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Author Topic: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America  (Read 14144 times)

Bob Howland

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2013, 09:43:39 PM »
For one thing, in the USA there is no way that an end to launched at $800 could compete with the current M priced $500 cheaper.  There seem to be quite a few of those in retail channels right now.

And it certainly doesn't help that an SL1 body can currently be purchased from B&H for $500. The marketing of the M system has been one botch job after another.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2013, 09:43:39 PM »

Woody

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2013, 09:48:14 PM »
Given that the original M flopped in the US, Canon may feel that the M2 is not attractive enough for the American market. I'm confident that the articulated screen and sensor from the 70D (or at least their technologies) will make it in to a premium mirrorless camera next year. Its just such an obvious step for Canon to take.

Their may be 1 more generation left in DSLRs but with EVFs offering features that OVFs can't the mirror's days are looking numbered.

The EOS M is selling very well in USA now. In fact, much better than Nikon's 1 offerings. :)

As for EVFs... until they can offer the same quick response, dynamic range and brightness as OVFs, mirrorless options are no-go for me. The fact that DSLRs outsell mirrorless cameras by 9.5:1 (8.5 in Europe), it appears that most folks agree with my assessment. :)

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2013, 09:50:38 PM »
Their may be 1 more generation left in DSLRs but with EVFs offering features that OVFs can't the mirror's days are looking numbered.

I think there are still a lot of features of OVF that EVF can't match which are particularly useful to most photographers.  OVF is still better in low light and has infinitely faster refresh.  Yes, I think EVF is more helpful when it comes to finding the correct exposure but you can't say that you can't trust your camera's own metering especially if you know how to effectively use spot metering.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2013, 10:04:42 PM »
The 5D3 and its sensor are more than good enough.  It does a great job for some of the best photographers in some of the most demanding situations.  Those photographers are no fools and neither are their clients or publishers.  Sure, the 5D3 sensor may not meet the standards of a few sensor critics in online forums, but for actual photography it is fantastic.  Canon sensors reached the point of "good enough" about 11 years ago when they were good enough to replace film cameras for many pro & amateur photographers.  Since then, they've been refined many times, especially for high ISO.  Of course they will continue to improve.

Problem is it's all about relative performance. We can argue that anything is enough for somebody, but right now here are better choices. 5D3 is more than enough for someone yes, and original 1Ds and 5D is more than enough for someone. Shall we just let the innovation die and stick to whatever we have 10 years ago? I don't like the thought of that.

The more Canon stagnate, the more unsatisfied it's user base will become. Sure you can 'convince yourself' but it's the same question of how long are you going to hold on to it while you see 'other guys' doing more and more thing that you can't.

I predict that they won't stagnate, but only time will tell.  In the meantime, there is no need to convince anyone that the 5D3 sensor is good enough.  That is proven by photographers every day.  I welcome any improvements, but the current sensor certainly meets my needs, as well as the needs of photographers in far more demanding situations.  I don't see "other guys'' doing anything more or anything I can't.  If you find some extra dynamic range at low ISO makes a big honking difference in your photography, then by all means go for that sensor and consider the Canon platform "not viable" as you say.  I don't see photography as some kind of race where the "other guy" is going to "win" because of low ISO dynamic range.  Somehow, the Canon platform remains viable for some of the biggest names in photography, but what do they know?  Perhaps this little M2 will drive them away from Canon too ... ;)

RobertP

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2013, 10:13:51 PM »
Given that the original M flopped in the US, Canon may feel that the M2 is not attractive enough for the American market. I'm confident that the articulated screen and sensor from the 70D (or at least their technologies) will make it in to a premium mirrorless camera next year. Its just such an obvious step for Canon to take.

Their may be 1 more generation left in DSLRs but with EVFs offering features that OVFs can't the mirror's days are looking numbered.

The EOS M is selling very well in USA now. In fact, much better than Nikon's 1 offerings. :)

As for EVFs... until they can offer the same quick response, dynamic range and brightness as OVFs, mirrorless options are no-go for me. The fact that DSLRs outsell mirrorless cameras by 9.5:1 (8.5 in Europe), it appears that most folks agree with my assessment. :)

You're comparing today's mirror with today's EVF. I'm suggesting that the 5D Mark IV, when it arrives, will have a mirror but it will be the last in the line.  When a 5D Mark V is due circa 2018 EVFs will have been refined to the point where the drawbacks have been minimised and that 9:1 ratio will have been reversed.

