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Author Topic: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops  (Read 10913 times)

sagittariansrock

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Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« on: December 03, 2013, 07:10:33 PM »
Hi all
I have a favor to ask anyone who owns an Arca Swiss Z with the double decker clamp and a Wimberley lens plate. Wimberley states that their safety stop feature doesn't work for these clamps because the groove is too deep. However, mine has two stops in the clamp itself, likely because of the compact system. Now, will these pins be high enough to come in contact with the lens plate safety stop and allow the safety feature to be functional?
If not, is there any other lens plate that allows the safety feature to work with the Z?
Thanks!
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Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« on: December 03, 2013, 07:10:33 PM »

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 08:56:05 PM »
I don't know if I'm totally following what you're saying, but the safety pins on the Wimberley plates are supposed to work on the grooves of the Wimberley clamp itself (I suppose that a clamp with similar grooves would work just as well). The Arca-Swiss plates work in the opposite direction, by having the pins in the clamp and the grooves in the plates (and I think that's just for their new plate system).

In my case, I ended up going in the opposite direction of what I think you're suggesting, which was replacing the clamp on my Monoball with the Wimberley C-12 clamp. That was an easy job and it had the added benefit of increasing compatibility with the broad range of Arca-geometry plates that have safety pins on them (if you really care about that feature).
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 12:13:20 AM »
The double Decker clamp confuses me too .  Unless you plan to use the arca only new geometries i think I would put a rrs clamp on the z

sagittariansrock

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 02:48:08 AM »
I don't know if I'm totally following what you're saying, but the safety pins on the Wimberley plates are supposed to work on the grooves of the Wimberley clamp itself (I suppose that a clamp with similar grooves would work just as well). The Arca-Swiss plates work in the opposite direction, by having the pins in the clamp and the grooves in the plates (and I think that's just for their new plate system).

In my case, I ended up going in the opposite direction of what I think you're suggesting, which was replacing the clamp on my Monoball with the Wimberley C-12 clamp. That was an easy job and it had the added benefit of increasing compatibility with the broad range of Arca-geometry plates that have safety pins on them (if you really care about that feature).

I'm not sure mine is user-removable. Did you have to send yours in to their US service center or can it undone using a torx wrench. I remember Arca Swiss announcing they will (semi)permanently lock down the clamp.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 6D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 85mm f/1.2L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 09:25:39 AM »
I'm not sure mine is user-removable. Did you have to send yours in to their US service center or can it undone using a torx wrench. I remember Arca Swiss announcing they will (semi)permanently lock down the clamp.

Nope, I remove the clamp myself. I remembered it being a bit tight, but I just applied torque with my own hands. You can always contact them and ask. I don't remember if Arca Swiss applied some blue loctite or similar to the screw (which still can be removed by hand), but I did do that when I put in the new clamp.

I forgot to say, if you just bought the Monoball, you could just return it and consider options such as the RRS BH-55, which gives you similar quality and there's no need to mess around with the clamp.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 09:40:01 AM by pensive tomato »
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 09:54:26 AM »


I've read that AS started using locktite red or something stronger , making it difficult to remove the double Decker clamp.   I'm not sure I see the value in that clamp either, and from my reading folks tend to prefer the rrs or Wimberley clamps on the z.  Good luck I hope u get yours off.  My plans at this point when I upgrade my ball head is to purchase the z1 with the 3/8 screw and platform and mount up an rrs clamp .  I'd just go for the rrs ball head but it's base is too big for my tripod.     Even the dp version of the z1 ,  while compelling,  is not as attractive to me as the rrs panning clamp which can mount part time to a std clamp.  So bottom line for me is put a std clamp on the z unless you will benefit from arca swiss 's new geometry products.

sagittariansrock

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 10:51:58 AM »
I totally agree. The new double dovetail raises the CG and doesn't serve any useful purpose as far as I am concerned. However, I prefer the Z far more than the BH-55 or BH-40. So I guess I'll have to contend with switching. Hopefully they used blue :)
EOS 5DIII, EOS 6D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 85mm f/1.2L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 10:51:58 AM »

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 11:13:09 AM »
Best of luck with the conversion! Let us know how it goes. You should have good options for the clamp once you get the AS one out. I used the Wimberley as I could readily get it at a local store instead of ordering from RRS (the Z1 is not my primary head, so I wasn't as picky).

