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Author Topic: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase  (Read 4616 times)

sunnyVan

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Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« on: November 25, 2013, 01:59:58 PM »
I am looking for a system that would work on both my 24-70 and 17-40 lenses. Is there anything that won't give vignetting on my ultrawide?  I also want something that would let me manually adjust where the transition would be.  I've heard that there are hard, soft transition.  What type should i get?  I don't have a big budget.  Ideally something around $100 would be nice. Thanks for your help. 
6D, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 F4L IS, 17-40L, 100 2.8L, 70-200L F4 IS, 85 1.8, 135L, Sigma 35 1.4, 600Ex-RT, Rokinon 14mm, EOS M

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Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« on: November 25, 2013, 01:59:58 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 02:14:50 PM »
I am looking for a system that would work on both my 24-70 and 17-40 lenses. Is there anything that won't give vignetting on my ultrawide?  I also want something that would let me manually adjust where the transition would be.  I've heard that there are hard, soft transition.  What type should i get?  I don't have a big budget.  Ideally something around $100 would be nice. Thanks for your help.

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 

That budget, you're looking at Cokin most likely.  Even there, while you'd be better off with the Z-Pro system (100mm filters), you can get away with the P system.  The regular holder will vignette at the wide end of the 17-40, there a wide angle P holder for a single filter that should work.  The P grad NDs are 85x100mm, so you have a little flexibility in the transition (15-20mm up and down, not as much as the Lee with >50mm up and down). 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/hands-reviews/cokin-creative-filter-system
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sunnyVan

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 02:22:46 PM »
I am looking for a system that would work on both my 24-70 and 17-40 lenses. Is there anything that won't give vignetting on my ultrawide?  I also want something that would let me manually adjust where the transition would be.  I've heard that there are hard, soft transition.  What type should i get?  I don't have a big budget.  Ideally something around $100 would be nice. Thanks for your help.

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 

That budget, you're looking at Cokin most likely.  Even there, while you'd be better off with the Z-Pro system (100mm filters), you can get away with the P system.  The regular holder will vignette at the wide end of the 17-40, there a wide angle P holder for a single filter that should work.  The P grad NDs are 85x100mm, so you have a little flexibility in the transition (15-20mm up and down, not as much as the Lee with >50mm up and down). 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/photography/hands-reviews/cokin-creative-filter-system

Thanks Neuroanatomist.  Great link. Maybe this is good enough for now. 
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wayno

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 02:43:55 PM »
Cokin P vignettes unacceptably with the 82mm adaptor AND UWA adaptor on the 24-70ii but works ok on the 24-70 from memory. Cokin P vignettes just noticeably on the 17-40 but is quite acceptable.

I would only recommend Cokin Z Pro (or Lee) if using the 24-70ii. Works fine on that.

I'm sure Lee is constructionally better but I've found the Cokin Z pro system to be more than adequate and works well.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 02:58:27 PM »
Cokin P vignettes unacceptably with the 82mm adaptor AND UWA adaptor on the 24-70ii

The OP stated just 24-70, but looking back the 24-70 II is what should have been stated.  The bigger front element of the MkII is going to be an issue with the Cokin P, as it would with the 16-35L II.

Cokin Z will still exceed the OP's budget (holder, 77mm and 82mm adapters will be ~$150 with no filters, Cokin Z grad NDs are ~$70 each), but that's likely the best budget option.
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sunnyVan

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 03:20:55 PM »
Cokin P vignettes unacceptably with the 82mm adaptor AND UWA adaptor on the 24-70ii

The OP stated just 24-70, but looking back the 24-70 II is what should have been stated.  The bigger front element of the MkII is going to be an issue with the Cokin P, as it would with the 16-35L II.

Cokin Z will still exceed the OP's budget (holder, 77mm and 82mm adapters will be ~$150 with no filters, Cokin Z grad NDs are ~$70 each), but that's likely the best budget option.

Oh yea. My bad.

One more question.  Are these filters truly neutral?  No color cast at all?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 03:25:30 PM »
One more question.  Are these filters truly neutral?  No color cast at all?

From what I've read, no.  That's one reason I recommended Lee at the outset.
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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 03:25:30 PM »

takesome1

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 03:33:04 PM »

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 



Can't afford the system?
By the filter by itself and hand hold, works fine and I have done it for years.
When you get the money buy the Lee System.

sunnyVan

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 03:58:37 PM »
One more question.  Are these filters truly neutral?  No color cast at all?

From what I've read, no.  That's one reason I recommended Lee at the outset.

No a bad idea.  But I may have problems with long exposure shots.
6D, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 F4L IS, 17-40L, 100 2.8L, 70-200L F4 IS, 85 1.8, 135L, Sigma 35 1.4, 600Ex-RT, Rokinon 14mm, EOS M

sunnyVan

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 09:49:16 AM »

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 



Can't afford the system?
By the filter by itself and hand hold, works fine and I have done it for years.
When you get the money buy the Lee System.