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2013, 10:39:18 PM »
Given that the original M flopped in the US, Canon may feel that the M2 is not attractive enough for the American market. I'm confident that the articulated screen and sensor from the 70D (or at least their technologies) will make it in to a premium mirrorless camera next year. Its just such an obvious step for Canon to take.

Their may be 1 more generation left in DSLRs but with EVFs offering features that OVFs can't the mirror's days are looking numbered.

The EOS M is selling very well in USA now. In fact, much better than Nikon's 1 offerings. :)

As for EVFs... until they can offer the same quick response, dynamic range and brightness as OVFs, mirrorless options are no-go for me. The fact that DSLRs outsell mirrorless cameras by 9.5:1 (8.5 in Europe), it appears that most folks agree with my assessment. :)

You're comparing today's mirror with today's EVF. I'm suggesting that the 5D Mark IV, when it arrives, will have a mirror but it will be the last in the line.  When a 5D Mark V is due circa 2018 EVFs will have been refined to the point where the drawbacks have been minimised and that 9:1 ratio will have been reversed.

Well, by 2018 the gap may have closed, but there is no way a 9:1 ratio of DSLR sales to mirrorless sales will "reverse"...to become a 1:9 ratio (9:1 in favor of mirrorless.) The DSLR has a decade plus long reign of prestige, and the SLR design in general has decades of prestige. Mirrorless won't that easily topple the respect the best camera design the world has yet seen.

Granted, things like Sony's A7r are very intriguing, and have even peaked my interest. We need to see how it sells, especially relative to DSLRs and perhaps the 5D III specifically, before we can claim that not only will it spell the literal demise of the DSLR, but a complete reversal of sales trends.

I suspect the DSLR's popularity will indeed fade, eventually. It will probably come sooner than I want, but I suspect it will take longer than one more generation before it completely disappears. Mirrorless is currently a powerful fad with a growing trend, but it has yet to really, truly, solidly PROVE itself in the extremely BROAD range of photographic endeavors the DSLR currently serves.

Famateur

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2013, 11:01:04 PM »
So I was looking on B&H for a Fuji equivalent of the 1DX. My search was unsuccessful...  ::)

I find it curious how worked-up people get about the future of Canon and its survival as a company based on a consumer product in a market that (currently) is very small -- all manufacturers combined.

It also seems that some have assumed that every new camera model released must be of significant advancement so as to justify everyone upgrading from the previous model, and that if it doesn't meet this requirement, the company must be asleep at the wheel or on the verge of collapse. Do we hear the same predictions of doom every time Disney releases a movie like Beverly Hills Chihuahua 3? Will Disney crash and burn because every movie isn't at the level of The Incredibles or can't compete with the latest Oscar candidate for Best Picture?

How easily we forget that each of us, individually, doesn't represent the entire market. If Canon makes product decisions that don't meet my needs (or wants), it's more likely that market conditions don't warrant it than that the company is inept in recognizing and then meeting the market's needs. The M2 is simply a refresh of a consumer product to keep it "current". It's intended as a first-time mirrorless purchase, not an upgrade from the first M. Apparently, Canon management concluded that it was not worthwhile to release this refresh in the North American market. I assume that is based on market and cost analysis and not ineptitude.

When I see the end zones of NFL football games lined with mirrorless Sony, Nikon and Fuji cameras in favor of the current crop (bad pun, sorry) of professional gear, maybe there will be cause for alarm. If it ever gets to that, though, I'm confident it still will be mostly filled with Canon gear.

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« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:04:48 PM by Famateur »

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2013, 11:01:04 PM »

cellomaster27

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2013, 11:27:25 PM »
Nice buy CR Admin~   8)

I have to say though, that it isn't much of a surprise that the M2 doesn't have DPAF.  It makes sense for the 7DmII and maybe a future rebel to have that tech.  I think the rebel line will see an increase in MP while the newer 5Dx, cine, and future xxD's will have the DPAF.  It is great tech that they won't include in a model that is meant for a consumer line.  My guess is in the 4th gen of eos-m that it'll have DPAF...when the tech is rather common in the canon digital camera lineup.  In a marketing world, hey, it works.  I commend Canon.   ;D
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mjardeen

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2013, 11:28:43 PM »
I think the SONY a7/r cameras are a turning point for mirror-less. What it needed was a really serious camera. SONY has to deliver on lenses. I think this is what will move Canon and Nikon. Time will tell.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2013, 11:51:10 PM »
“no announcement of the EOS M2 by Canon USA planned.”
So it looks like the EOS M2 is going to be an Asia only product for the foreseeable future.
This has to be a good thing! For photographers like myself who were somewhat underwhelmed by the M2 specs, this leaves the door open for a higher spec M with the 70D (or better) sensor and EVF as well as the other evolutionary changes seen on the Asia-only M2. Though I doubt it's going to be ready for a 2013 Santa drop...

