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Author Topic: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?  (Read 8603 times)

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2013, 02:42:23 AM »
One of the most accepted definitions of "professional" that I used to hear was that you derived the majority of your income(at least 51%) from it, to be considered a professional.  I think most would agree that hours per week have nothing to do with it.  I have weeks where I don't come anywhere close to 30-40 hrs of work and I have an "off season" where I may or may not pick up my camera for over a month.  I'm a professional by many definitions and 100% of my income for the last 16 or so years has come from being a shooter.  With that being said, I believe a lot of "non-pros" are taking offense for the wrong reasons.  I think many may feel they are bing "looked down upon".  I don't think that's the case.  Just because you're not a "professional" photographer doesn't mean you're not a great photographer, or even that you don't conduct yourself in a professional manner.  I believe most that are speaking out against non-pro's joining CPS, at least this is my viewpoint, is that because the non-pro's can potentially (unintentionally)adversely affect the service that the working pro's need from CPS.  The perfect example popped into my head, because this is about the time of year I start thinking about sending my broadcast lenses into Fujinon for clean & check's and to be serviced if they need them.  It's a first come, first served basis.  So if you're first in line you're in and out in a day or two, if you're 27th in line, well… it's gonna be a while.  So look at it that way.  If a working pro has something happen to a lens, he needs it repaired as fast as possible, but what if he sends it in and there are other repairs in front of him and they are non-pro's that don't "need" the fast service(but have the same level of membership) and they could have just sent their gear in to be repaired through normal Canon consumer channels.

We can argue semantics all day long, but you know in your heart if you are really a full-time, working pro that needs this kind of service and support.

While I can accept the cleanliness of the 51% of your income standard, I still believe there is grey area. For example, I make roughly 115k/year in my job. I'm sure guys like neuro make even more. So even if I made 50k/year from photography, I would still not be considered a pro by this measure. At 50k for the year on photo income, I am certain that is more than a fair number of photogs that currently identify themselves as full time pros.

Let's take it in another direction. What if one made 5-10k/shoot and only did 10-15 shoots a year? Is his need more or less important than the guy that does 150 shoots a year and makes less?

As a rule of thumb, I always have issue with instances where an individual or group has decided that they (or their work) are more important than another somehow. Canon as a company has decided that it is a good idea to offer this service and not make it overly difficult to get it. If a photog has a need, qualifies based on their gear, who are we to decide that what they need the service for is less important than a full-time professional's?

Furthermore, assuming the level of expedited service is affected somehow, they also offer loaners when your gear requires more time to be worked on than you can afford. So again, I fail to see how us lowly non full timers don't deserve the right to shell out our hard earned cash to receive the same level of service if we so choose.

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2013, 02:42:23 AM »

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 02:46:17 AM »
As it stands, there is a tiered setup for membership which includes one type that has expedited service as well as other perks.

Just so we are all clear, what you write there is not a global standard.

There is only tiered setup in certain countries, and as this is a global forum with members from around the world I just wanted to stress that.

Where I am, you are either a member or not, there is no tiered setup. And from what I have read on these forums and others, the benefits can be very different as well.

My apologies for not recognizing that. I was unaware of the lack of tiers in other countries. Thank you for the info. I am speaking from the viewpoint of one who resides in the US (specifically in California).

7enderbender

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2013, 09:50:33 AM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...

What is sad are posts like these as they appear to be judgmental and pompous. What, may I ask are the criteria for being a "professional?" Where is the line drawn? Primary source of income? Your main job? How many gigs you've done? How often someone has paid for an image of yours? The level of ambiguity to this determination is huge to an extent to which I don't believe you have given any thought.

I don't quite understand how anyone is taking advantage or bending the rules. I'm quite certain that if Canon/CPS was overly concerned about making their memberships exclusive only to high level pros, they would do so. I tend to believe based on the way things are set up that they are really only concerned about whether you have spent enough money on their stuff.

