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Author Topic: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?  (Read 8890 times)

jdramirez

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2013, 08:00:34 PM »
So you ordered it thinking that they had made a mistake, and might follow it up with another. That you were quite happy to profit from.

When they did send you the lens you were expecting to get and you got what you were expecting, if not what you were hoping for, you sent them a less than straight forward e-mail asking for an explanation. When you were pretty sure you knew exactly what had happened, and it was what you were expecting anyway.

Then to top it all they didn't promptly reply to your smart e-mail!

So to reply to your thread subject line.

"Should I be annoyed with Adorama"   Well I would say only if you really think they have fallen from a high standard you might reasonable expect.

"or is it my own dumb fault?"  Well I would say only if you think its unreasonable to try to take advantage of what you think is a mistake.      But hey you are proving a point. I'll let you figure out what point it is you are proving, as I see it.  ;D

Price and listing mistakes happen... Walmart recently had pricing issues and had to cancel thousands of orders.  They made recompense by cancelling the orders and providing customers with a $10 credit to use online or in store. 

In September United had a glitch and were selling airfares for a fraction of their cost.  They elected to honor the sale of the tickets. 
http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/united-airlines-accidentally-offers-airfares-nothing-8C11139753

I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit and making a purchase with the understanding that it may or may not come to fruition.

Around 5.5 years ago (before I got the Canon XS) there was a price mistake by Sears on some crappy entry level Nikon telephoto lens.  Rather than selling it for $160, they sold it for $16.  I managed to get two and then I sold them which allowed me to get the later that year.  Are you seriously suggesting that it is a moral obligation for someone who see's what is likely a pricing mistake for them to notify the company of the same? 

I don't consider my relationship with retailers as adversarial... but rather mutualistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology).  There will be times where I will wind up paying more than wholesale for certain items (SD Cards, flash diffusers, bags, etc.) and there are times where I would expect to pay less than wholesale (used/open box items, discontinued gear, or gear that is overstocked with inventory). 

I understand and accept that this wasn't fraud on the part of Adorama (which is a fine company and I have dealt with for a few years and I haven't had any issue with until this matter), but having a photo multiple times on a listing may be a mistake... but it is a knowing mistake which was made in repetition. 

Once would be an accident, twice would be a confirmation of the negligence, and a 3rd time would be fraud.  And there wasn't a 3rd time, so I'm not accusing Adorama of that. 

I suppose my annoyance is that someone would actually confuse the 50mm f/1.2L with a 50mm f/1.8 mkii.  That... and it wasn't really that good of a deal... so I have gear at a price that I don't really want.  So I have to figure that out. 

Let me know if I neglected to address a point... and I'll be happy to respond. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2013, 08:00:34 PM »

RunAndGun

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 01:03:38 AM »
So you ordered it thinking that they had made a mistake, and might follow it up with another. That you were quite happy to profit from.

When they did send you the lens you were expecting to get and you got what you were expecting, if not what you were hoping for, you sent them a less than straight forward e-mail asking for an explanation. When you were pretty sure you knew exactly what had happened, and it was what you were expecting anyway.

Then to top it all they didn't promptly reply to your smart e-mail!

So to reply to your thread subject line.

"Should I be annoyed with Adorama"   Well I would say only if you really think they have fallen from a high standard you might reasonable expect.

"or is it my own dumb fault?"  Well I would say only if you think its unreasonable to try to take advantage of what you think is a mistake.      But hey you are proving a point. I'll let you figure out what point it is you are proving, as I see it.  ;D

Price and listing mistakes happen... Walmart recently had pricing issues and had to cancel thousands of orders.  They made recompense by cancelling the orders and providing customers with a $10 credit to use online or in store. 

In September United had a glitch and were selling airfares for a fraction of their cost.  They elected to honor the sale of the tickets. 
http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/united-airlines-accidentally-offers-airfares-nothing-8C11139753

I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit and making a purchase with the understanding that it may or may not come to fruition.