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2013, 12:19:18 AM »
I have the eos-m and I did not realize when I got it that it would overwhelm my older computer and that I would miss the EVF of my canon rebel. 

The videos you shoot are almost worthless because they do not play back without serious stutter on my 2007 iMac and they take forever to upload to youtube.  Never understood how I was supposed to process the videos so I could watch them.  Even with the updated AF fix the AF is still really slow.

As a camera designed to get us to reach for the camera instead of the iPhone, the product is doomed because it does not provide enough support or instructions on what to do with the video and I need too see more native lenses before I would consider upgrading to another dos-m.  I will save my money and buy a real camera with a real viewfinder. 

Hillsilly

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2013, 12:32:56 AM »
It also seems that some have assumed that every new camera model released must be of significant advancement so as to justify everyone upgrading from the previous model, and that if it doesn't meet this requirement, the company must be asleep at the wheel or on the verge of collapse....

People just get upset at missed opportunities.  It has already been mentioned above that about 1/10th of serious camera buyers are into mirrorless cameras.  It has also been mentioned that mirrorless buyers are happy to spend more on a mirrorless camera than would seem rational.  You could then assume that an identifiable/sizeable portion of Canon camera buyers want a well built, feature packed mirrorless camera and are willing to pay for it.  And given that Canon has developed a lot of the tech to make a great mirrorless camera, I can sympathise with those who think the M2 is a let down.  Canon can do so much better.

This M2 announcement causes another problem for Canon.  It sends a clear message to many that Canon isn't serious about mirrorless and won't be for some time (if ever).  (Of course the M1 also sent that message loud and clear - are there still only 2 lenses for it, one of which you can't even buy in half of the world?)  Therefore, all of those who are mirrorless curious are just going to pick up a Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica etc.  If they invest into those systems and like it (as I did with Fuji), they're not going to quickly switch back.  All of sudden, Canon has lost a large swathe of early adopters who would otherwise be proudly espousing the benefits of Canon mirrorless cameras to their non-Canon friends.  By the way, have I mentioned how awesome the Fuji 14mm is?  And have you checked out the flash synch times on the X-100S - what kind of creative opportunities would that provide you?  (Anyway, you get the idea - deep down, I'm still a Canon fanboi.)
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BozillaNZ

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2013, 01:01:37 AM »
It also seems that some have assumed that every new camera model released must be of significant advancement so as to justify everyone upgrading from the previous model, and that if it doesn't meet this requirement, the company must be asleep at the wheel or on the verge of collapse....

People just get upset at missed opportunities.  It has already been mentioned above that about 1/10th of serious camera buyers are into mirrorless cameras.  It has also been mentioned that mirrorless buyers are happy to spend more on a mirrorless camera than would seem rational.  You could then assume that an identifiable/sizeable portion of Canon camera buyers want a well built, feature packed mirrorless camera and are willing to pay for it.  And given that Canon has developed a lot of the tech to make a great mirrorless camera, I can sympathise with those who think the M2 is a let down.  Canon can do so much better.

This M2 announcement causes another problem for Canon.  It sends a clear message to many that Canon isn't serious about mirrorless and won't be for some time (if ever).  (Of course the M1 also sent that message loud and clear - are there still only 2 lenses for it, one of which you can't even buy in half of the world?)  Therefore, all of those who are mirrorless curious are just going to pick up a Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica etc.  If they invest into those systems and like it (as I did with Fuji), they're not going to quickly switch back.  All of sudden, Canon has lost a large swathe of early adopters who would otherwise be proudly espousing the benefits of Canon mirrorless cameras to their non-Canon friends.  By the way, have I mentioned how awesome the Fuji 14mm is?  And have you checked out the flash synch times on the X-100S - what kind of creative opportunities would that provide you?  (Anyway, you get the idea - deep down, I'm still a Canon fanboi.)