I have a career which pays me very well which allows me to have the luxury of owning a lot of gear without having to do photography as a job. I do paid gigs for fun here and there and have plenty of gear which doesn't all necessarily get used on those jobs. Does that make me not a professional? Am I not qualified to get my equipment worked on?

Canon sells products and provides a way for you to get them serviced which also costs money. Who is anyone to tell another photog they shouldn't be allowed to have membership if they are willing to pay the money for both?

I'm pretty sure there is a higher likelihood of running into some bad karma when you are being wrongfully judgmental of others and/or being full of yourself.

I fully agree. And not to start another argument over what "professional" means, but especially in a difficult field like this I look at this question more as driven by results more than anything else. Very few people make a good living as a full time pro photographer I would argue. And even then a lot of the income may not come directly from taking photos these days but from workshops, web services, etc.

It doesn't matter. I personally take on professional gigs every now and then - and by that I mean I get hired or asked because of my results. More often then not I do this for charity. I have a "regular" job and at the moment would likely not be able to make that same kind of money with photography that I make in my day job. That's my choice.

And with that it was also my choice to buy a lot of Canon equipment. This is Canon's business model after all. They make a professional line of camera gear and then a lot of "normal" guys (and some gals) go and buy Canon stuff as well. In return they offer a few discounts on repairs and cleanings to folks who have bought enough. How I make my money to spend on their gear is non of their business. And when talking to them I got the impression that they don't care. They actually want people to sign up. In my case even after  I broke a lens. They want members. It's a marketing tool. They want happy customers who will by more stuff later. It's not some fancy privilege. It's a discount on repairs. And a loaner program to tickle you for the next thing on your list.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 09:55:16 AM by 7enderbender »
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takesome1

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2013, 12:08:29 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...

What is sad are posts like these as they appear to be judgmental and pompous. What, may I ask are the criteria for being a "professional?" Where is the line drawn? Primary source of income? Your main job? How many gigs you've done? How often someone has paid for an image of yours? The level of ambiguity to this determination is huge to an extent to which I don't believe you have given any thought.

I don't quite understand how anyone is taking advantage or bending the rules. I'm quite certain that if Canon/CPS was overly concerned about making their memberships exclusive only to high level pros, they would do so. I tend to believe based on the way things are set up that they are really only concerned about whether you have spent enough money on their stuff.

I have a career which pays me very well which allows me to have the luxury of owning a lot of gear without having to do photography as a job. I do paid gigs for fun here and there and have plenty of gear which doesn't all necessarily get used on those jobs. Does that make me not a professional? Am I not qualified to get my equipment worked on?

Canon sells products and provides a way for you to get them serviced which also costs money. Who is anyone to tell another photog they shouldn't be allowed to have membership if they are willing to pay the money for both?

I'm pretty sure there is a higher likelihood of running into some bad karma when you are being wrongfully judgmental of others and/or being full of yourself.

I fully agree. And not to start another argument over what "professional" means, but especially in a difficult field like this I look at this question more as driven by results more than anything else. Very few people make a good living as a full time pro photographer I would argue. And even then a lot of the income may not come directly from taking photos these days but from workshops, web services, etc.

It doesn't matter. I personally take on professional gigs every now and then - and by that I mean I get hired or asked because of my results. More often then not I do this for charity. I have a "regular" job and at the moment would likely not be able to make that same kind of money with photography that I make in my day job. That's my choice.

And with that it was also my choice to buy a lot of Canon equipment. This is Canon's business model after all. They make a professional line of camera gear and then a lot of "normal" guys (and some gals) go and buy Canon stuff as well. In return they offer a few discounts on repairs and cleanings to folks who have bought enough. How I make my money to spend on their gear is non of their business. And when talking to them I got the impression that they don't care. They actually want people to sign up. In my case even after  I broke a lens. They want members. It's a marketing tool. They want happy customers who will by more stuff later. It's not some fancy privilege. It's a discount on repairs. And a loaner program to tickle you for the next thing on your list.

This is from CPS's FAQ;

"Who is Eligible for CPS Membership?
Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014)."

