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Author Topic: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping  (Read 6587 times)

Canon1

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2013, 05:27:34 PM »
What was your shutter speed Alan?

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2013, 05:27:34 PM »

Hannes

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2013, 05:35:05 PM »
I imagine the results may look different if you didn't have the 2x converter on which will limit resolution a lot

takesome1

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2013, 05:56:43 PM »
It is not just the camera hardware you should compare but the firmware as well.
Testing at the same PP settings do not do this.

The 7D files have more room for improvement and sharpness in post processing.
A test that would compare the two bodies fairly would be a test of the photographs after normal PP.

That is not to say you will find anything much different that others have already found or that you believe you found.
These type of tests have been done over and over ever since the 7D was released.

When and if a 7D II ever arrives I am sure we will get to see a whole new series of comparisons and tests.


« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 05:59:53 PM by takesome1 »

Skulker

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2013, 06:06:57 PM »
Interesting post. Your results are much like what I get in so much as I generally like the results from the 5D3 over the 7D.

The only one I found surprising was the second were the 7D seems to have an advantage in low light. That's not what I find.

Thanks for sharing your results its interesting to see real world results rather than people trying to justify their opinion of the spec sheet.  ;D
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

Don Haines

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2013, 06:36:37 PM »
Your results are similar to what I found on a comparison between the 5D2 and the 60D using a 300F4..... The 5D2 was better in closer while the 60D was better on far away items.... What I really found shocking was that for very far away subjects, the SX50 outperformed both!

I have to get one of those, I go on back country canoe trips and it would be perfect for wildlife. I think Panasonic makes one with a faster lens but the canon is 24-1200 equivelant, hokely smokely!

While I like the incredible zoom range on the SX-50, be warned that as a p/s camera it has a long lag time when you press the shutter, it takes a long time between pictures, the ergonomics S__K compared to a DSLR, you WILL have to do noise reduction on SX-50 pictures, and it's EVF is most definitely NOT current technology.... That said, you can pull off some good shots if you get used to it...

The following comparison shots are between a 60D with a 70-200 at 200mm and the SX-50 set to 1200mm(equivalent). The first shot is the full frame from the 60D, the second shot is the full frame from the SX-50 (both scaled to fit here), the third shot is the jay from the 60D cropped to 800 pixels wide, the fourth shot is the jay from the SX-50 cropped to 800 pixels wide.

There are conditions where a p/s can beat a DSLR and a chunk of L-glasss :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 06:38:11 PM by Don Haines »
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candc

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2013, 07:12:12 PM »
How does It do at the wide end, landscape shooting? I use a waterproof DSC tx-5 now and its pretty good, the Dr is not the best but I am pleased with otherwise but it does not get out very far
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 08:09:56 PM by candc »

9VIII

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »
Very interesting, I have to wonder how a more recent crop sensor would have performed, and what the results off the bare 300f2.8 would be like.
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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »

pdirestajr

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2013, 01:02:15 AM »
In conclusion: all of these modern fancy cameras are pretty good!
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AprilForever

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2013, 02:36:39 AM »
The 5D III is a model generation newer...

Also, on the 7D examples, you have focus issues in the first one of the great blue heron, and motion blur in the second, it appears....
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gekko

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2013, 03:42:47 AM »
You seem to have some focus issues on your 7D with that lens combination. Maybe some AFMA would help?
If I had taken such out of focus pictures with my 7D they would have gone straight in the bin.
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AlanF

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2013, 06:58:43 AM »
Misunderstandings always build up in threads because people come in at the end without reading the earlier posts. All of these images are for quick comparisons done under the normal conditions I, and many others, would use for amateur bird photography. The results are of use to me and for some others who may be similarly wondering whether to keep their 7D now they have a 5DIII or whether they should sell their old 7D to buy a new camera. The conditions are not what the perfect ones that TDP etc use for a scientific comparisons, but sub-optimal conditions used in every day life.

1.   The title says exactly what is going on – cropped images for bird photography at 600mm for a 5DIII vs 7D. It is not a scientific survey of FF vs crop under all conditions for all lenses and all bodies. The 7D is not a representative of all crop cameras. Its sharpness will depend on the sensor’s characteristics  - for example its AA filter. The comparison is done for heavy crops from both systems to the same size, not for landscapes etc.
2.   I said at the beginning that the photos were not very good. These photos are for comparison purposes under the same set of conditions, not choosing the best photos taken on a particular camera under optimal conditions. They are not the highly selected best ones taken, of which one is proud - I have plenty of fine keepers from both cameras. So no snide comments please about how you would have discarded them immediately.
3.   Regarding focus problems. The lenses have all been AFMA-ed with the bodies using both Focal and sloping ruler tests. There are issues with the AF of the 7D – many posters find that it is erratic. Motion blur is unlikely – the one of the grey (not blue) heron is representative of a group of shots that were all similar, taken at 1/1250 s and 4 stops of IS, with the camera still and resting on a ledge.