Yes, I found the fact that people come up with all kinds of excuses to justify that what Canon have done is good, which is strange! What aspect of M2 is done good compared to the M1? The fact that it is (ever so slightly) smaller? And comes with WiFi? To me that is not good enough!

The reason that I'm bashing it is because I think it could have done so much better, given what it already has in it's sleeve now.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:03:27 AM by BozillaNZ »
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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2013, 01:01:37 AM »

eml58

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2013, 01:25:25 AM »
Thanks for the input regarding the Sony...I cannot buy one...but I am eagerly watching the development of all-things mirrorless.

Me too, I think Sony are on the right track with the a7/a7r, they've let themselves down with a mediocre approach to the Marketing side, basically you can choose from a Sony zoom, or the Zeiss 35 at launch, the Zeiss is excellent though.

I went to process some RAW files from the a7r today and was left a little Gob Smacked that not even Sony (as far as I could find out) have a full on software set to process files from the a7r, all I could find was some hopeless system called "PlayMemoriesHome", which allows you to view and do some minor cropping but no conversion from the RAW format, hopeless. Fortunately I found Adobe has a release 5.3 that does allow the files to be worked in PS/LR5.

I really do hope Canon at some point decide to get serious re mirror less, but I can't see any real signs at present, in the meantime I'll play with the a7r for a while and see what the possibilities are, and pick up the 1Dx or the 5DMK III when i need to get serious.
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zlatko

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2013, 02:49:01 AM »
It also seems that some have assumed that every new camera model released must be of significant advancement so as to justify everyone upgrading from the previous model, and that if it doesn't meet this requirement, the company must be asleep at the wheel or on the verge of collapse....

People just get upset at missed opportunities.  It has already been mentioned above that about 1/10th of serious camera buyers are into mirrorless cameras.  It has also been mentioned that mirrorless buyers are happy to spend more on a mirrorless camera than would seem rational.  You could then assume that an identifiable/sizeable portion of Canon camera buyers want a well built, feature packed mirrorless camera and are willing to pay for it.  And given that Canon has developed a lot of the tech to make a great mirrorless camera, I can sympathise with those who think the M2 is a let down.  Canon can do so much better.

This M2 announcement causes another problem for Canon.  It sends a clear message to many that Canon isn't serious about mirrorless and won't be for some time (if ever).  (Of course the M1 also sent that message loud and clear - are there still only 2 lenses for it, one of which you can't even buy in half of the world?)  Therefore, all of those who are mirrorless curious are just going to pick up a Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica etc.  If they invest into those systems and like it (as I did with Fuji), they're not going to quickly switch back.  All of sudden, Canon has lost a large swathe of early adopters who would otherwise be proudly espousing the benefits of Canon mirrorless cameras to their non-Canon friends.  By the way, have I mentioned how awesome the Fuji 14mm is?  And have you checked out the flash synch times on the X-100S - what kind of creative opportunities would that provide you?  (Anyway, you get the idea - deep down, I'm still a Canon fanboi.)

Yes, I found the fact that people come up with all kinds of excuses to justify that what Canon have done is good, which is strange! What aspect of M2 is done good compared to the M1? The fact that it is (ever so slightly) smaller? And comes with WiFi? To me that is not good enough!

The reason that I'm bashing it is because I think it could have done so much better, given what it already has in it's sleeve now.

It could have been so much better for you.  You wanted it to have an EVF, tilt-screen, built-in flash, added controls, new sensor, etc.  And then of course it would be a very different camera, with a different size & shape and a different price point.  It would have been better for you, but it would have been worse for others.  Indeed, add all of those features and some likely buyers will instantly lose interest — because they don't want any of them.  Some people will like the M2 just the way it is, especially with the improved AF, as appears in this video - http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2013-12/pr-eos-m2.html

Who knows, something like your version of the M2 might be on Canon's calendar.  But even a company as large as Canon can't and won't try to fill every market niche.  If M43 already offers the camera you want, why blame Canon for not building the camera that someone else already builds?  We don't blame Fuji for not offering anything like the 1DX or 5D3, or like some of Canon's fantastic lenses.

We can all bash a camera for not being built to our personal specifications, and miss the point that it meets other people's needs very well.  I could bash the 5D3 for not being lighter & smaller, but then it would have to be a different camera, and such a camera might be worse for people who like it just the way it is.  I could bash the SL1 for not having a big 2,000 shot battery, but then it would have to be a different camera, and worse for some people who like it small the way it is.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2013, 02:49:01 AM »