No where does it say I can join just because I have bought a bunch of expensive gear and get a loaner 600mm while mine is in for service so I can continue to take tweety bird pictures at the feeder.

It also says "full-time basis". Shooting the occasional wedding on the weekend wouldn't qualify you either. It says "full-time basis".

You can be a "Pro" if you received money for your services, that wouldn't qualify you either if it is not on a "full-time basis".

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2013, 12:50:07 PM »
No where does it say I can join just because I have bought a bunch of expensive gear and get a loaner 600mm while mine is in for service so I can continue to take tweety bird pictures at the feeder.

It also says "full-time basis". Shooting the occasional wedding on the weekend wouldn't qualify you either. It says "full-time basis".

You can be a "Pro" if you received money for your services, that wouldn't qualify you either if it is not on a "full-time basis".

Regarding your bird shooting comment, there are plenty of us here that shoot professionally, just not on what we would consider a "full-time" basis in the traditional sense of the term. Again, failure to recognize the ambiguity of the description here exhibits a lack of perspective. Also, the comment you've made regarding "tweety bird pictures" only further perpetuates the attitude with which I (as well as others) have issue with.

Again, as a rule of thumb, I shun and have utter disdain for anyone who has deemed themselves overly important or better than others when they have done so through false judgments and assertions.

I do not consider myself a "full-time pro" by any stretch. However, what I have done in the last month and a half is shoot four major events for large businesses/organizations as well as some less significant portrait sessions. This accounted for a roughly estimated 5% of my time allocated to "working" with the other 95% at my day job during that time span. Based on your attitude and stated opinion, a shooter like myself would not qualify. To that, I ask, how much more work have you done, how much more money have you made, were your images any better, more abundant, or more important than mine?

I'm starting to get the feeling that the core of the pain most "elite" pros feel about us lowly amateurs getting in on CPS is more derivative of being a hater than it based on how they (or their photo job) have been adversely affected by non full-timers being members.

Yes, I am fortunate enough to own a lot of gear.
No, I do not take the financial aspect very seriously.
Yes, I have a need for CPS.
No, I do not take my photography any less seriously than a "full-time pro."

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 12:57:42 PM »
And with that it was also my choice to buy a lot of Canon equipment. This is Canon's business model after all. They make a professional line of camera gear and then a lot of "normal" guys (and some gals) go and buy Canon stuff as well. In return they offer a few discounts on repairs and cleanings to folks who have bought enough. How I make my money to spend on their gear is non of their business. And when talking to them I got the impression that they don't care. They actually want people to sign up. In my case even after  I broke a lens. They want members. It's a marketing tool. They want happy customers who will by more stuff later. It's not some fancy privilege. It's a discount on repairs. And a loaner program to tickle you for the next thing on your list.

Exactly. CPS could easily (and pretty instantly) change their admittance guidelines if they wanted to. And having spoken with them also, it does not seem that they are trying to be very exclusive. What does seem to be the case is that they have assessed their resources at CPS and come to the conclusion that it is a good business decision for them to have more customers in their program.

Now if you'll all excuse me, there is a really pretty bird in the tree outside of my office (at my day job) that I have to go take pictures of.  ;D

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »
On one hand, I agree that it is unfair to the pros that the facilities originally intended for them is shared by non-pros who have qualifying gear. Plus, if something has a clear definition of a 'pro' it should be adhered to.
On the other hand, who is to say that the 'needs' of the pro is more than the 'want' of a hobbyist. Our requirements are relative; for example: a hobbyist on a trip to Hawaii might need his only lens badly to capture memories of his honeymoon while a pro might not need his backup lens that soon. Plus, as Neuro mentioned- the definition mentioned above is not a very good one.
I suppose this debate will go on, until the point Canon decides to make the requirements more stringent or open a new expedited service for non-professionals who can pay for it.
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2013, 02:22:14 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...

What is sad are posts like these as they appear to be judgmental and pompous. What, may I ask are the criteria for being a "professional?" Where is the line drawn? Primary source of income? Your main job? How many gigs you've done? How often someone has paid for an image of yours? The level of ambiguity to this determination is huge to an extent to which I don't believe you have given any thought.

