April 25, 2014, 01:18:49 AM

Author Topic: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]  (Read 23397 times)

AvTvM

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #240 on: November 27, 2013, 09:35:38 AM »
The video's title--A Tradition of Innovation

What an innovation THE 700D ;D ;D


Yes! Very innovative, Canon! From its very innovative start 71 years ago as unlicensed copycat maker of german camera designs ... all the way to 2013 with their greatest innovative triumph ever ...  the Canon Digital Kiss ... all in white!  ;D

Canon does not need a long, boring video showing off their "tradition of innovation". One picture tells the story: 
(c) Tom Fishburne  (c) http://tomfishburne.com/2012/10/cannibalize.html


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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #240 on: November 27, 2013, 09:35:38 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #241 on: November 27, 2013, 10:04:43 AM »
Canon are not in business to keep you guys happy, they are in business to keep their shareholders happy. Start thinking like that.

The stand alone stills camera market is getting smaller every year, the bread and butter money makers for both Canon and Nikon are losing sales, the P&S market is in terminal decline and the traditional core money maker, entry level DSLR's, is getting reduced sales year on year. Nikon and Sony (who's camera division loses fortunes every year) are throwing out every conceivable combination of what forum fools say they want, but when a company makes it the forumistas find enough reasons to "wait for the MkII", or "I'd get it if it was half that price".

Canon is taking a different approach and is repositioning in another camera market, Cine, a lot of time and effort has gone into the Cine range and that will be what supports our L addiction, be very thankful that the EF mount was used on the Cine cameras, without it I suspect "our" lens R&D would be a fraction of what it is. We are becoming the poor cousin, almost every lens release from here on out will be video orientated, STM not USM, slower but with IS etc etc, that is the new paradigm, get used to it or buy a Sony before they go bankrupt.
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AvTvM

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #242 on: November 27, 2013, 11:58:24 AM »
Canon are not in business to keep you guys happy, they are in business to keep their shareholders happy. Start thinking like that.


Actually it is exactly the other way round. At least for companies that want to be successful.  ;)

IF Canon wants to stay in business with me, they better think about what I want and how they keep ME happy. Otherwise I won't continue to buy from them. And the same goes for all their other customers too .. each single one of them. If they don't make 'em happy, they won 't have anything to make their shareholders happy down the line.

CUSTOMERS always come FIRST.  8)

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #243 on: November 27, 2013, 12:44:14 PM »

CUSTOMERS always come FIRST.  8)


That's right:  CUSTOMERS come first.  Customer does not.

neuroanatomist

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #244 on: November 27, 2013, 12:48:04 PM »
Canon are not in business to keep you guys happy, they are in business to keep their shareholders happy. Start thinking like that.

Actually it is exactly the other way round. At least for companies that want to be successful.  ;)

IF Canon wants to stay in business with me, they better think about what I want and how they keep ME happy. Otherwise I won't continue to buy from them. And the same goes for all their other customers too .. each single one of them. If they don't make 'em happy, they won 't have anything to make their shareholders happy down the line.

CUSTOMERS always come FIRST.

Not exactly.  CustomerS come first.  In aggregate.  Canon needs to keep a majority of the user base 'happy', or at least buying - that is one way to deliver value to shareholders.  They've clearly demonstrated the ability to do that.  If your particular wants/needs coincide with those of the majority, well and good. If not, as is clearly the case for you, then Canon doesn't really give a CRAP about YOU.
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privatebydesign

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #245 on: November 27, 2013, 12:57:30 PM »
Canon are not in business to keep you guys happy, they are in business to keep their shareholders happy. Start thinking like that.


Actually it is exactly the other way round. At least for companies that want to be successful.  ;)

IF Canon wants to stay in business with me, they better think about what I want and how they keep ME happy. Otherwise I won't continue to buy from them. And the same goes for all their other customers too .. each single one of them. If they don't make 'em happy, they won 't have anything to make their shareholders happy down the line.