Around 5.5 years ago (before I got the Canon XS) there was a price mistake by Sears on some crappy entry level Nikon telephoto lens.  Rather than selling it for $160, they sold it for $16.  I managed to get two and then I sold them which allowed me to get the later that year.  Are you seriously suggesting that it is a moral obligation for someone who see's what is likely a pricing mistake for them to notify the company of the same? 

I don't consider my relationship with retailers as adversarial... but rather mutualistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology).  There will be times where I will wind up paying more than wholesale for certain items (SD Cards, flash diffusers, bags, etc.) and there are times where I would expect to pay less than wholesale (used/open box items, discontinued gear, or gear that is overstocked with inventory). 

I understand and accept that this wasn't fraud on the part of Adorama (which is a fine company and I have dealt with for a few years and I haven't had any issue with until this matter), but having a photo multiple times on a listing may be a mistake... but it is a knowing mistake which was made in repetition. 

Once would be an accident, twice would be a confirmation of the negligence, and a 3rd time would be fraud.  And there wasn't a 3rd time, so I'm not accusing Adorama of that. 

I suppose my annoyance is that someone would actually confuse the 50mm f/1.2L with a 50mm f/1.8 mkii.  That... and it wasn't really that good of a deal... so I have gear at a price that I don't really want.  So I have to figure that out. 

Let me know if I neglected to address a point... and I'll be happy to respond.

Not to pile on more… But…  It clearly stated in print which lens was part of the package and you already admitted you knew it was probably incorrect(the picture of the lens) and were just hoping to capitalize on someones mistake.  So now you have equipment that you really didn't want to begin with and the purchase price of said equipment wasn't a good deal anyway.  You gambled and lost.  That happens thousands (or millions) of times a day in Las Vegas and the house doesn't apologize or give the person their money back.

Incorrect pictures are posted/used all the time.  It happens.  As a matter of fact I just experienced it tonight looking for a pair of shoes on-line.  Amazon has the wrong shoes pictured with the listing(similar style, but basically a model down).  Reviews accompanying the shoes noted this, but says that you receive the correct shoes that are listed IN PRINT.  In this case they have the less expensive shoes pictured as the more expensive model, but the listing for the less expensive shoes has the more expensive shoes pictured.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2013, 01:07:17 AM »
Gladly, I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that the written word would trump the pic, so you got what you paid for.  Nice try however.  On the other hand, customer service is key, and a letter back with an apology would not have taken any effort.  I wouldn't say your "own dumb fault".  Do you like the gear?

Happy Holidays.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2013, 02:02:15 AM »
From a moral stand-point my own feeling is you acted poorly.





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Helen Oster

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2013, 02:30:41 AM »
I'm in communication with the OP and am in the process of assisting him.

The picture was changed as soon as we became of the error, but maybe it's worth clarifying how an error like this can occur so easilly....

The Adorama website isn't like eBay, ie, we don't take photographs of the gear and then upload them. Manufacturers require consistency in the way their products are displayed by retailers. Therefore they send us the text we have to use, and the pictures come in as a series of codes.
The data entry clerks are not photographers and may not not know one end of a tripod from  another...  they are there purely to upload the info.
With over 180,000 different product lines on our website,  an inadvertent juxtoposition of one number or letter for another, and quite a different beast is on the product page!

That is why  we display the following on our website (and acceptance of these terms and conditions are presumed to be understood by the customer before he or she places an order)

http://www.adorama.com/help/termsAndConditions

Purchaser, by placing an order, makes an offer to purchase pursuant to these terms and conditions, which offer, if accepted by Adorama Camera, is accepted within the State of New York, and purchaser consents to the jurisdiction of the courts of the courts of the State of New York for the limited purpose of dispute arising between the parties resulting from this transaction and agrees that the laws of the State of New York shall apply.

By opening or using a product purchased from Adorama, the purchaser agrees to be bound by the term and conditions of sale as set forth below. If you do not agree to the terms and conditions of sale, please ship the product back to Adorama unopened within 5 days of receipt for a full refund (less shipping and handling charges).

