April 16, 2014, 05:09:48 AM

Author Topic: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts  (Read 12584 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 11:02:35 AM »
I believe, there is a market for such a camera and I also believe that the canon people aren't that blind an stu**d to not see that market.

Usually, I'm the first one to bash canon for being conservative, but I do think they have a very good idea of the market at least as *profit* goes - they won't release a "flashship" aps-c camera just to excel in specs but that isn't sold in sufficient numbers. Also the r&d for a supposedly 7d2 mirrored design is a dead end as the future goes.

That's where the 70d comes it: it has a "dumbed down" af system and might be inferior to a rumored 7d2, but it is close enough to the 7d1 so that it's sufficient in *absulute* specs to work as a wildlife "machine-gun" camera type. Once the 7d2 or whatever-its-called comes in at $2000+ manyy people will give the 70d a second look and consider a better lens instead.

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 11:02:35 AM »

candc

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2013, 11:11:53 AM »
I believe, there is a market for such a camera and I also believe that the canon people aren't that blind an stu**d to not see that market.

Usually, I'm the first one to bash canon for being conservative, but I do think they have a very good idea of the market at least as *profit* goes - they won't release a "flashship" aps-c camera just to excel in specs but that isn't sold in sufficient numbers. Also the r&d for a supposedly 7d2 mirrored design is a dead end as the future goes.

That's where the 70d comes it: it has a "dumbed down" af system and might be inferior to a rumored 7d2, but it is close enough to the 7d1 so that it's sufficient in *absulute* specs to work as a wildlife "machine-gun" camera type. Once the 7d2 or whatever-its-called comes in at $2000+ manyy people will give the 70d a second look and consider a better lens instead.

I expect that the extra AF modes will be enabled via firmware on the 70d but not until the 7d gets replaced or discontinued.

Sella174

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2013, 11:52:59 AM »
I have four theories ...

ONE ... Somebody at Canon goofed by accidentally releasing the 7DII labeled as the 70D.

TWO ... Canon has finally realised that they cannot ignore DSLM cameras any longer and now plan on migrating their APS-C cameras over to mirrorless technology.

THREE ... This is a false rumour by Canon, because sales of 7D camera dropped significantly as everyone are holding out for the Mark II.

FOUR ... I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
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jdramirez

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2013, 12:38:42 PM »
I have four theories ...

ONE ... Somebody at Canon goofed by accidentally releasing the 7DII labeled as the 70D.

TWO ... Canon has finally realised that they cannot ignore DSLM cameras any longer and now plan on migrating their APS-C cameras over to mirrorless technology.

THREE ... This is a false rumour by Canon, because sales of 7D camera dropped significantly as everyone are holding out for the Mark II.

FOUR ... I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

I'm not willing to jump into the mirrorless pool... not even as a back up... just seems cheap... putting an L lens on one seems like putting rims on a pinto... but I'm biased so there's no validity to my opinion.

I kinda think 3 might have some merit.  The USED 7D market is remarkably low.  I've said this before, but I picked up a 7D with 2704 actuations along with a 28-135 for $650... so if I sell the lens for $200... that would be $450... I'm 100% sure this is atypical, but a really good condition 7D selling for $700-800 still doesn't seem to make much sense. 

It is a really good camera and it seems weird that it is suffering that much depreciation, especially when people are jumping at the chance to buy a 70D for $1000... but maybe dual pixel and wifi really make all the difference in the world. :/
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2013, 01:01:42 PM »
maybe dual pixel and wifi really make all the difference in the world. :/

Yes, anything that doesn't directly upload to facebook is now nearly obsolete  ::)
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AprilForever

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2013, 01:03:26 PM »
1. There had better be a 7d MK II.

2. I hate video. Optimize my camera for still images.

Divergance is an extremely important concept Canon does not get. See this link...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_appeal_for_divergence_and_simplicity.shtml

3. The 7d mk II MUST be APS-C. I have discussed many times on this forum the superior nature of APS-C.

Canon, listen, or let the K3 eat your ever dwindling customer base...
What is truth?

mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2013, 01:15:23 PM »
Divergance is an extremely important concept Canon does not get. See this link...

