October 30, 2014, 08:40:05 AM

Author Topic: Uncle Terry - anyone seen / read this article outside Australia / New Zealand?  (Read 9225 times)

AAPhotog

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I think I understand both sides of this situation. Here's how I see it:

This guy is a well known sleaze. It's like the dog who bites metaphor above. If you go to "Uncle Terry" as an unknown aspiring model, and want him to shoot your modeling portfolio, you should know what he is and should not be surprised when the treats you like a whore. His reputation precedes him. Sorry, but it's the truth. You should go elsewhere.

On the other hand, if it's a paid job, and he has "creative control" and can hire whomever he chooses, and he insists on a pound of flesh, so to speak, or else you won't get the job, then that is coercion. It's unprofessional and likely also illegal in many countries.
illegal doesn't make things immoral. Although I wouldn't get women as such, I don't think it's wrong for him to work how he does(although many will disagree with me). Point is, YOU DONT HAVE TO DO THE JOB.
just like folks who want to take naked photos in the name of art. People who truly don't want to have sex with this man, won't do it under any circumstances. Forget who you are! It's like a woman wanting to kick it with the rock band, well chances are, you're going to have to give something up, do you still want to kick it with the rock band(because you liked them/ because their famous/ because they might put you in a song). If you don't want to have sex with this man, don't deal with him and blame it on him when he asked you to have sex, and you OBLIGED. whatever the reason may be. People that have principles, tend to not change them. Thats my just my 2,4,6,8 cent
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AAPhotog

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This is the last thing I'll say about it.
If someone offered a young lady 1,000 to sleep with them, and that young lady(who has the ability to turn down the offer) accepts it, do you call her a victim? No, many people would instead, call her a prostitute.
She used sex as a means of getting something she wanted. She wasn't FORCED, she simply accepted the offer.
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scottkinfw

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Here is my take.

This is the first I have heard of this guy.  I read the article. I am old enough to be thinking of my legacy, and be clear on matters of character, values, ethics, etc.  But, I wouldn't push them onto others.

That said, the problem is that he is in the position of power- he can make careers, he is older, he is "wiser" in the was of manipulation, etc.  The girls are desperate to "make it" before they get too old, and they are trusting, and they are younger.  Uncle Terry uses his professional position to prey upon these weak young victims.  He is dumb enough to publish himself.

He disgraces photography, and whatever his work, his legacy will be marred-FOREVER!. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her near this POS, and I would never want his reputation-would any of you?

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RAKAMRAK

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Everyone is chiming no, so why not me.

My take. What are the given here?

1. Some of you are claiming that he is an well known sleaze.
2. Apparently he "can make" careers, at least there is this perception among aspiring models and that is why they go to him, that is why he get the power to coerce.

I am not going to argue whether it is immoral/unethical/illegal to do what he is doing. Those are rather philosophical and legal questions. I would also not argue whether girls wanted/deserved/craved for what they got. and whether they could decide not to go to him or not.

But my point derived from the above two givens is

"Why does the modelling industry support him (or him like other sleaze bags?)"

He derives the power to exploit because of the modelling industry. Clearly the modelling "industry" as a collective does not "disapprove" his behavior - the larger "society" may. That is why there are laws (which are creations of the society at large) against blackmailing like this, but there is no such disciplining mechanism created by the modelling "industry" (or film industry against casting couch) against such behavior. Clearly the evidence says that the modelling "industry" does not consider this behavior as troublesome or wrong by the codes of that industry - that is why he can flourish and stay in business. Individual acting independently inside the modelling industry can surely dislike or disapprove him, but as a collective the "industry" does not do so.

By my moral standards he is "bad", but that is my personal opinion. As long as the industry he is in supports his behavior and does not explicitly take steps to correct it, he is just an opportunist from the perspective of that industry. The industry is equally to blame, not only Terry Richardson.
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TR has had this sleazy reputation for years.  In the age of Google, I can't believe that any model who shoots with him does not know exactly how he operates.  It seems likely that many models and clients must seek him out for this very reason, since there is nothing special about his photography.  Do you suppose some of us are secretly jealous?  LOL

I would speculate that shooting with him, then complaining later could even be a part of the model career path these days.  You know the old saying that any publicity is good publicity.  I think it works both for TR and for his alleged "victims."

Another old saying I like is: "Follow the money."   I think it applies here.

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This is why we have Age of Consent laws, and why we define at what age a person is considered to be an "Adult".  It creates a clear delineation between those who are considered by society and it's laws to be accountable for their own decisions.   For example, there's a reason we don't let children drive cars.  It's not because they aren't cable of understanding the mechanics and techniques involved.  They certainly are.  Take the recent hit show "Masterchef Junior".  8-13 year old kids were creating mastering complex dishes and desserts that were among the toughest in the world to nail perfectly even by adults, and yet they were repeatedly capable.  But where did these kids break down?  When it came to working under stress in a real, live kitchen with real consequences.  The emotional maturity simply wasn't there.  Kids would love to drive cars, but we don't let them until they have reached an average age where we consider them capable of understanding the reality and consequences of what it means to drive a lethal weapon.