CUSTOMERS always come FIRST.  8)

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6004/IADB100Z/posters/david-sipress-i-have-just-one-more-question-will-it-make-me-happy-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg


Oh you are so wrong, Canon don't care one jot about you or me as individuals, nor particularly for cameras in general, they only care about us as incidental individual contributors to market forces. If we, collectively, are not spending money on P&S's and entry level DSLR's, the cash cows from which all else is derived, then what are they to do, lament the good old days before cameras in phones and the film days when you needed a decent sized "sensor" to get any kind of image quality? Do the Sony thing of throwing any and everything out there with no consistency or system integrity at a huge loss? Go the Nikon route of trying to convince people they want something they clearly don't, stuff from which the consumer has clearly moved on. No, to protect their shareholders they are maneuvering their profit income to different product streams. We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.
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AvTvM

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #246 on: November 27, 2013, 01:33:26 PM »
We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.

hehehe! Quite funny. Next suggestion will probably be to kneel down and beg to Canon "please, please give me a new stills-oriented camera."  ::)

no way!

In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #246 on: November 27, 2013, 01:33:26 PM »

AmbientLight

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #247 on: November 27, 2013, 02:08:30 PM »
We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.

hehehe! Quite funny. Next suggestion will probably be to kneel down and beg to Canon "please, please give me a new stills-oriented camera."  ::)

no way!

In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.

Say, do you exist in some sort of distorted reality field?

Sony is not doing well financially, but at least they are fighting for corporate survival, Nikon is facing decline for years, while Canon is far more successful than any other camera or lens vendor.  :o

Looks like you may want to morph yourself into a different customer, then.  :o

neuroanatomist

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #248 on: November 27, 2013, 03:22:57 PM »
In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.

...and yet, people keep buying Canon products...and you keep whining and complaining.  I think you're clever enough to figure out which of the two of you is succeeding, and who is failing.
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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #249 on: November 27, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.

hehehe! Quite funny. Next suggestion will probably be to kneel down and beg to Canon "please, please give me a new stills-oriented camera."  ::)

no way!

In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.

It's probably time better spent taking photos than complain about how supposedly another brand takes better photos.
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9VIII

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #250 on: November 27, 2013, 06:29:16 PM »
The video's title--A Tradition of Innovation

What an innovation THE 700D ;D ;D


Yes! Very innovative, Canon! From its very innovative start 71 years ago as unlicensed copycat maker of german camera designs ... all the way to 2013 with their greatest innovative triumph ever ...  the Canon Digital Kiss ... all in white!  ;D

Canon does not need a long, boring video showing off their "tradition of innovation". One picture tells the story: 
(c) Tom Fishburne  (c) http://tomfishburne.com/2012/10/cannibalize.html


While the 700D deserves everything it gets, don't forget everything Canon has done with glass in the last few years. Had I been shopping for a high end camera in 2009 I very well may have gone for the NIkon D700, Nikon glass was very competitive at the time. But that's not when I entered the market, from what I can see Canon has very little competition right now, their recent lenses mop the floor with the competition (at least on the long end, we'll see what happens with the short end next year).



We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.


hehehe! Quite funny. Next suggestion will probably be to kneel down and beg to Canon "please, please give me a new stills-oriented camera."  ::)

no way!

In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.


If you're looking for a nice walk-around camera, sure, switching to a different company might be easy. If you want anything more specific out of your camera the number of options falls quickly, pretty much right down to 2. Compact system manufacturers simply don't have the lenses, and as I pointed out above, the nearest competitor has some catching up to do. I'm confident Canon's lens line-up can carry them for quite a while when it comes to the high end market. The real problem is cell phones.
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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #251 on: November 27, 2013, 07:17:01 PM »
We, the declining stills orientated market, are fortunate that the ideas they are moving towards are somewhat complimentary to our own "needs" for still based equipment, so far.

The customer only comes first if the company can sell the stuff they make and give their shareholders a reasonable return. If they can't they will try to find other customers, not different shareholders.


hehehe! Quite funny. Next suggestion will probably be to kneel down and beg to Canon "please, please give me a new stills-oriented camera."  ::)

no way!

In reality it is way easier for (almost all of) Canon's customers to turn around and find another supplier of excellent image capturing gear than it is for Canon to find "new customers" willing to pay inflated prices for fairly un-innovative products.


