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Author Topic: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D  (Read 35394 times)

Dylan777

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2013, 12:27:57 AM »
Just playing devils advocate here for a second, and I am not interested in a bitch slap contest.

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with the images Dylan777 posted here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,18417.msg347711.html#msg347711 as an example of AF performance they are not particularly convincing images. , also there is no depth of field at play here, the dancers are so far away and close enough together to be well covered even when shot at f2.8, certainly going by the sizes as displayed here. Indeed as displayed both the footlights and the curtains seem acceptably sharp.


The photos were resized to post here.

I agree with you about distance and DOF. My point was - since 5D III has 41 AF points(dual cross & cross), why not frame and shoot with one of outer points especially I'm interested keeping the last girl on the right in focus.

In regard of - "The dancers are in white against dark green curtains, this provides very good contrast, an easy target for AF" - you think 6D outer AF point(s) be able deliver same sharpness?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 12:32:20 AM by Dylan777 »
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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2013, 12:27:57 AM »

Janbo Makimbo

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #196 on: December 17, 2013, 12:31:27 AM »
I am assuming you are happy with these ?


Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos


I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!


Really? Mind posting a few images?


Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!


XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D
I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.
I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685

Dylan777

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #197 on: December 17, 2013, 12:48:00 AM »
I am assuming you are happy with these ?


Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos


I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!


Really? Mind posting a few images?


Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!


XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D
I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.
I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685


You have any photos taken with 6D with subject moving around, exp. kids?
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privatebydesign

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #198 on: December 17, 2013, 12:59:43 AM »
In regard of - "The dancers are in white against dark green curtains, this provides very good contrast, an easy target for AF" - you think 6D outer AF point(s) be able deliver same sharpness?

I'd expect my EOS-M with adapter and EF lens to lock focus on that kind of contrast. Seriously. This isn't a pissing contest, it is just a measure of contrast, there is a huge amount of contrast between the dancers in white with stage lights on them and the dark green light absorbing curtains, at iso 8,000 you have over 8 stops of dynamic range, some of the white dresses are blown and some of the footlights and orchestra pit black, that is a contrast ratio in the order of 300:1, an easy target for AF. By contrast (no pun intended) the 6D AF center point is rated down to -3EV, a contrast ratio in the low double digits.

Again, this is not a judgement of the images, purely a deconstruction of the task the AF was asked to perform. I am not suggesting for one second that the off center AF points in the 6D can come close to the performance of the 5D MkIII off center AF points, just that the two posted images are not good examples of where the differences would show up.
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Janbo Makimbo

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #199 on: December 17, 2013, 01:14:54 AM »
I am assuming you are happy with these ?


Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos


I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!


Really? Mind posting a few images?


Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!


XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D
I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.
I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685


You have any photos taken with 6D with subject moving around, exp. kids?
err no, I never said I did ?

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #200 on: December 17, 2013, 09:28:23 AM »
I am assuming you are happy with these ?


Was that a statement or question? Yes, I'm happy with those photos


I was wondering why you posted them in this thread..... shots like these could have been taken with a 6D you decided to use an outer focus point which is fine but you could have quite easily used the centre point either with BBF or not!!


Really? Mind posting a few images?


Okay I was trying to be civil, I was wondering what point you were trying to make posting mediocre images in this thread!! Was it to illustrate how superior you think the 5D3 is because if it was i think you failed miserably!!


XD that's cute, with your little tantrum. I'd re-read what you just wrote because its ludicrously funny.

Calling someone else's images mediocre while raising yourself with no images makes you look very bad and of sub-par IQ. ;D
I have posted superior images to those in the appropriate thread and they were taken with a 6D, I did not post them and try to make a silly point on someone elses post!! But hey if you are happy with them then good luck!!

You haven't posted any photos on CR. Your attachments bin is empty. XD quite hilarious. perhaps we can see your photos because after all these photos are "mediocre" to your high standards.

Please link us to the threads because perhaps you posted from flickr.
I went into the 6D Sample images post and type in my name, here is a link.... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11600.msg301685/topicseen.html#msg301685


I saw nothing that couldn't be done on a Canon d30, why do you need the 6Ds superior AF system?