I don't quite understand how anyone is taking advantage or bending the rules. I'm quite certain that if Canon/CPS was overly concerned about making their memberships exclusive only to high level pros, they would do so. I tend to believe based on the way things are set up that they are really only concerned about whether you have spent enough money on their stuff.

I have a career which pays me very well which allows me to have the luxury of owning a lot of gear without having to do photography as a job. I do paid gigs for fun here and there and have plenty of gear which doesn't all necessarily get used on those jobs. Does that make me not a professional? Am I not qualified to get my equipment worked on?

Canon sells products and provides a way for you to get them serviced which also costs money. Who is anyone to tell another photog they shouldn't be allowed to have membership if they are willing to pay the money for both?

I'm pretty sure there is a higher likelihood of running into some bad karma when you are being wrongfully judgmental of others and/or being full of yourself.
John, I don't mean to be pompous or judgemental, but I quite disagree.
I don't have a "day job" to fall back on, so I think it's only fair that Canon looks after those who depend on their equipment for a livelihood.
Being a self-employed editorial photographer is fraught with enough challenges without the worry that your camera manufacturer doesn't have your back. In this day where publications expect content for free, let's just say there are many other careers that, in comparison, pay very well. Too many times I've covered events where the hobbyists have equipment that's better and newer than mine. Most likely theirs has seen far less wear, as they don't have to come up with usable images day after day. If they miss a shot because their gear fails, yes, it's a real disappointment.  If I miss mine, I've probably lost a payday, perhaps a hard-won client, as well as being out of work until it's fixed.

Definitely don't think you are either one of those things. Awin on the other hand....

Anyhow, while I respect your opinion, I still fail to understand how not allowing certain classes of photographers to have membership would help your cause. As it stands, there is a tiered setup for membership which includes one type that has expedited service as well as other perks. I know several photographers that regularly utilize that membership and have never had a problem having all their needs met in a timely fashion. So unless having such an open enrollment process adversely affects your ability to have your needs met somehow, I don't see what the issue is.

The reason Awin's comments bothered me was because they were full of assumption and judgment all of which were unfounded.

When it comes down to it, there are countless variations in need and types of photographers who do all different levels of work out there. As such, the grey area for what would be defined as "professional" is huge. Do we base it on generated income, number of jobs, frequency, type of work, etc?

I see i ruffled someones feathers...  Here's the deal...  year after year, and this isn't the only thread talking about this, more and more people sign up or try to sign up for Canon CPS and they have, especially recently, changed the rules and benefits of signing up decreasing what they used to give to us just to accommodate demand.  I have seen multiple accounts and threads on CR and other forums where people blatantly say they are not pro's and yet they are members of Canon CPS.  Instead of being stringent and exclusive, it's more of a pay per play system, and i feel it isn't right.  You have seen in almost every sector in life where when people take advantage of a service or good, that good starts becoming more scarce, funds start depleting for it, and or quality of goods start to deteriorate.  Without bringing politics into it, a simple look at the governments welfare and unemployment insurance systems are a great example as funding has been steadily cut to recipients and it's harder and harder to access.  The same is starting to happen to this great system and it isn't right. 

As a professional, i dont always have the funding to get the best gear as it is my livelyhood and i have no other funding, day jobs, etc to pay for my gear... if my gear goes down and CPS cant help me right away because some other non-pro has the gear i would need loaned to them, then i'm losing money or not being able to accept jobs and that hurt my bottom line and darn right i'm going to be peeved.  It is what it is.  CPS is Canon Professional Services, not Canon Insurance Services or Canon I want to be a photographer but have lots of money services... 
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2013, 02:36:26 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

There are numerous enthusiasts on this forum with more lenses and bodies than most of the pros, who are members of CPS. I am on platinum. I am sure Canon view them as some of their most important customers, because they buy a lot, but they don´t use the equipment as hard as the pros and they require less services. This way the enthusiasts help financing a critical service to the pros. The cost for a CPS membership is covered in the price for the equipment, regardless of wether you are pro or amateur.

