December 19, 2014, 03:27:49 PM

Author Topic: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?  (Read 5664 times)

RLPhoto

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:15 AM »
If you don't mind the AF on your rebel, You have nearly the same experience or slightly better with 5D2/6D/60D or pretty much any camera with the 9 Point AF system. You'll have the same issues with it such as off-center focusing with high-speed primes or with moving subjects off-center.

I believe lumping the 60D and 6D AF together is slightly misleading, as the 60D has all cross points.  One of my disappointments with the announcement of the 6D was the AF actually being a step DOWN from my 60D's AF.  I just couldn't see "upgrading" to something that made quick accurate focus more challenging, despite the wonderful reviews of the sensor.

As to the original poster's question, IMO, the 5DIII makes life with very shallow depth of field apertures quite a bit easier, especially with close up portraiture.  Recomposing at f/1.2 - f/2 is hit or miss for me when I want the iris to be perfectly sharp, but having a big choice of accurate AF points makes it work most of the time.

On the other hand, fellow photographers in my area who use 5DII's and Rebels, and who have much better eyes for landscape, street, and found still-life, outshoot me in those categories some of the time, simply because they have a better grasp of composition and natural light--and years more experience.

You have to decide whether the convenience and flexibility of the "better" AF systems are worth the $1k premium you will pay.  The "better" choice is the one you can afford and use well.  Don't get in a gear measuring match, just shoot, study, process, get critiques, and repeat over and over.

The 60D AF was slightly better but nothing to cry home about.

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:15 AM »

Mr_Canuck

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 09:27:34 AM »
When you describe how your focal lengths are currently perfect, and that a priority shooting context is indoor volleyball, I would push you away from the 6D toward the 7D. You're going to feel like you've really stepped away from the action on a full-frame sensor in terms of focal length. Your "150" becomes a 100. Your "300" becomes 200. Your "52" becomes 35. Everything will be much wider. In addition, don't you want a super fast AF experience especially for continuous shooting? Both focal length and action AF point away from full-frame and limited AF capabilities.
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7enderbender

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 10:41:12 AM »
I personally would rule out the 6D for myself for other reasons. AF performance is not necessarily one of them. Few examples:

I have a 5DII and the AF is considered "bad" on this one. It works for me. In fact, I recently shot an event with my 5DII and a 5DIII. The results in the end and the number of keepers from each camera were pretty similar. I didn't think the number of AF points on the Mark III was particularly helpful. They are centered around the middle just like on any other modern AF camera. If they were spread out further it may be a different story but just having more points in more or less the same center section of the frame doesn't change much for me. Yes, it's a bit faster and all, but like I said under real life circumstances I found no reason to spend more money and switch. I'd rather spend the money on a second 5DII actually.

With the 6D I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. It'll work just fine for most applications. In fact, I was just messing around with an old Nikon N6006 film body and found the one AF center point quite refreshing. Shockingly, that thing isn't really that much slower or finicky in low light compared to today's stuff - and we're talking a straight consumer product. Just a wee bit more noisy ;-)
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2013, 10:50:18 AM »
...I would push you away from the 6D toward the 7D. You're going to feel like you've really stepped away from the action on a full-frame sensor in terms of focal length. Your "150" becomes a 100. Your "300" becomes 200. Your "52" becomes 35. Everything will be much wider.

If you crop a 6D image to the FoV of an APS-C camera, the resulting image will have 7.8 MP, equivalent IQ up to ISO ~800, and progressively better IQ as the ISO goes up.  Since the OP mentions ISO 6400, the 6D will be substantially better even cropped by 1.6x, assuming 7.8 MP is sufficient for the needed output.

While the AF of the 5DIII is superior to the 6D, the OP is getting great shots with the T1i - he should do fine with the AF of the 6D.
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Cory

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2013, 10:57:45 AM »
Every post had great info.  Many thanks.
I think if a decision was made today it might point to the 6D.  I think I'll wait to see what shakes out and then make some sort of move at that time.  By then the 6D might be it, the 70D might be supported by LR or there might be another something or other.  Seems like any compromise becomes an issue 10% (or less) of the time so striving for the perfect choice probably won't ever happen.  Either way my wife will be pissed which is really the goal anyway.
Thanks again.
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sdsr

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2013, 11:41:20 AM »
Given your success rate with your current camera and focusing system/technique, I suspect that you would be disappointed by an upgrade to any other APS-C; you certainly won't get a "wow" inducing improvement in image quality, even if you prefer the focus system.  As neuro and others have explained, you will see a significant improvement if you move to a 6D, especially in low light/high ISOs; but you should also see (albeit to a lesser extent) improved detail in good light, too - your EF lenses will perform better (go to thedigitalpicture and do some comparisons).  You will also likely find that processing RAW images works better too - there's more detail to play with, which helps with repairing under/over-exposed bits, for instance. 