AvTvM has just become a megatroll, people. He lost the battle in the last couple of threads, officially bailed out on Canon as he moved to his wonderful new Sony and the A7r. It's his time, now, to leave these shores in search of new lands.

As with all trolls, don't touch it...don't feed it...don't SPEAK to it...and it will go away. Of course, megatrolls have an even greater appetite for touching and feeding and chitchat, so I understand it's that much harder to resist. BUT, if you want the troll to slither away to new feeding grounds, stand your ground!!   :P  ::)

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eml58

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #252 on: November 27, 2013, 07:30:59 PM »
Not exactly.  CustomerS come first.  In aggregate.  Canon needs to keep a majority of the user base 'happy', or at least buying - that is one way to deliver value to shareholders.  They've clearly demonstrated the ability to do that.  If your particular wants/needs coincide with those of the majority, well and good. If not, as is clearly the case for you, then Canon doesn't really give a CRAP about YOU.

Yes, it's a Sad truth, must be horrible for some to wake up with the realisation that one of the largest Corporates on the Planet just doesn't know who you are. Canon like many other Companies that sell a Product, sell to the Mass Market, it's very much a case of "You can't keep all of the People Happy all of the time, but we can keep most of the People Happy most of the Time".

Except AvTvM
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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #252 on: November 27, 2013, 07:30:59 PM »

jrista

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #253 on: November 27, 2013, 07:48:49 PM »
Not exactly.  CustomerS come first.  In aggregate.  Canon needs to keep a majority of the user base 'happy', or at least buying - that is one way to deliver value to shareholders.  They've clearly demonstrated the ability to do that.  If your particular wants/needs coincide with those of the majority, well and good. If not, as is clearly the case for you, then Canon doesn't really give a CRAP about YOU.

Yes, it's a Sad truth, must be horrible for some to wake up with the realisation that one of the largest Corporates on the Planet just doesn't know who you are. Canon like many other Companies that sell a Product, sell to the Mass Market, it's very much a case of "You can't keep all of the People Happy all of the time, but we can keep most of the People Happy most of the Time".

That's good business, though. Any business that tries to cater to each specific individual is doomed to fail. It isn't even something any company should ever strive to do (which is probably why so many governments are bloated and financially strapped these days, as that's exactly what they try to do, and are epically failing at it.) Good business is finding a sweet spot and exploiting it as long as you can. There isn't going to be some sudden, overnight, rapid shift to mirrorless, so Canon has plenty of time to figure out their plans for moving into the market and exploiting it the same way.

It's a harsh word, exploit, and we customers and consumers certainly don't like to be exploited. But if you think about it...look at what the likes of Canon and Nikon over the last 15 years have done for the photographic art. Look at how much image quality has skyrocketed, and how accessible that kind of image quality is now. I mean, while in the film days a camera might not have been as expensive initially, you had the perpetual cost of buying film, developing it, and getting photographic prints made. That ongoing cost kept high quality photography out of the hands of your average joe. Today is an entirely different world...thanks to companies like Canon and Nikon.

While I don't necessarily have EXACTLY the camera I PERSONALLY want with all the specific features I need at the price point I can afford...the equipment Canon does offer gives me more than enough capability to produce good photographic art. If I didn't know better, I might actually feel sad for the person who is on a never-ending quest to find that 100% perfect camera, and is willing to dump brand after brand, kit after kit, in order to find it. And, once they have finally found it, will just have to give it up again once the next big competitor on the market develops something else new, and trounces their wonderfully new found "perfect" camera. I find such an endeavor to be naive and wasteful, and a very explicit choice, so I don't feel sad for such people.

Except AvTvM

Good thing he ain't a majority, then, eh? ;)
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Roo

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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #254 on: November 28, 2013, 02:51:45 AM »

IF Canon wants to stay in business with me, they better think about what I want and how they keep ME happy.


If Canon was a car company and only listened to you I'm sure this is what we would be inflicted with...



Thank god they know how to make cameras to suit the majority and run a business successfully.  ;D
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Re: New EOS-1 in 2014 [CR1]
« Reply #254 on: November 28, 2013, 02:51:45 AM »