Look at the equipment lists of Elm58, Neuroanatomist or myself for that matter, we are all amateurs, but fairly enthusiastic about our hobby. Would it make sense for Canon to exclude us from CPS and risk the customer relationship? Don´t think so.
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2013, 02:47:21 PM »
...What does seem to be the case is that they have assessed their resources at CPS and come to the conclusion that it is a good business decision for them to have more customers in their program.

That's really the key point. Regardless of how anyone else feels about it, it is Canon's program and if they choose not to stringently enforce their own rules, that's their decision.

They call it "professional services" but it walks like, quacks like and swims like an affinity program, so it's hard to blame people for treating it like an affinity program.

There are probably a hundred or more things Canon could do to tighten up the system, but they don't. My observation has been that Canon seldom does anything without having a solid business reason behind it. I assume they have assessed their CPS program and come to the conclusion that this is business model that works for them.

Actually, as I'm thinking more about this, it occurs to me how brilliant their marketing strategy is.

They've adopted a restrictive but unenforced set of qualifications so that people who spend a fortune on their equipment can pay them $100 a year to become members of an exclusive "professional" club. People pay them and think they are getting away with something by "crashing" this exclusive club, when in reality everyone else in the club has also crashed the party.

Brilliant.

Now, I do feel a little sorry for the people like awinphoto, but on the other hand, this is sort of like the "I don't want video on my camera" debate.

Does Canon's defacto policy truly deplete the available resources for professionals, or does expanding the membership allow them to keep the program open for professionals. I suspect it is the latter.

In the old days, Canon and Nikon probably ran their professional services programs as loss leaders. They probably didn't make money on the service, but used other resources to subsidize it so they could keep their professional base content. But, that was in the days when there was a large professional base and profit margins were more generous.

In today's business world, every division and every subdivision has to justify it's existence and demonstrate some contribution to the bottom line. That's just how businesses are run today. I strongly suspect that management looked at CPS and determined that it could not be sustained based on the traditional model, so they had to find a way to make it self-sustaining and this is it.

So really, while I know it is frustrating for someone who was invited to the wedding, to go and find a bunch of riffraff who got in by slipping some cash under the table, try to remember that if it weren't for that riffraff you would be eating Chicken instead of Filet Mignon.
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2013, 02:48:49 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

Wrong.  according to Canon CPS, Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014).

That is directly from their own FAQ.  You are correct, i've gone to many events, Weddings, Parties, etc where guests, like neuro, has better gear than myself...  The difference is i'm getting paid and entrusted by the hosts of the event to provide the images for the event, wedding, whatever the case may be.  My gear is critical to my families income so I cannot have them go down or i'm out of business.  CPS is aimed to help us working professionals so we can experiment with new gear, buy new gear, and help us if our gear goes down to get it back up and running the best way possible. 
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2013, 03:01:09 PM »
...What does seem to be the case is that they have assessed their resources at CPS and come to the conclusion that it is a good business decision for them to have more customers in their program.

Does Canon's defacto policy truly deplete the available resources for professionals, or does expanding the membership allow them to keep the program open for professionals. I suspect it is the latter.

In the old days, Canon and Nikon probably ran their professional services programs as loss leaders. They probably didn't make money on the service, but used other resources to subsidize it so they could keep their professional base content. But, that was in the days when there was a large professional base and profit margins were more generous.

In today's business world, every division and every subdivision has to justify it's existence and demonstrate some contribution to the bottom line. That's just how businesses are run today. I strongly suspect that management looked at CPS and determined that it could not be sustained based on the traditional model, so they had to find a way to make it self-sustaining and this is it.

So really, while I know it is frustrating for someone who was invited to the wedding, to go and find a bunch of riffraff who got in by slipping some cash under the table, try to remember that if it weren't for that riffraff you would be eating Chicken instead of Filet Mignon.