Adorama Camera makes no warranty, either expressed or implied, of merchantability or fitness for any particular purpose, and none shall be implied by law.

Final determination of suitability of any item sold for the use contemplated by purchaser is the sole responsibility of the purchaser, and Seller shall have no responsibility in connection with such determination.

Adorama Camera will not be responsible for any consequential or incidental damages resulting from the sale, non-delivery, use or improper function of any equipment purchased from us. The responsibility, if any is imposed, of Adorama in regard to any item purchased shall be limited to the monetary value of the merchandise purchased.

Adorama.com is intended to be a guide only. Some item illustrations are for display purposes only, may not be exact, and are not necessarily included in the purchase price. Adorama is not responsible for typographical or pictorial errors, and specifications may change without notice.

All items offered for sale are subject to availability. Many items on our Web site or catalog site come from various sources. Adorama is, therefore, bound to fluctuating currency exchange rates, making it necessary to occasionally increase prices. In addition, some domestic and overseas products may be discontinued without our prior knowledge. Should this apply to your order, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation.

We make every effort to provide you with an error-free Web site. However, in the event there is a misprint, we reserve the right to correct copy or pricing to reflect the actual current status.


At any other time of the year I hope that the CS Department would have responded more quickly to the OP's email. However, this IS the crazy time for retailers. Taking on additional staff isn't an easy option, either, because our callers often slam us if the poor 'seasonal' girl on the end of the 'phone isn't completely familiar with any particular product or its function!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 02:34:15 AM by Helen Oster »
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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2013, 03:14:49 AM »


... and as a mere foreigner I'd like to add that at first I found it to be a bit creepy for some retailer PR agents to scan the forums and pick up critical threads, but after looking at a couple of them I have to say you U.S. boys should be lucky to have such online shops over there, in Germany if something doesn't work out you're out of options very quickly.


PLEASE don't call me PR!!!

My post was developed in 2007 as a direct response to the increasing desire by customers to use a variety of Social Media platforms to communicate with retailers -  and each other.

I act as an Independent Advocate on behalf of Adorama customers, representing Adorama's presence on social network sites (eg Twitter, Facebook, Google + and Linked In), shopping sites and newsgroups; Photography Blogs and Forums - across the globe

With a diverse background in Law, Journalism and Mental Health, and experience as an Expert Witness in the fields of Workplace Stress and Bullying, I aim to provide a rapid response for customers seeking advice and / or support in relation to their purchases - investigating and resolving complaints and concerns that customers have been unable to address through regular customer service channels.


Any customer with an enquiry, query or complaint regarding an order - or any aspect of service from Adorama, is also most welcome to contact me directly: helen@adorama.com



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Marsu42

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 03:41:51 AM »
PLEASE don't call me PR!!!

Well, that's what you get for writing something nice :-p ... I'm not up to the correct obvious terms obviously as you relate to the public - otherwise you'd just write a PM to the op - but maybe PR is something different entirely and is considered deprecating since it made you post your qualifications ... so sorry for that.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 03:41:51 AM »

Helen Oster

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 05:51:30 AM »


Well, that's what you get for writing something nice :-p ... I'm not up to the correct obvious terms obviously as you relate to the public - otherwise you'd just write a PM to the op - but maybe PR is something different entirely and is considered deprecating since it made you post your qualifications ... so sorry for that.

Sorry, don't mean to be spiky. But PR generally refers to someone who is employed to promote a business, and to encourage the public to support that business.

My job is less PR for Adorama, than it is customer advocacy - and I always post publically for 100% transparency - and so other customers can see that if they also experience issues of any kind, that I'm here to help.

I believe that my professional background is important, because it highlights my understanding that human relationships and expectations -  and failings - are an integral part of any transaction, even those which are related to commerce.
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BoneDoc

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 06:36:26 AM »
Helen,

Your title is aptly named "Customer Service Ambassador" because you do a very good job at it.  We, as a community are fortunate that we have someone like you looking out for us.