You know what.  I am going to follow your advice with some modification.  I'm gonna get a z pro holder and one Gnd filter. And then I'll tape it to my lens so that I don't have to get two adapters. This should be ok for now.
6D, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 F4L IS, 17-40L, 100 2.8L, 70-200L F4 IS, 85 1.8, 135L, Sigma 35 1.4, 600Ex-RT, Rokinon 14mm, EOS M

takesome1

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 10:00:22 AM »

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 



Can't afford the system?
By the filter by itself and hand hold, works fine and I have done it for years.
When you get the money buy the Lee System.

You know what.  I am going to follow your advice with some modification.  I'm gonna get a z pro holder and one Gnd filter. And then I'll tape it to my lens so that I don't have to get two adapters. This should be ok for now.

I have the lee holder, and often it is more trouble than it is worth.

There are several video tutorials on how to hand hold graduated filters. How to Hand Hold Grad ND Filters  This is just one. I have stacked them and held them for long exposures. The ability to put the graduated at different angles is an advantage of handholding. With a holder your stacked filters are in line. As long as you are aware that you need to keep your fingers out of the picture it works fine. Another advantage is the use of a CPL. You can hand hold over top of a mounted CPL.

Give it a try, the thing is if it doesn't work you, you have lost nothing. You had to buy the filter anyway.

My logic in a finance limited situation would be that I would rather have a high quality filter over a low quality filter and holder.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:04:26 AM by takesome1 »

sunnyVan

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 10:33:01 AM »

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 



Can't afford the system?
By the filter by itself and hand hold, works fine and I have done it for years.
When you get the money buy the Lee System.

You know what.  I am going to follow your advice with some modification.  I'm gonna get a z pro holder and one Gnd filter. And then I'll tape it to my lens so that I don't have to get two adapters. This should be ok for now.

I have the lee holder, and often it is more trouble than it is worth.

There are several video tutorials on how to hand hold graduated filters. How to Hand Hold Grad ND Filters  This is just one. I have stacked them and held them for long exposures. The ability to put the graduated at different angles is an advantage of handholding. With a holder your stacked filters are in line. As long as you are aware that you need to keep your fingers out of the picture it works fine. Another advantage is the use of a CPL. You can hand hold over top of a mounted CPL.

Give it a try, the thing is if it doesn't work you, you have lost nothing. You had to buy the filter anyway.

My logic in a finance limited situation would be that I would rather have a high quality filter over a low quality filter and holder.


I think you're right.  There's nothing to lose since I need the filter anyway. Now the question is Lee vs. Cokin.
6D, 24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 F4L IS, 17-40L, 100 2.8L, 70-200L F4 IS, 85 1.8, 135L, Sigma 35 1.4, 600Ex-RT, Rokinon 14mm, EOS M

takesome1

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 12:43:31 PM »
or Singh-Ray :)

As long as the filter will fit the holder you will have in the future, you can get whichever brand you think best.

I have mostly Singh-Ray and have a Lee holder.

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 12:43:31 PM »

JustMeOregon

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2013, 04:52:19 PM »

Since you're looking at grad ND filters, the Lee system is the best option…no way you'll get in for $100, though. 



Can't afford the system?
By the filter by itself and hand hold, works fine and I have done it for years.
When you get the money buy the Lee System.

You know what.  I am going to follow your advice with some modification.  I'm gonna get a z pro holder and one Gnd filter. And then I'll tape it to my lens so that I don't have to get two adapters. This should be ok for now.

I have the lee holder, and often it is more trouble than it is worth.

There are several video tutorials on how to hand hold graduated filters. How to Hand Hold Grad ND Filters  This is just one. I have stacked them and held them for long exposures. The ability to put the graduated at different angles is an advantage of handholding. With a holder your stacked filters are in line. As long as you are aware that you need to keep your fingers out of the picture it works fine. Another advantage is the use of a CPL. You can hand hold over top of a mounted CPL.

Give it a try, the thing is if it doesn't work you, you have lost nothing. You had to buy the filter anyway.

My logic in a finance limited situation would be that I would rather have a high quality filter over a low quality filter and holder.

Don't you run the risk of scratching the resin filter by moving it while your holding it up against the front of your lens?

takesome1

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 08:24:34 PM »


Don't you run the risk of scratching the resin filter by moving it while your holding it up against the front of your lens?

Maybe, but all my filters are still pristine. It hasn't happened to me yet.

When I first started using these kind of filters I bought several Singh-Ray filters and the Cokin P kit with 3 filters.
I thought the Cokin was a fair price for less than $100. When I had the Singh-Ray and the Cokin side by side it was obvious that the Cokin was not only fair priced but "cheap". The quality isn't even close, I would rather take a chance scratching a quality filter and the scratch affect the IQ than buy a cheap filter that will affect IQ.

Besides the logic here is work with what you can afford toward getting the filter holder later.

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Re: Pls help me with my 1st graduated ND filters purchase
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 08:24:34 PM »