The article didn't mention the age of the "young, inexperienced models...".  If they are underage according to the respective province/state's laws, then there is a clear illegal issue with some of the things alleged in the article.  But if they are considered adults, then like it or not, they are assumed to be accountable for their decisions, unless of course true blackmale can be proven.  And we are left to either be disgusted or to be indifferent of Terry's behavior, and act accordingly by either speaking out in protest, or in defense.


GmwDarkroom

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People kill me with that. Their ability to leave is irrelevant???
Theres many of photographers in this world who can make a career. Stop going to the one looking for sex. You walk by a dog that is biting everyone, you expect to get bitten. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense. FOOLISHNESS! They need to stop whining and take their "talents" elsewhere.
Yes, irrelevant.  What you can't seem to grasp is the concept of "perception" and the implication that a career could be affected.  And a career could be changed if the big-time photographer bad mouths the model or if the booking agency penalizes or dumps the model because she booked, but then bailed.  It may even be in her contract that she can't bail without penalty.

And, as I've mentioned before, the perception and interpretation is based on the victim's perception -- at least in the United States.

This is the last thing I'll say about it.
If someone offered a young lady 1,000 to sleep with them, and that young lady(who has the ability to turn down the offer) accepts it, do you call her a victim? No, many people would instead, call her a prostitute.
She used sex as a means of getting something she wanted. She wasn't FORCED, she simply accepted the offer.
And if the model was given the fact that this guy might want sexual favors up front or the agency indicated that it is part of the deal, then I'd agree with this analogy.  The difference is that the prostitute is aware of the nature of the relationship and expectations.  However, even in that case, the pimp -- or "agency" -- might feel differently about her ability to walk.

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dilbert

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"But, primarily she believes that a shift won't happen until society as a whole stops perpetuating the idea that only sex sells" - or when hell freezes over. Sex sells and sells better than anything else. Well, maybe if narcotics were legalised then they would take the top spot over sex.

AAPhotog

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People kill me with that. Their ability to leave is irrelevant???
Theres many of photographers in this world who can make a career. Stop going to the one looking for sex. You walk by a dog that is biting everyone, you expect to get bitten. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense. FOOLISHNESS! They need to stop whining and take their "talents" elsewhere.
Yes, irrelevant.  What you can't seem to grasp is the concept of "perception" and the implication that a career could be affected.  And a career could be changed if the big-time photographer bad mouths the model or if the booking agency penalizes or dumps the model because she booked, but then bailed.  It may even be in her contract that she can't bail without penalty.

And, as I've mentioned before, the perception and interpretation is based on the victim's perception -- at least in the United States.

This is the last thing I'll say about it.
If someone offered a young lady 1,000 to sleep with them, and that young lady(who has the ability to turn down the offer) accepts it, do you call her a victim? No, many people would instead, call her a prostitute.
She used sex as a means of getting something she wanted. She wasn't FORCED, she simply accepted the offer.
And if the model was given the fact that this guy might want sexual favors up front or the agency indicated that it is part of the deal, then I'd agree with this analogy.  The difference is that the prostitute is aware of the nature of the relationship and expectations.  However, even in that case, the pimp -- or "agency" -- might feel differently about her ability to walk.

So, lets say you're a heterosexual male, the only way to keep your 100,000 dollar a year occupation is to sleep with your homosexual male boss. What takes precedence?
Like I said, you don't want to, you dont have to PERIOD!
Me being a straight male will tell you, that I won't have sex with another man, EVEN IF MY JOB WAS ON THE LINE. I stand by my principles. If you would be gay simply for that occupation, then don't go and cry about it later. Yes, he was in position of power. NO, he did NOT force you to make the decision you made though. It's that simple, no matter which way you TRY and spin it. These are all adults we're talking about here.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 02:50:53 PM by AAPhotog »
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RAKAMRAK

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So, lets say you're a heterosexual male, the only way to keep your 100,000 dollar a year occupation is to sleep with your homosexual male boss. What takes precedence?
Like I said, you don't want to, you dont have to PERIOD!
Me being a straight male will tell you, that I won't have sex with another man, EVEN IF MY JOB WAS ON THE LINE. I stand by my principles. If you would be gay simply for that occupation, then don't go and cry about it later. Yes, he was in position of power. NO, he did NOT force you to make the decision you made though. It's that simple, no matter which way you TRY and spin it. These are all adults we're talking about here.

Ok, so tell me this AAPhotog, if this is the same 100,000 dollar a year occupation on line, and you do not need to sleep with your male homosexual boss, rather you have to sleep with your heterosexual female boss who is just a bit older than you. What would you do? Would your "principles" remain the same, if not then the example that you game is misleading and not appropriate in the present case.
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AAPhotog

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So, lets say you're a heterosexual male, the only way to keep your 100,000 dollar a year occupation is to sleep with your homosexual male boss. What takes precedence?
Like I said, you don't want to, you dont have to PERIOD!
Me being a straight male will tell you, that I won't have sex with another man, EVEN IF MY JOB WAS ON THE LINE. I stand by my principles. If you would be gay simply for that occupation, then don't go and cry about it later. Yes, he was in position of power. NO, he did NOT force you to make the decision you made though. It's that simple, no matter which way you TRY and spin it. These are all adults we're talking about here.