RRS does provide options to your heart's content. dlleno, RRS' panning clamp does look attractive. I just keep telling myself that I'm doing fine with my geared head and leveling base, although a compact top panning solution has been tempting me for over a year  ;D
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 11:23:58 AM »
Best of luck with the conversion! Let us know how it goes. You should have good options for the clamp once you get the AS one out. I used the Wimberley as I could readily get it at a local store instead of ordering from RRS (the Z1 is not my primary head, so I wasn't as picky).

RRS does provide options to your heart's content. dlleno, RRS' panning clamp does look attractive. I just keep telling myself that I'm doing fine with my geared head and leveling base, although a compact top panning solution has been tempting me for over a year  ;D

yea +1 on both counts.  RRS has TOO MANY nice things in their catalog, lol.  BTW I like the Z1 over the Markins mostly due to the size of the panning lock knob.  The Z1 is s more compact design.  So the best of both worlds to me is to put an RRS clamp on a z1.  If you can't get the AS clamp off, you might be able to send it in to an AS service center.  Some have tried heating with a soldering iron, but imho once you start playing with heat you're better off leaving that job to those who know the product.  fingers crossed the OP is succesful!

I'm still trying to find out why AS produced a whole line of new geometry stuff, and why one would want to live with the double-decker clamp unless there was a critical need to use the proprietary new geometry.

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 11:45:22 AM »
I'm still trying to find out why AS produced a whole line of new geometry stuff, and why one would want to live with the double-decker clamp unless there was a critical need to use the proprietary new geometry.

That's beyond me as well. I read some place that the new system was supposed to provide AS with new possibilities, perhaps related to the rails for their view cameras?? Now I do find it funny that the company that produced a geometry standard emulated by others is moving in other directions.
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 11:53:26 AM »
could be.  maybe they are anticipating the smaller cameras and the associated need for smaller accessories.  Or maybe they trying to create a new standard and/or an exclusive product line.  not for me though.  my gripped 5D3 is quite happy with the existing standard and I'm not very keen on trying to insert a standard plate into the top portion of that double decker AS clamp. 

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 01:48:24 PM »
I just had an oh duh moment.  Wimberley Sells the z1 with their clamp installed.   It's their bh-300.  I'd bet they would retrofit for a rework fee...

Nice

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »
OP, that might indeed be the best bet!
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »

dlleno

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 04:40:59 PM »
Yes that is the best option in my opinion.  Call Wimberly and just see what they say.  they buy Z1s direct from AS, remove the platform/stud thingie and put their own clamp on there.  its the best z1 solution ever, imho -- no fussing around with the double decker clamp and if you stay with Wimberly or RRS plates,  your safety stops will work. 

it may be a long shot to see if they would retrofit, but its worth a try.  BTW, after talking with Wimberly I'm convinced more than ever that it is NOT the best solution to simply  screw an RRS or Wimberly clamp  directly onto the AS 3/8" stud/platform supplied on the Z1.  What wimberly does it take that OFF and put their clamp directly onto the stud, which takes advantage of the anti-twist nubs present in the AS stud.

Kudos to Wimberley keep up the good work!

pensive tomato

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 07:09:18 PM »
What wimberly does it take that OFF and put their clamp directly onto the stud, which takes advantage of the anti-twist nubs present in the AS stud.

Kudos to Wimberley keep up the good work!

That's exactly what I did when I fitted mine with their clamp. Wimberley includes instructions online to that effect too. Of course, that was an easy do-it-yourself job before AS decided -as reported- to use some strong glue.
6D | M | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/4L IS | 40 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.4 | 85 f/1.8 | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 22 f/2 STM | 600EX-RT (x2) | MT-24 EX | 270 EX II | ST-E3-RT

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Re: Arca Swiss Z and Safety stops
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 07:09:18 PM »