I personally have very little sympathy for OP since it's quite obvious that this was an honest mistake anyway, and I wouldn't have expected anything more than a free return of merchandise.  It's great to be looking at deals, but never at the expense of "screwing" someone else over :).

Merry Christmas everyone :).

Josh

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 08:04:51 AM »
Hi folks.
I don't know how it works throughout the world, but in the UK the seller can decline a sale. For instance I was looking for an angle grinder (for my other hobby!). I found one at a large national DIY retail chain.
It was listed on one shelf for about half what it was on another. I took one to the check out fully aware that they might not honour the price, but I wanted one anyway. The till showed the higher price, but I queried it and manager was called. They honoured the price but while I was being served the product was removed from sale, shelf labels changed and then the product returned to sale.
I had no qualms about taking advantage of this large chain as I was spending plenty of money with them over preceding and following weeks.
I would however decline to take the same advantage of a single branch or even multi branch local retailer.
I hope that the OP manages to find new homes for his "not so great purchase" made on a whim.

Cheers Graham.
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chauncey

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 08:15:33 AM »
Quote
I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit
No, I don't suppose that you would...just as you wouldn't try to return a lost wallet.  I would hope, however, that you are in the minority, in regard to your ethical value system.  Profiting from someone's mistakes indicates a very low self worth.
From a personal point of view, I've had the pleasure of dealing with Helen Oster and have found her professionalism to be above reproach.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 08:23:53 AM »
Quote
I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit
No, I don't suppose that you would...just as you wouldn't try to return a lost wallet.

I admit I fail to see this connection, there is a difference between criminal gain in damage to another individual and exploiting opportunities on a free market in accordance with the law - though I admit I often am not delighted by both.

I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit and making a purchase with the understanding that it may or may not come to fruition.

Maybe a look over the big pond helps ... in Germany after many trials (it's not the anglo-saxon law system) it is generally ruled that an offer is invalid if it was *obviously* a mistake on the seller's side like buying a new Ferrari for €1 instead of €1000000. In your case, the offer was too god to be true, so it wasn't.

jdramirez

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2013, 08:24:52 AM »
Quote
I am not going to apologize for seeing an opportunity which would by to my benefit
No, I don't suppose that you would...just as you wouldn't try to return a lost wallet.  I would hope, however, that you are in the minority, in regard to your ethical value system.  Profiting from someone's mistakes indicates a very low self worth.
From a personal point of view, I've had the pleasure of dealing with Helen Oster and have found her professionalism to be above reproach.

Am I pushing over baby carriages while I'm rushing to pick up the wallet? 

Good Lord.  I worked in retail... sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2013, 08:24:52 AM »

jdramirez

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2013, 08:31:03 AM »
Hi folks.
I don't know how it works throughout the world, but in the UK the seller can decline a sale. For instance I was looking for an angle grinder (for my other hobby!). I found one at a large national DIY retail chain.
It was listed on one shelf for about half what it was on another. I took one to the check out fully aware that they might not honour the price, but I wanted one anyway. The till showed the higher price, but I queried it and manager was called. They honoured the price but while I was being served the product was removed from sale, shelf labels changed and then the product returned to sale.
I had no qualms about taking advantage of this large chain as I was spending plenty of money with them over preceding and following weeks.
I would however decline to take the same advantage of a single branch or even multi branch local retailer.
I hope that the OP manages to find new homes for his "not so great purchase" made on a whim.

Cheers Graham.

That's about what we do in the states.  There would be a mistake listed in an advertisement and we would put up signs to indicate that it was a mistake and we apologize for the inconvenience. 

But if we didn't catch the mistake we did honor the error... and then printed up a sign.

Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 08:35:18 AM »
In the US, laws relating to Internet sales are not the same as for retail stores: http://digital.law.washington.edu/dspace-law/bitstream/handle/1773.1/354/vol1_no1_art2.pdf
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Re: Should I be annoyed with Adorama... or is it my own dumb fault?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 08:35:18 AM »