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Author Topic: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts  (Read 17005 times)

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 09:02:03 AM »
My two rupees:

1) If Canon did plan to release 7D II any time soon, it would release it before 70D. Playing the same game it did with Nikon on FF bodies last year: first release expensive camera, wait 6 month for current owners to upgrade, than release cheaper camera that has similar specs as old model + some new stuff (like wi-fi).

2) Current Canon's APS-C lineup has enough segmentation: 100D, 700D, 70D. It makes more sense to limit it to these 3 (+ old models) with price points below FF cameras ($1500). And 60D obviously needed update (because it looked very strange on its initial release: with features like MFA removed most of reviewers called 'oversized rebel' or similar).

What Canon do need to release soon is another FF camera that would sit between current 6D and 5D prices (let's say at MSRP $2000-2500) -- to lure more users into FF world and to sell them more EF lenses (while they can). If Canon will be forced to release mirrorless FF with new lens mount (and they will have to do it, if Nikon will do it) that will create another 'bastard' member in EOS family (like EOS M), and another 'dead end' in the roadmap for EF lenses (like EF-M).

(After that they can re-release new and mighty 7D II with price point of $5000 and weight of 10 pounds for dedicated bird and sport shooters.)  :)
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 09:02:03 AM »

AprilForever

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2013, 10:46:50 AM »
There are news about this topic:

http://www.canonwatch.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

It appears there will be a new high-end APS-C DSLR but its name will not be 7D Mark II  ::)

Oddly, I feel this is true. Remember the rumors about the 1dx? About there being no 1d4s? This has the same feel. I don't care too badly what the new name is, as long as they don't meddle with what the 7D is...
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RLPhoto

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2013, 10:54:28 AM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2013, 11:20:54 AM »
There are news about this topic:

http://www.canonwatch.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

It appears there will be a new high-end APS-C DSLR but its name will not be 7D Mark II  ::)

Oddly, I feel this is true. Remember the rumors about the 1dx? About there being no 1d4s? This has the same feel. I don't care too badly what the new name is, as long as they don't meddle with what the 7D is...

How about "1D Z" (or "1D Y") name and proper price range because it targets limited and very specific user base (that's not too crowded by 'mass market consumers who will be better off with FF')?  :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:22:38 AM by Zlyden »
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, G16 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

RLPhoto

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2013, 12:00:04 PM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)

But if you don't need FF, the 7D was the camera to get.

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:05 PM »
On the other hand:

How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

Just 3 = 10-22, 17-55 and 60-macro?

The rest of EF-S family are 'kit lenses' for this or that camera model (18-55, 55-250, 17-85, 15-85, 18-135 and 18-200). These lenses were needed to make specific camera models attractive to some target users at some point in time.

Those who purchased 7D are supposed to use its 'kit lens' = EF-S 15-85. If they use EF 300 lens with 7D -- they are probably regarded by Canon as 'cheaters' who managed to get away from purchase of 5D.

So it looks like: Canon never treated APS-C cameras too seriously. These cameras were needed and intended to bring new users into EOS system. APS-C camera users were supposed to purchase EF lenses (with existing EF-S lens lineup being so limited) and to make a switch to FF cameras 'some time later' (= now!).

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:05 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:42 PM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.
Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)

yes, quite possibly. If Canon had sold it at 6D price.  :-)

mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »
On the other hand:

How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

Just 3 = 10-22, 17-55 and 60-macro?

The rest of EF-S family are 'kit lenses' for this or that camera model (18-55, 55-250, 17-85, 15-85, 18-135 and 18-200). These lenses were needed to make specific camera models attractive to some target users at some point in time.

Those who purchased 7D are supposed to use its 'kit lens' = EF-S 15-85. If they use EF 300 lens with 7D -- they are probably regarded by Canon as 'cheaters' who managed to get away from purchase of 5D.

So it looks like: Canon never treated APS-C cameras too seriously. These cameras were needed and intended to bring new users into EOS system. APS-C camera users were supposed to purchase EF lenses (with existing EF-S lens lineup being so limited) and to make a switch to FF cameras 'some time later' (= now!).

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Interesting post, I think you may be right.
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Sella174

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2013, 01:19:49 PM »
How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

And how many of those EF-S lenses are true APS-C lenses and not merely crummy FF'ish lenses?
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AprilForever

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2013, 01:32:37 PM »
There are news about this topic:

http://www.canonwatch.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

It appears there will be a new high-end APS-C DSLR but its name will not be 7D Mark II  ::)

Oddly, I feel this is true. Remember the rumors about the 1dx? About there being no 1d4s? This has the same feel. I don't care too badly what the new name is, as long as they don't meddle with what the 7D is...

How about "1D Z" (or "1D Y") name and proper price range because it targets limited and very specific user base (that's not too crowded by 'mass market consumers who will be better off with FF')?  :)

I was thinking it might be a 1D something... 1D mk V? 1D Y or Z sound odd, butt so does X... 1DZ actually sounds like they might do it...
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Random Orbits

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2013, 01:37:33 PM »
...

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Perhaps true for those that don't already own a EOS camera, but probably not for those that do.  For those that do, the M serves as a more portable solution that can be used in a pinch with other EOS lenses.  The 11-22/20/18-55 setup would be about as far as I'd take the M setup -- a compact travel kit. 

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 01:48:01 PM »
...

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Perhaps true for those that don't already own a EOS camera, but probably not for those that do.  For those that do, the M serves as a more portable solution that can be used in a pinch with other EOS lenses.  The 11-22/20/18-55 setup would be about as far as I'd take the M setup -- a compact travel kit.

Yes. Thanks!

We all (most of us) have EOS M, because it's small and allows us to use existing lenses (if needs arise)  :)

But >>> in normal Canon's 'lineup-upsell-play' (like that of 3 years ago) such camera should play a role of 'introducing new users to great and wonderful world of EOS and EF lenses'.

It does not. It just can't.

So, EOS M plays the role of 'bastard' in the family (everybody loves it except parents who had to accept it with a scowl), and EF-M is a 'dead-end' in EF lenses roadmap because it makes no sense to use larger lenses on EOS M (unless you already have these...)
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 01:48:01 PM »

Maximilian

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2013, 02:29:15 PM »
I believe, there is a market for such a camera and I also believe that the canon people aren't that blind an stu**d to not see that market.

Usually, I'm the first one to bash canon for being conservative, but I do think they have a very good idea of the market at least as *profit* goes - they won't release a "flashship" aps-c camera just to excel in specs but that isn't sold in sufficient numbers. Also the r&d for a supposedly 7d2 mirrored design is a dead end as the future goes.

That's where the 70d comes it: it has a "dumbed down" af system and might be inferior to a rumored 7d2, but it is close enough to the 7d1 so that it's sufficient in *absulute* specs to work as a wildlife "machine-gun" camera type. Once the 7d2 or whatever-its-called comes in at $2000+ manyy people will give the 70d a second look and consider a better lens instead.
I can follow your argumentation, that some will consider the 70d instead of the 7d2 (or what it might be called, if it comes) but there are also people that want and/or need that "machine-gun" and so Canon takes advantage in both.
But what I didn't believe, when i Saw the rumored specs was the price or the specs that would come at "just" $2000+.

Let's just see, what Canon marketing is deciding...
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »
Let's just see, what Canon marketing is deciding...

Considering this is a "flagship" model, it is expected and longed for for a very long time, and the target crowd includes enthusiasts with deep pockets I bet they'll put a very large early adopter's premium on it... as long as it's below a 5d3+longer tele lens it'll find enough buyers @€2000+

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »