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Author Topic: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]  (Read 85697 times)

Gothmoth

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2011, 05:34:56 AM »
If it's a D3s competitor, am I the only one who's thinking it's too late? Nikon MAY announce a D4 next year. And they probably may have some killer features...?

we know a S__t about the new camera but it´s already too late.. yeah...   ::)
canon should stop making cameras....


Quote
D3s can't AF-C in 10 fps mode. A77 can

with other restrictions.. yes.

anyway. there is no lightspeed barrier that is impossible to break for canon.
12-14 frames per second are possible.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 06:09:55 AM by Gothmoth »

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2011, 05:34:56 AM »

gmrza

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2011, 06:07:18 AM »
Whatever this camera is called, it definitely won't replace the current 1D4 for a lot of people. It would be a huge step down for most wildlife  and some sports photographers who use telephoto lenses. Suddenly you're going to have to be 30% closer to your subjects or have to crop and get less pixels on your subject than with the current 1D4. Although I have absolutely no interest or need for a fast full frame camera, it sounds from this thread that some people want such a contraption. I hope Canon makes them happy.

That is why I doubt a 1DIV replacement would have 18MP full frame.  What sounds more plausible is the concept of the 1DIV replacement being a full frame camera with a 1.3 crop mode that yields 18MP.  That would translate into just under 30.5MP in a full frame.

18MP full frame would probably result in a revolt of sports and wildlife shooters.  If you use a 300mm on an APS-H sensor, you would need a 400mm on full frame.  Just look at the price difference between a 300mm f/2.8 and a 400mm f/2.8.
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NormanBates

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2011, 06:46:18 AM »
do you know what a 16-18 Mpix sensor is great for?

VIDEO

it's exactly what the RED EPIC has: 5K resolution, which leads to very nice 4K video after debayering; on Canon hands, I'd expect it to lead to very nice 1080p with easy 4-to-1 pixel binning

and with a lower resolution it can also be faster, meaning less rolling shutter, and higher frame rates (60p not restricted to 720p)

so my bet is for a 3D, 6D or 8D with full frame, geared for video DSLR enthusiasts

(which one it is, and which price it comes out at, will probably depend on how fast it can shoot stills, and how the video is stored: if it is 1080p with a 4:2:2 codec, I expect 6D or 8D at $1500 to $2500 depending on quality of body; if it is sRAW video at 24fps, expect 3D at $4K or more)

Gothmoth

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2011, 07:19:18 AM »
do you know what a 16-18 Mpix sensor is great for?

VIDEO

it's exactly what the RED EPIC has: 5K resolution, which leads to very nice 4K video after debayering; on Canon hands, I'd expect it to lead to very nice 1080p with easy 4-to-1 pixel binning


and it would fit to the 3 november event in hollywood.

dr croubie

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2011, 07:29:59 AM »
and it would fit to the 3 november event in hollywood.


But why would they announce it on Octember 18th, then announce it on November 3rd again?
Unless November 3rd is release date, and they actually have it in-stores by then?
3-weeks is still nowhere near apple's announce-to-stores speed, but it'd beat canon's latest performance with the year-long waits...
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te4o

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2011, 07:36:24 AM »
So, do you think Canon will announce one Pro DSLR on 18 October AND another one on 3 Nov  ?

I am with NormanBates - "only" 18 MP in 2011 means a lot more technology behind/among them than 21 MP in 2008. A new censor is on its way most probably. And I guess that from now on all Canons will have it in different sizes but this is just a guess. This definitely is a reason to delay announcements beyond the standard release dates.
Remember, when Ford was asked while setting up the Ford T production line whether he was guided by consumer demand he said - Ah, if I'd ask the consumers (users) what improved means of transport they need they'd say they just need faster horses...
Do we merely talk "faster horses" here ?
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Gothmoth

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2011, 07:40:24 AM »
canon does not have to announce 2 DSLR because they have two events.

18 october could be the announcement of the DSLR and on november 3 it could be about ron howards film project + the new camera.

a new video oriented camera would fit.

maybe ron howard used the new camera (8D?) for the imagin8tion movie?
what could be better to promote a new video DSLR camera?

just wild guesses sure... ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:48:34 AM by Gothmoth »

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2011, 07:40:24 AM »

niccyboy

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2011, 07:50:07 AM »
do you know what a 16-18 Mpix sensor is great for?