CarlTN

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #201 on: December 18, 2013, 03:44:13 AM »
Part of producing great IQ is auto focus accuracy.  The 5D3's AF accuracy is overall, superior.  The 6D is also worse in flash sync speed.  The 6D's IQ is not better than the 5D3's by any measureable amount.  So... 

I cannot think of any reason that if you already had a 5D3, you'd gain anything by selling that, and getting a 6D.  Starting with the 6D is a great decision, because it's a great camera.  But even for things that are great, there is always something better.  Going from a 5D3 to a 6D would be a net loss.

At high ISO, the 6D does have a measurable improvement over the 5D III. It isn't huge, we aren't talking about anything along the lines of the D800's ISO 100 gap, by any means. But in the cases where clean high ISO performance is useful, such as astrophotography, I would pick the 6D over the 5D III any day (assuming, that is, that I picked a DSLR...for truly serious astrophotography, I'd probably get something like this: QHY11 11mp FF Monochrome CCD :P  ;D)

Thank you for at least clarifying this.  However, you seem to disagree with it when I say it...

I only disagree with you when you say the 6D is better overall than the 5D III...which I believe you have said a few times, in as many words. ;P

No, don't think I have.  I said I think it's an overall better value than the 5D3.  I certainly like it better than the 5D3, so to me it's the better camera.  That's my opinion.  Someone else who makes more money from their photography than me, and who specifically needs the 5D3, might think of the 5D3 as a good value also.  If all I did was brightly lit sports photography with a 300 f/2.8 ii, then certainly I would have to buy a 5D3, or 1DX.  If I was a wedding photog, I would only use the 6D as my second body.  But I would also kill myself pretty quick, because death would be better than that!!

I may rent that lens next, I don't know...I kind of want to try the 400 f/4 DO.  I like the idea of handholding such a large lens that only weighs 4.3 pounds.  Of course I'd probably still use it on my monopod more than hand-holding...and its IS is only 2 stops.  I had wanted to try the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8...either way probably won't rent anything until the early spring.

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #201 on: December 18, 2013, 03:44:13 AM »

CarlTN

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #202 on: December 18, 2013, 03:50:07 AM »
Yesterday night I was able to take some pictures at a bar with almost no light. I had my 5D3 with 35mm 1.4L.
I was using an off center point and I was amazed that it was able to focus 80% of the time when I couldn't almost see anything with my eyes! I understand that I wasn't close to EV0 but still I was impressed (ISO was either  25K or 50K , f was set to 1.4, speed 80 to 100 and compensation was at +2/3 stop) OK I wasn't going for a masterpiece but for snapshots with lots of noise. The camera/lens combination delivered. I do not know if 6D could do that (off-center focus under these conditions)...

Frankly I don't believe off center focus was vital in your scenario.  Post some of the pictures, to help prove otherwise.  Focusing at a distance of 5 feet or more, is not going to make a big difference if you focus then recompose.  If the focal plane is less than 5 feet (with the 35mm lens), then I could see requiring the off center focus points.  But focusing accurately 80% of the time, is not as good as focusing accurately in low light 100% of the time with the 6D's center point, then recomposing.  And don't quote the above out of context without this part: For that particular lens, it's likely the 5D3 is a better overall match, especially if you must use AF points outside the center.  But as you said, in low light, the 5D3 has some trouble...missing focus for 20% of the shots.
80% = About 8 pictures out of 10 since I could not even see where I was focusing with my eyes! In these 2 attempts the camera had refused to focus, it didn't focus inaccurately. Simple as that. And yes I was that close. Plus there was movement in the dark.

Gotcha...but if you need to focus on things you can't even see through the viewfinder, the 6D's center point is always going to achieve focus...usually quite accurate as long as you use multiple half press.  If you're just swinging the camera around and running here or there or something, in the dark...and don't take the extra time to make sure the focus is right...then you should be glad you got any usable shots at all.
I was pointing the outer focusing at the face towards the eye and even if I missed it by little it was much better than ruining the composition by trying to use the center focus point at the eye or keeping the composition and using the center point to focus somewhere else.

