some factual review of how well it works, or if its just a manual operation rather than just claims from someone who has not actually operated one.

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Re: Sony A7-A7R pre-ordered @ 200% bigger than expected
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 10:06:29 PM »