VIDEO

it's exactly what the RED EPIC has: 5K resolution, which leads to very nice 4K video after debayering; on Canon hands, I'd expect it to lead to very nice 1080p with easy 4-to-1 pixel binning

and with a lower resolution it can also be faster, meaning less rolling shutter, and higher frame rates (60p not restricted to 720p)

so my bet is for a 3D, 6D or 8D with full frame, geared for video DSLR enthusiasts

(which one it is, and which price it comes out at, will probably depend on how fast it can shoot stills, and how the video is stored: if it is 1080p with a 4:2:2 codec, I expect 6D or 8D at $1500 to $2500 depending on quality of body; if it is sRAW video at 24fps, expect 3D at $4K or more)

This could be cool. If only they could increase that FPS to stupid levels so we can have some fun like a mini phantom flex haha.

But why would they invite canon pro photographers? Wouldn't they try and get Film makers, videographers etc instead?

Most professional photographers do not also own Red Epics. Nor would most of them be in the market for them? Obviously the 50k+ price is a big stopping point, but more so... why would they need one? Combining the features into a PHOTOGRAPHIC camera yes, but what you described is a VIDEO machine...

correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't it be presenting to the wrong audience?

Gothmoth

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2011, 07:51:56 AM »

But why would they invite canon pro photographers? Wouldn't they try and get Film makers, videographers etc instead

i guess that is where november 3 comes in place....

ze

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2011, 07:58:30 AM »
I agree on a hint it could be Foveon-like sensor Canon has patented. Then it's 18*3 = 54Mp, which is quite a lot. if D800 is also Foveon-like, then I assume their 36Mp should be devided on 3, which makes just 12 true Mpix. In this case new Canon-flagship will spoil D800 presentation :)

I also think that if a new 1D Mark( ) get announced, it would be the with the new 3 layered sensor technology 18x3=54Mp. It was rumored before that we would see big improvement in dynamic range. Would this be it? We shall see.

dstppy

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2011, 08:01:20 AM »
and it would fit to the 3 november event in hollywood.


But why would they announce it on Octember 18th, then announce it on November 3rd again?
Unless November 3rd is release date, and they actually have it in-stores by then?
3-weeks is still nowhere near apple's announce-to-stores speed, but it'd beat canon's latest performance with the year-long waits...

Maybe we're getting TWO bodies!  ;D

What, I can be an optimist . . . hey, while I'm wishing, maybe they'll price the new full-frame DSLR under $3k :)
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Fleetie

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2011, 08:35:05 AM »
I agree on a hint it could be Foveon-like sensor Canon has patented. Then it's 18*3 = 54Mp, which is quite a lot. if D800 is also Foveon-like, then I assume their 36Mp should be devided on 3, which makes just 12 true Mpix. In this case new Canon-flagship will spoil D800 presentation :)

Where on Earth do people keep getting this idea from? That an 18MPix Foveon-like sensor is equivalent to an (18*3) MPix "conventional" sensor?

I have seen this over and over on here recently, not just from the one poster, either.

AFAIK, 1 pixel on a conventional sensor consists of 1 each of {R, G, B} sub-pixels.

So in terms of quantity of data recorded, both are identical.

Unless I am really missing something?
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Gothmoth

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2011, 08:41:31 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor

Quote
Comparison to Bayer filter sensors – operational differences
 
The operation of the Foveon X3 sensor is quite different from that of the Bayer filter image sensor more commonly used in digital cameras. In the Bayer sensor, each photosite in the array consists of a single light sensor (either CMOS or CCD) that, as a result of filtration, is exposed to only one of the three primary colors, red, green, or blue. Constructing a full color image from a Bayer sensor requires demosaicing, an interpolative process in which the output pixel associated with each photosite is assigned an RGB value based in part on the level of red, green, and blue reported by those photosites adjacent to it. The Foveon X3 sensor creates its RGB color output for each photosite by combining the outputs of each of the stacked photodiodes at each of its photosites. This operational difference results in several significant consequences.
.....
Spatial resolution
 
According to Sigma Corporation, "there has been some controversy in how to specify the number of pixels in Foveon sensors."[24] The argument has been over whether sellers should count the number of photosites, or the total number of photodiodes, as a megapixel count, and whether either of those should be compared with the number of photodiodes in a Bayer filter sensor or camera as a measure of resolution.
 