If I want to take a photo of the moon, then my 600mm on my 7D with a good tripod etc will out-resolve the same lens on my 5DIII. But, what I wanted to know the answer for is how much of the advantage of crop on the 7D is realised in 90% of what I take. The answer is that the 5DIII is better. But, the situation might change with a 7DII. And then a 5DIIII might reverse it.
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J.R.

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2013, 07:30:57 AM »

2.   I said at the beginning that the photos were not very good. These photos are for comparison purposes under the same set of conditions, not choosing the best photos taken on a particular camera under optimal conditions. They are not the highly selected best ones taken, of which one is proud - I have plenty of fine keepers from both cameras. So no snide comments please about how you would have discarded them immediately.

That exactly is the point ... isn't it? To see the IQ differences in both cameras, you need to test the limits to see which one does better.

Shoot the same subject in good light at ISO 100 and I very much doubt whether you will see much difference between FF and an(y) APS-C. It's only when the lighting gets a bit murky that the 5D3 pulls away.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 07:33:50 AM by J.R. »
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docsmith

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2013, 07:32:58 AM »
Thanks for posting Alan.  I am one of the people in a similar boat.  I ran my own tests, not quite as good as yours and ultimately concluded that cropping the 5DIII was good enough compared to the 7D.

Both are excellent cameras.  But as a hobbyist, I haven't yet found justification for keeping two dSLRs.  I am in the process of selling my 7D.  My "body kit" will be the 5DIII and EOS-M.

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2013, 07:32:58 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2013, 08:12:28 AM »
Misunderstandings always build up in threads because people come in at the end without reading the earlier posts. All of these images are for quick comparisons done under the normal conditions I, and many others, would use for amateur bird photography. The results are of use to me and for some others who may be similarly wondering whether to keep their 7D now they have a 5DIII or whether they should sell their old 7D to buy a new camera. The conditions are not what the perfect ones that TDP etc use for a scientific comparisons, but sub-optimal conditions used in every day life.

1.   The title says exactly what is going on – cropped images for bird photography at 600mm for a 5DIII vs 7D. It is not a scientific survey of FF vs crop under all conditions for all lenses and all bodies. The 7D is not a representative of all crop cameras. Its sharpness will depend on the sensor’s characteristics  - for example its AA filter. The comparison is done for heavy crops from both systems to the same size, not for landscapes etc.
2.   I said at the beginning that the photos were not very good. These photos are for comparison purposes under the same set of conditions, not choosing the best photos taken on a particular camera under optimal conditions. They are not the highly selected best ones taken, of which one is proud - I have plenty of fine keepers from both cameras. So no snide comments please about how you would have discarded them immediately.
3.   Regarding focus problems. The lenses have all been AFMA-ed with the bodies using both Focal and sloping ruler tests. There are issues with the AF of the 7D – many posters find that it is erratic. Motion blur is unlikely – the one of the grey (not blue) heron is representative of a group of shots that were all similar, taken at 1/1250 s and 4 stops of IS, with the camera still and resting on a ledge.

If I want to take a photo of the moon, then my 600mm on my 7D with a good tripod etc will out-resolve the same lens on my 5DIII. But, what I wanted to know the answer for is how much of the advantage of crop on the 7D is realised in 90% of what I take. The answer is that the 5DIII is better. But, the situation might change with a 7DII. And then a 5DIIII might reverse it.

Hi Alan,

First and foremost, thank you for the images and comparisons. Many (hopefully) of us understand that it is a quick test and as such, the images will not be perfect.... but then, that's kind of the purpose of the test.... if you had posted perfect images taken with both cameras the comparison would have been worthless.

I do not believe in absolute statements about this camera against that camera as there will always be specific cases to the contrary, but no matter how hard people argue those specific cases the generalities remain.

In general, the bigger the sensor the better the camera performs in low light.

In general, FF outperforms APS-C for wide angle photography.

In general, on distant object photography UNDER GOOD LIGHT APS-C will outperform FF

In general, FF is more tolerant of lens resolution limitations than APS-C

How it comes together for any individual is a mix of all those factors and a lot more.... but from what I can gather of your pictures they seem within what those rules of thumb would suggest.
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AlanF

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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2013, 08:50:17 AM »

2.   I said at the beginning that the photos were not very good. These photos are for comparison purposes under the same set of conditions, not choosing the best photos taken on a particular camera under optimal conditions. They are not the highly selected best ones taken, of which one is proud - I have plenty of fine keepers from both cameras. So no snide comments please about how you would have discarded them immediately.

That exactly is the point ... isn't it? To see the IQ differences in both cameras, you need to test the limits to see which one does better.

Shoot the same subject in good light at ISO 100 and I very much doubt whether you will see much difference between FF and an(y) APS-C. It's only when the lighting gets a bit murky that the 5D3 pulls away.

iso 100 with a 600mm telephoto lens is not often suitable for bird photography. iso 100 would mean restricting our photography to just when we had well sunlit, stationary birds. For birds in flight and much of the time we need fast speeds (near dawn and dusk, shade, rapidly moving subjects, camera shake when hand holding). The iso 640 that was used is not excessive for the 7D.
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Re: 5dIII vs 7D shoot out for bird photography at 600mm and cropping
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2013, 08:50:17 AM »