(Of course, as someone else noted, there may be a wow factor you're looking for that has nothing to do with camera body performance and may instead be related to composition, lighting and so on but most of that's subjective.  For instance, I think some of your photos would have benefited from being taken at a time of day when the sun wasn't overhead - but of course sometimes there's no choice - or otherwise being less bright, but that's just me.)

And while the 6D doesn't have as good a focus system as the 5DIII or 1Dx, it's not as bad as some keep saying - I use outer points in even low light pretty successfully when I don't want to focus/recompose (the one time I compared them directly, I found that if my 6D won't focus in low light on an outer point, chances are my 5DIII won't either), and while the 5DIII/1Dx have far more focus points to choose from, they don't occupy a significantly larger portion of the image area (for that you need mirrorless). 

Anyway, as you seem willing to rent, why not rent a 6D and judge for yourself?  You may (or may not) be pleasantly surprised.

Cory

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2013, 11:47:32 AM »
Given your success rate with your current camera and focusing system/technique, I suspect that you would be disappointed by an upgrade to any other APS-C; you certainly won't get a "wow" inducing improvement in image quality, even if you prefer the focus system.  As neuro and others have explained, you will see a significant improvement if you move to a 6D, especially in low light/high ISOs; but you should also see (albeit to a lesser extent) improved detail in good light, too - your EF lenses will perform better (go to thedigitalpicture and do some comparisons).  You will also likely find that processing RAW images works better too - there's more detail to play with, which helps with repairing under/over-exposed bits, for instance. 

(Of course, as someone else noted, there may be a wow factor you're looking for that has nothing to do with camera body performance and may instead be related to composition, lighting and so on but most of that's subjective.  For instance, I think some of your photos would have benefited from being taken at a time of day when the sun wasn't overhead - but of course sometimes there's no choice - or otherwise being less bright, but that's just me.)

And while the 6D doesn't have as good a focus system as the 5DIII or 1Dx, it's not as bad as some keep saying - I use outer points in even low light pretty successfully when I don't want to focus/recompose (the one time I compared them directly, I found that if my 6D won't focus in low light on an outer point, chances are my 5DIII won't either), and while the 5DIII/1Dx have far more focus points to choose from, they don't occupy a significantly larger portion of the image area (for that you need mirrorless). 

Anyway, as you seem willing to rent, why not rent a 6D and judge for yourself?  You may (or may not) be pleasantly surprised.
Thanks.  I think I'm going to do that - rent a 6D for the minimal # of days.
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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2013, 11:47:32 AM »

Cory

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2013, 12:58:58 PM »
Two last questions - Do many find 35mm wide enough most of the time and would adding a 50 be redundant?

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BL

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2013, 01:50:02 PM »
After using the 40mm pancake for the better part of a year, I don't miss either :D

But if I had to pick one, I'd pick 35mm over the 50mm (all else the same, aperture, etc.)
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Skirball

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2013, 01:57:42 PM »
Two last questions - Do many find 35mm wide enough most of the time and would adding a 50 be redundant?

 :-*

Both those questions are entirely subjective.  Though I think many would agree 35 isn't very wide.

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2013, 03:51:32 PM »
Two last questions - Do many find 35mm wide enough most of the time and would adding a 50 be redundant?

 :-*

Do you mean for FF or crop?  On crop 35m isn't wide at all.  On FF I usually find 35mm too wide, unless I'm in certain interiors or fairly cramped spaces (alleys etc.), when it probably isn't wide enough, or want a really wide angle, in which case it's nowhere near wide enough.  But that's neither here nor there - what matters is whether it's wide enough for you.  If you're asking about crop, how often have you wanted to go wider?  If you're asking about FF, consider this - if you've been using 35mm a lot on your crop and like that angle of view, to get something similar in FF you'll need c. 55mm. There were plenty of such lenses in the film era (I just bought a couple), but few make them today; the closest is 50mm.  So if you want a familiar view through your viewfinder, a 50mm won't be redundant at all (I find 50mm much more useful than 35mm, but again, that's just me).  But you don't need to decide any of this now - if you rent a 6D, try your lenses on it and find out if you like how their "native" field of view looks to you.  You might discover new "needs" instead....

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Re: Can Simpler (Single Focus Point) Be "Better" - Canon 6D?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2013, 03:51:32 PM »