For example, the dimensions of the photosite array in the sensor in the Sigma SD10 camera are 2268 × 1512, and the camera produces a native file size of those dimensions (times three color layers). This amounts to approximately 3.4 million three-color pixels. However, it has been advertised as a 10.2 MP camera by taking account of the fact that each photosite contains stacked red, green, and blue color sensing photodiodes, or pixel sensors (2268 × 1512 × 3). By comparison, the dimensions of the photosite array in the 10.2 MP Bayer sensor in the Nikon D200 camera are 3872 × 2592, but there is only one photodiode, or one pixel sensor, at each site. The cameras have equal numbers of photodiodes, and produce similar RAW data file sizes, but the Bayer filter camera produces a larger native file size via demosaicing.
 
However, the actual resolution produced by the Bayer sensor is more complicated than the count of its photosites, or its native file size, might suggest. The reason has to do with both the demosaicing and the separate anti-aliasing filter commonly used to reduce the occurrence or severity of color moiré patterns that the mosaic characteristic of the Bayer sensor produces. The effect of this filter is to blur the image output of the sensor, thus producing a lower resolution than the photosite count would seem to imply. This filter is largely unnecessary with the Foveon X3 sensor and is not used. The earliest camera with a Foveon X3 sensor, the Sigma SD9, showed visible luminance moiré patterns, but not color moiré.[25] Subsequent X3-equipped cameras have less aliasing because they include microlenses, which provide an effective anti-aliasing filter by averaging the optical signal over an area commensurate with the sample density, which is not possible in any color channel of a Bayer-type sensor. Aliasing from the Foveon X3 sensor is "far less bothersome because it's monochrome" according to Norman Koren.[26] Therefore, in theory, it is possible for a Foveon X3 sensor with the same number of photodiodes as a Bayer sensor and no separate anti-aliasing filter to attain a higher spatial resolution than that Bayer sensor. Independent tests indicate that the "10.2 MP" array of the Foveon X3 sensor (in the Sigma SD10) has a resolution similar to a 5 MP[27] or 6 MP[28] Bayer sensor, and at low ISO speed even similar to a 7.2 MP[29] Bayer sensor.
 
With the introduction of the Sigma SD14, the 14 MP (4.7 MP red + 4.7 MP green + 4.7 MP blue) Foveon X3 sensor resolution is being compared favorably by reviewers to that of 10 MP Bayer sensors. For example, Mike Chaney of ddisoftware says, "the SD14 produces better photos than a typical 10 MP dSLR because it is able to carry sharp detail all the way to the 'falloff' point at 1700 LPI whereas contrast, color detail, and sharpness begin to degrade long before the 1700 LPI limit on a Bayer based 10 MP dSLR."[30] Another article judges the Foveon X3 sensor as roughly equivalent to a 9 MP Bayer sensor.[31] A visual comparison between a 14 MP Foveon sensor and a 12.3 MP Bayer sensor shows Foveon has crisper details.[32]


so the 3x pixel count is exaggerated for real world examples.
at least when it comes to foveon sensors.
don´t know yet what canon can achive...  ;)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 08:53:25 AM by Gothmoth »

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2011, 08:41:31 AM »

NormanBates

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2011, 09:20:39 AM »
So, do you think Canon will announce one Pro DSLR on 18 October AND another one on 3 Nov  ?

no, I think they'll announce a DSLR on 18 oct and a video camera on 3 nov

they may share the same sensor, but the video camera will have lots of pro features (XLR inputs, manual audio levels and headphones jack,  peaking+zebras+histogram/waveform while recording, maybe even interchangeable lens mount for PL lenses, but that means APS-C sensor so let's hope not), and a price tag to match

NormanBates

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2011, 09:26:26 AM »
AFAIK, 1 pixel on a conventional sensor consists of 1 each of {R, G, B} sub-pixels.

No: in a bayer sensor, each pixel (photosite) has just one color, whereas in a foveon sensor each pixel has all three colors

the 18mpix sensor in my canon DSLR has 9 million green photosites, 4.5 million red photosites, and 4.5 million blue photosites

that's why it looks so soft when debayered into an 18mpix RGB image

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Re: New DSLR on Tuesday, October 18, 2011. [CR3]
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2011, 09:26:26 AM »