Fair enough statement, but the latest changes to CPS. for instance their loaner policies, a few months ago were cited because of increasing enrollment and lack of equipment to meet the demand, hence shorter loan periods.  Of course after much push back they later revised it again so it wasn't as painful of a cut, but it is what it is...  and threads and attitudes such as what is on this very thread goes to show how changes like this is brought about in the first place.  Anywho, for what it's worth, i sent a link of this thread to CPS...  dont know what or if things can change now that they have let things get out of control, but one can hope.
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Eldar

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2013, 03:09:50 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

Wrong.  according to Canon CPS, Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014).

That is directly from their own FAQ.  You are correct, i've gone to many events, Weddings, Parties, etc where guests, like neuro, has better gear than myself...  The difference is i'm getting paid and entrusted by the hosts of the event to provide the images for the event, wedding, whatever the case may be.  My gear is critical to my families income so I cannot have them go down or i'm out of business.  CPS is aimed to help us working professionals so we can experiment with new gear, buy new gear, and help us if our gear goes down to get it back up and running the best way possible.
Then they apply different rules in different countries. In Europe they also use the word professional, but the membership application and acceptance is a pure consequence of the equipment list you have. To get to the various levels, you need a certain number of qualified bodies and lenses.

And again, to provide a service seldom used to the wealthy amateurs helps fund the critical service to the pros. I think you have the situation turned upside down. We are not the enemy here. We help!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 03:13:34 PM by Eldar »
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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2013, 03:09:50 PM »

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2013, 03:09:56 PM »
CPS is aimed for Professionals, and i'm sure if they were to find out that you were not a professional, you could lose your status.  Being both a professional and a CPS member, i find threads like these kind of sad, but, for those who take advantage and bend the rules for your own gain, karma always comes back around...
CPS is a service to those who spend enough money on Canon´s pro gear. Wether you´re a pro, an enthusiast or a wealthy gadget collector does not matter. To exclude non-pros would be very poor judgement.

Wrong.  according to Canon CPS, Membership is available only to those individuals (self-employed or employed by a professional imaging business), who plays a direct role in the creation of moving or still images for third parties on a full-time basis and are legal residents of the 50 United States, the District of Columbia (and Puerto Rico as of January 31, 2014).

That is directly from their own FAQ.  You are correct, i've gone to many events, Weddings, Parties, etc where guests, like neuro, has better gear than myself...  The difference is i'm getting paid and entrusted by the hosts of the event to provide the images for the event, wedding, whatever the case may be.  My gear is critical to my families income so I cannot have them go down or i'm out of business.  CPS is aimed to help us working professionals so we can experiment with new gear, buy new gear, and help us if our gear goes down to get it back up and running the best way possible.

Again, let us all be reminded that Canon is a business. One with a lot of people that have monetary interest in. The goal of any business is to make money. If you don't like the way the program is being run, I would think the correct direction to aim your frustration would be the company themselves for setting it up this way.

You defining or saying that CPS is for.... is mere conjecture on your part as you have no idea what their business model is or what their true intentions for CPS are. You appear to simply be upset at the fact that they are not running it the way YOU see fit and have somehow decided that it is the amateur consumer's fault.

FWIW
I keep hearing the mention of how if photography is someone's main source of income and their livelihood depends on it, their needs are inherently more important. Well hell, I once had the dream of being a photographer for a living as well. Instead, I sucked it up and took on a career doing something I could care less about so that I could fund what I loved to do instead. And now, I have the money for the gear and a membership only to have people like you try to tell me that I'm somehow bending the rules or taking advantage for my own selfish gain at your expense.

I'll tell you what. If photography were my chosen profession and things were the way they are, I wouldn't so much cry about it as I would be working to find a way to make more money so that I wouldn't have to worry so much when my gear does go out. But that's just me.

JohnDizzo15

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2013, 03:15:10 PM »

Anywho, for what it's worth, i sent a link of this thread to CPS...  dont know what or if things can change now that they have let things get out of control, but one can hope.

Seriously? LOL.

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Re: CPS...do you indeed have to be a pro or can anyone sign up?
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2013, 03:15:10 PM »