Ok, so tell me this AAPhotog, if this is the same 100,000 dollar a year occupation on line, and you do not need to sleep with your male homosexual boss, rather you have to sleep with your heterosexual female boss who is just a bit older than you. What would you do? Would your "principles" remain the same, if not then the example that you game is misleading and not appropriate in the present case.
If it is an older woman that I WANTED to sleep with, yes, I would. If it is someone that I would HATE to sleep with, someone who would HAVE to coerce me into sleeping with them, then no, I wouldn't. Like I said, my ideologies and principles would always remain the same. Some people CHOOSE to change them depending on the circumstance. I personally wouldn't, but I'm not going to say it's a bad thing. It's only a bad thing in my eyes, if someone CHOOSES to change them based on a situation, and then cries fowl play later on.


PS. if I were to sleep with someone for money, or position, who I normally wouldn't for no reason at all, can I really blame the individual I slept with??? I am the one who chose to oblige, based on the money or position offered.

Anyone seen Terry put a gun to a womans head? Duct tape or hand cuff a woman? Knock a woman unconcious???
I haven't seen, nor heard of it. These are grown women. Don't blame the state of the business simply because these women are crying out after the fact. They could have stood on their principles when it mattered, maybe then the business wouldn't be as it is???

I'm not with picking up drunk women, as a matter of fact, I don't drink and dont like my women to either. But this sounds like the girls who has a girls night out, has a few shots, then goes and looks for a guy to take home and have sex with. Wakes up in the morning and calls foul play. But hey, when you're a woman, I guess most people don't care about the facts or circumstance, only that they were women "taken advantage of"
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 06:06:15 PM by AAPhotog »
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AAPhotog

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He gets away with it because people let him get away with it.

Unless there are guns held at heads, nobody has to do anything.

It's uneasy reading, but I don't think Obama had to charm his snake or the attention seeking Miley Ray Cyrus.
"Hey, great, more notoriety"

I've not seen any of his work, and even I had, I don't get a lot of the high art, high fashion stuff that other folk seem to rate.  Nor is he likely to ask me to kiss his willy, and I'm even less likely to.

I think the moral is, if somebody asks you to kiss their willy and you don't want to, then don't.

That sums it up!
But, as far as his work, not so good imo.
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eml58

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He disgraces photography, and whatever his work, his legacy will be marred-FOREVER!. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her near this POS, and I would never want his reputation-would any of you?

Completely agree, especially the POS part.
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paul13walnut5

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If anybody feels they have not consented their first port of call is the police. 

They can't help with careers right enough, only if a crime of non-consensual sex has taken place.

Being seduced by power or reputation or career prospects may not stand up, if you excuse the pun, in a court of law.

That said, in general -and drawing no inference from this discussion- if any person is actually proven to have raped anybody I hope they get 15 years in a really bad prison.

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I don't blame him. I blame the womens love of fame.
I have heard many of stories of him using his name to have sex with women(but how many famous people don't???)
I have NEVER heard of him FORCING himself on someone.


Terry - "Yes I'll shoot you, but can we sleep together"
Model - "Yes, why not, if it'll get me the in front of your camera"

I don't see what the problem is, if she chose to sleep with him based on his name in the business, she's just as bad as he is. They are BOTH the cause of the problem, I don't see either being a victim. Fair exchange is no robbery.

Do you think the ceo who hires the sexy blonde receptionist because she wears revealing outfits to work a sleaze as well???


One thing I DONT understand is why everyone supports his work when it isn't good in my opinion.
My iphone with flash can create the same photos without me even looking. simply point and click
If there was no coercion, then yes the situation is "merely" unprofessional and inappropriate.  The perception of coercion on the part of the recipient is all that matters.

However a person in a position of power to affect the career of another insinuating or outright stating that sex will further their career or the refusal will damage the career IS sexual harassment and coercion.  The ability or inability of the victim to leave the situation is IRRELEVANT to the offense.  The alleged activities in the article suggest that young models felt trapped by his advances because of the potential for career damage.

Lots of careers deal with people who can make or break those who work for them.  The fact that someone can walk away doesn't mean the decision can't affect a career and doesn't make the situation not illegal.
People kill me with that. Their ability to leave is irrelevant???
Theres many of photographers in this world who can make a career. Stop going to the one looking for sex. You walk by a dog that is biting everyone, you expect to get bitten. Sounds like a bunch of nonsense. FOOLISHNESS! They need to stop whining and take their "talents" elsewhere.
If you ever get a daughter, I am pretty sure you will change your twisted view. Qhat he is doing ia a crime in many countries, even where it isn't, it is still abuse.

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