Thanks for posting, I couldn't agree more. And this goes beyond camera's IMHO. Cars for instance are turning into smartphones as well. Aaarrgghhh!!
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2013, 01:15:23 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2013, 01:17:39 PM »
I have discussed many times on this forum the superior nature of APS-C.

APS-C is superior in that the sensor is cheaper to produce, meaning cheaper bodies, or additional features added in lieu of a better sensor.  The economic argument can be extended to cheaper/smaller/lighter wide and normal lenses.  If you think APS-C is superior in other ways, you're deluding yourself.

Canon, listen, or let the K3 eat your ever dwindling customer base...

...and this statement confirms that you're deluding yourself.  In a big way.
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candc

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2013, 01:33:04 PM »
 is an aps-c sensor really cheaper to produce? You would think the 70d sensor with its smaller photo sites and dual pixel tech would be more expensive than the 6d sensor which is about the same mp count?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2013, 01:45:50 PM »
is an aps-c sensor really cheaper to produce? You would think the 70d sensor with its smaller photo sites and dual pixel tech would be more expensive than the 6d sensor which is about the same mp count?

Pixel size doesn't matter significantly (as long as the density is achievable with the process scale being used (500 nm, 180 nm, etc.).  Area matters - you get a lot more APS-C sensors than FF from a wafer; the larger sensor also means a higher QC failure rate, raising the cost further.
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Lawliet

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2013, 02:06:03 PM »
If you think APS-C is superior in other ways, you're deluding yourself.

At least if you have an EVF and electronic shutter.
Otherwise you introduce guesswork or a mostly masked out OVF as costs for the reduced workload of partial readout and the curtains still have to travel the whole height of the sensor. Canon isn't exactly doing much in that regard though.

dickgrafixstop

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2013, 02:10:43 PM »
The famous industrial designer Charles Eames had a motto - "Innovate as a last resort".  I'm
delighted to see that this may well have become the mantra of the Canon design team.

candc

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2013, 02:20:48 PM »
is an aps-c sensor really cheaper to produce? You would think the 70d sensor with its smaller photo sites and dual pixel tech would be more expensive than the 6d sensor which is about the same mp count?

Pixel size doesn't matter significantly (as long as the density is achievable with the process scale being used (500 nm, 180 nm, etc.).  Area matters - you get a lot more APS-C sensors than FF from a wafer; the larger sensor also means a higher QC failure rate, raising the cost further.
I suppose that's true, I just don't think that it is the huge cost difference its made out to be and if its the sensors area and not pixel count is what makes it expensive then they should hurry up with the high mp ff sensor. I think its as much about marketing as anything. If they were able to make a high mp camera with super dr  and low noise it would not make business sense to release it, why make the last upgrade you really need? Makes more sense to sell you incremental upgrades over time. Maybe I am just being cynical but I think there is some degree of truth in that.

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2013, 02:20:48 PM »

candc

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2013, 02:38:41 PM »
Here's another way to look at it,

You can buy an sl1 with a kit lens for $500, what do you suppose it costs canon to produce the sensor in that camera, $50-$100? You could put 2 of those side by side vertically and get a 36mp ff sensor

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »
Why all the speculation? Just bring out the crystal ball. Oops, just dropped and broke mine. Hack Canon? Dont know how. Besides,it's against the law. In the USA at least....     Ok, in that case Canon will buy Nikon and possibly other companies and become a monopoly. Then they will produce the 7D7, combining the best features of the 70d and the current 7d, enhancing fps and video capabilities, slightly improved sensor, and adding smartphone capabilities to attract that market. Sort of an all-in-one to please everyone, except fullframers & mirrorless users. Sorry Nikon users, nothing for you. The cost? Who knows, since they will be a monopoly. ???
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »