November 26, 2014, 06:20:45 PM

Author Topic: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]  (Read 9137 times)

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Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« on: November 25, 2013, 12:36:40 PM »

Dual Pixel technology more than just AF?

NL reports that they’ve been told to expect even more new features from Canon’s Dual Pixel technology other than autofocus. Currently the tech appears in the EOS 70D and will also appear in an upgraded EOS C100. Will the C300 get a similar upgrade?


Apparently dual pixel design will need the latest generation of processing (DIGIC 6/7?) technology to realize its full potential. The benefits of this alongside new CODECS will be seen in the next Cinema EOS cameras and possibly in new high end DSLRs.


The video and stills segments of the professional lineup will get upgrades in 2014. Cinema EOS will get it first, and possibly be shown in April at NAB 2014 in Las Vegas. DSLRs will get it in the second half of the year and will most likely be shown at Photokina 2014 in Cologne, Germany.


Source: [NL]


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Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« on: November 25, 2013, 12:36:40 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 12:55:22 PM »
I expect that future generations will have a lot more features, it was apparently pretty difficult to get the first version working, but it has gained acceptance and has good reviews, so maybe we will see tracking, and even replace the phase detect for lower end DSLR's.  That will cut the cost to make them.

Right now, there are plenty of weak points even with such a good start.

Ruined

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 01:18:34 PM »
I wonder if this will be seen in the 6D2 next year?  6D2 needs new autofocus system by far the most out of all the FF cameras, plus it will be a good testbed before they put it in the higher end cameras.

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 01:41:51 PM »
6D2 next year? No. Try '15 or '16

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 02:13:12 PM »
Trying to imagine what the uses might be.

I don't know if this is possible, but it would be fantastic if the technology could be used to eliminate the need to micro adjust lenses.

Photographer points camera at a target (high contrast image with sharp lines, such as a block of type).  Focusing pixels feed information back to camera,which displays a message telling photographer what setting to micro adjust the camera to for that lens.

Since the dual pixels are used to gather focusing data, are there other kinds of data they can gather and incorporate?

Could this be used for noise reduction, higher resolution, dynamic range etc. etc.

It would certainly disappoint many on this forum if Canon were to leapfrog the competition utilizing this new technology.




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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 02:15:12 PM »
6D2 next year? No. Try '15 or '16

Do you think they are perhaps referencing 7D2?

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 02:16:42 PM »
Higher Dynamic range?? Would be an obvious choice.

1 Pixel pulls low info, 1 pixel pulls high..


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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 02:16:42 PM »

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 02:33:01 PM »
Higher Dynamic range?? Would be an obvious choice.

1 Pixel pulls low info, 1 pixel pulls high..

Yea, that's what I was thinking. Especially ever since Magic Lantern started doing that with the dual-readout line skipping on the 5d3. Not quite the same thing, but if the dual-pixel setup lets them have a different read-out/amp for each photosite per bayer CFA point...that'd be pretty awesome. Remains to be seen if they can maintain the good high ISO performance as they are essentially cutting the size of each photosite in half.
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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 02:43:21 PM »
Higher Dynamic range?? Would be an obvious choice.

1 Pixel pulls low info, 1 pixel pulls high..

Yea, that's what I was thinking. Especially ever since Magic Lantern started doing that with the dual-readout line skipping on the 5d3. Not quite the same thing, but if the dual-pixel setup lets them have a different read-out/amp for each photosite per bayer CFA point...that'd be pretty awesome. Remains to be seen if they can maintain the good high ISO performance as they are essentially cutting the size of each photosite in half.

HDR is almost a given..... but with 20 million plus focus points and gobs more computing power you can expect to see object tracking autofocus that puts the capabilities of the 1DX to shame...
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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 02:49:39 PM »
What are the possible effects on better high ISO IQ with this tech? Let's say: in the 25k - 51k range?
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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 02:52:11 PM »
Regarding HDR, as pointed out, the chip architecture must support separate amplifier circuitry for each sub-pixel, and there will be a noise penalty (base ISO will effectively be 200, but current HTP is similar, so it would be like HTP on steroids). 
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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 03:39:37 PM »
I wonder if this will be seen in the 6D2 next year?  6D2 needs new autofocus system by far the most out of all the FF cameras, plus it will be a good testbed before they put it in the higher end cameras.

If there is a 6d2 in 2014 my bet is that it will *not* get a new or significantly better phase af system - why should Canon waste a main selling point of the even more expensive dslrs?

What will probably happen that the live view dual pixel af is supposed to "fix" this shortcoming and is expected to be used as the video and some stills af system for amateurs just like on the 70d.

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 03:43:30 PM »
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<p><strong>Dual Pixel technology more than just AF?<br />

</strong><a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html\">NL</a> reports that they’ve been told to expect even more new features from Canon’s Dual Pixel technology other than autofocus. Currently the tech appears in the <a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/986389-REG/canon_8469b002_canon_eos_70d_dslr.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296\" target=\"_blank\">EOS 70D </a>and will also appear in an upgraded <a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889545-REG/Canon_EOS_C100_EF_Cinema.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296\" target=\"_blank\">EOS C100</a>. Will the <a href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/from-interbee-interview-with-the-head-of-cinema-eos/\" target=\"_blank\">C300 get a similar upgrade</a>?</p>
<p>Apparently dual pixel design will need the latest generation of processing (DIGIC 6/7?) technology to realize its full potential. The benefits of this alongside new CODECS will be seen in the next Cinema EOS cameras and possibly in new high end DSLRs.</p>
<p>The video and stills segments of the professional lineup will get upgrades in 2014. Cinema EOS will get it first, and possibly be shown in April at NAB 2014 in Las Vegas. DSLRs will get it in the second half of the year and will most likely be shown at Photokina 2014 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html\" target=\"_blank\">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>


"DSLRs will get it in the second half of the year" means the 7D2.

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 03:43:30 PM »

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 04:44:44 PM »
>but if the dual-pixel setup lets them have a different read-out/amp for each photosite
>per bayer CFA point...that'd be pretty awesome. Remains to be seen if they can maintain
>the good high ISO performance as they are essentially cutting the size of each photosite in half.

They don't have to. While increased ISO's are used, you could switch back to use both diodes together as a bigger one. Or you could do 2 frames while the mirror is up, one with pushed/pulled sensors and then one with normal sensitiviy. Rendered together gives you more Range with the same ISO.

There are a lot of possibilities in here because you can do a lot of mathematical variations in realtime. You could even get rid of the AA-Filter with comparing 2 different pictures, captured with one or another sensor-pixel. They already wrote of the Digic6+7, needed for the increasing data/algorithms ;))

I don't think they will remove the AF-Modul from the higher spec-Kameras... you can't compare some phasedetecting pixels on the chip with a dedicated AF-Sensor. The areas are much bigger and more precisely... especially in the dark. But you could do nearly silent cameras for shootings, the mirror doesn't have to move upwards.
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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 04:48:40 PM »
Thing I'm excited about in that post: new codecs.

Thing I hope dual pixel AF tech will do: reduce rolling shutter in video (faster CMOS read/reset speed)

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Re: Just Touching the Surface of Dual Pixel Technology? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 04:48:40 PM »