You have such a strong opinion for a situation you weren't in front - and true I hadn't described 100% because I never thought I had to - that apart from a Canon super expert you seem to behave like a psychic or something  ::)

My mind can take me places, just tried to envision the situation.  Not a psychic.  I'll take you at your word...but unless you tried the 6D in the exact same situation, and focus-recomposed, how can you be so sure the focus would not have been as close as it otherwise was?  Were the shots all at wide open, f/1.4?  You realize there is a bit of focus shift with such lenses, if the aperture is not wide open...because those precious focus points are focusing while wide open.  Were you able to get a fast shutter speed?  Were the people moving or did they stand still and pose as you shot them?

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #203 on: December 18, 2013, 04:34:42 AM »
The 6D works fine with Focus-Recompose if you are shooting stopped down and you have sufficient DOF. When you want to use fast primes wide open, it turns into a serious enough problem.

Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2. The DOF is 0.54 inches. The same shot taken at f/4 will give you a DOF of 1.81 inches.

So basically you will get by with the slower lenses on a 6D using focus-recompose, shooting wide open won't be so forgiving and the shots will be rendered OOF.

BTW, phase detect AF happens with the lenses wide open so focus shift when shooting wide open is a non-issue really.
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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #204 on: December 18, 2013, 04:46:12 AM »
Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #205 on: December 18, 2013, 05:18:21 AM »
Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

 It's a challenge on the 6D though and I'd like to use a tripod and live view for shooting with this lens.

I'll do some test shots with both bodies and post the results.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 05:20:17 AM by J.R. »
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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #206 on: December 19, 2013, 01:50:42 AM »
Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

Agree.

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #207 on: December 19, 2013, 01:58:47 AM »
Consider this, you are shooting a subject at a distance of 5 feet with an 85mm lens at f/1.2.

To be fair, the f1.2 dof is a challenge for any existing Canon af system because even the 5d3/1dx af points aren't spread far enough so there is no need to recompose, and this thin dof beats any phase af precision... learning to manually focus on the lens or moving the camera is a good idea, at least with macro shots I know it beats trying to phase af.

I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

 It's a challenge on the 6D though and I'd like to use a tripod and live view for shooting with this lens.

I'll do some test shots with both bodies and post the results.

I definitely would not want to depend on the 6D, especially its outer points, to make the 85L autofocus.  It's an unusual lens.  I've only tried that lens on my 50D three years ago, and it never autofocused accurately on it, no matter how I adjusted the AFMA, and that was with just center point.  I always had to use live view and manual focus on that lens on the 50D.  I tried it on my cousin/neighbor's 5D2 at the time, but just focused manually via the viewfinder...and it focused perfectly on it.  On my 50D it wouldn't even focus accurately, manually through the viewfinder.  My theory on this is that there is a phenomenon I have read about, that occurs because the viewfinder, mirror, and pentaprism are smaller, and the spacing of it all is different than in a full frame camera...I forget what it's called right now. 

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #207 on: December 19, 2013, 01:58:47 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #208 on: December 19, 2013, 02:00:45 AM »
I've owned the 85L for a grand 3 days now and so far, I've found it to work pretty accurately on the 5D3. I'd guess the focusing would be even better on the 1DX.

Interesting - do you use af point expansion or single point af? Just looking at the specs, a 5d3/1dx center point shouldn't be better at af'ing than the 5d2/6d if the f2.8 line picks up, but on the other hand everybody states that f1.2 on 5d2/6d is horrible to use and that's why I've given up on the idea to buy such a fast lens... but mostly because focus & recompose from the center point is so tricky.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 02:22:28 AM by Marsu42 »

CarlTN

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #209 on: December 19, 2013, 02:29:48 AM »
Marsu42: "You'd agree to just about anything that indicates that you can just get a 6d instead of a 5d3, don't you :-p ?"

Haha, not necessarily.  I really am saying now I would not want to use the 85L on the 6D at all, other than perhaps manual focus.  That lens in particular, is just slow to AF and a pain.  I wish I would have had rented it when my cousin bought his 1DX, so I could see just what it could do.  I sincerely doubt the 1DX can AF all that spectacularly with that lens.  The 85L is kind of like trying to marry Lady Gaga, if you're a straight male...she just might be more trouble than she's worth, and I have the wrong plumbing for those times when she craves the other...um...faucet!!

Maybe by the time I can afford a 2DX or 5D5, Canon will introduce a new 85L.  But by that time the price for both might be $30k...

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Re: The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D
« Reply #209 on: December 19, 2013, 02:29:48 AM »