October 25, 2014, 03:01:23 PM

Author Topic: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?  (Read 9423 times)

rs

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 670
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2013, 07:30:52 AM »
If you're purely looking at detail/resolving power and noise, here is a way of quantifying your choices:

70D vs T3i resolving power with the same lens:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=845&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&Sample=0&SampleComp=0&CameraComp=759&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0
With such a good lens, there is a slight difference between the two bodies, but it really doesn't amount to much. Use a lesser lens such as variable aperture EF-S zooms, and that difference will be pretty much gone.

70D vs T3i noise:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx
Again there are differences, but even after scrutinising it, it's difficult to say which one wins that test.

18-55 II vs 15-85 on the same body:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=675&Camera=736&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=0&LensComp=763&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=1&APIComp=0
Again, a slight difference, but it really doesn't amount to much.

However, with both upgrades there are aspects which IQ tests don't reveal: handling, AF, viewfinder, silent AF with manual focus always available, etc. If any of those are high up on your list, then the body you suggested or the lens you suggested could well be worth considering.

As many others here have suggested, look for a lens which doesn't do what your existing lenses do; ultra wide, a fast prime, macro etc. And there's nothing to stop you using EF lenses with your T3i to prepare the way for your intended future FF purchase.

However, this is the crucial factor which it all revolves around:

Before anybody jumps into some sort of comparison you need to share what kind of pictures you take, what are you unable to take and why you are unable to take them with your current gear. There are always pros and cons but your acquisition should be driven by your need to take pictures (or video)...

Look forward to your narration.

5D II | 24-70 II | 70-200 II | 100L | 40 | Sigma 50/1.4 | 40D | 10-22 | 17-55 | 580 EX II | 1.4x TC II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2013, 07:30:52 AM »

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3367
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2013, 08:08:43 AM »
Hi all!
I am new in this forum, I have just registered because I would like to hear your suggestions.

Last year I bought a T3i, together with a EFS 18-55/3,5-5,6  IS II and a EFS 55-250/4-5,6  IS II.
I really like it, and I used it a lot. I use it mainly when I travel, what I do very often due to my work.

I always liked to take photos, but I am not a Pro. Fortunately, this year I could save money to invest in my equipment. I thought I could buy a new camera - first I thought in changing to a full frame, but my budget is not enough. Then I thought I could buy the new 70d, as I could buy the body only and use my EFS lens. My idea is that after some time, I could start buying EF lens (70d supports both EF and EFS) and later on, I could change to a full frame (if I see I will really take advantage of the difference).
I would like to take better quality pictures, and honesty I don't care very much of new features as the built in Wi-Fi. Do you think I will get any difference with a 70D?

But I also thought that I could invest in a new lens instead of a new camera. I read good comments about the EF-S 15-85/3,5-5,6 IS USM. I would have a longer focal length lens, and wider.

I would like to hear from you what would you do - jump to a 70D or invest in this (or other) lens?

thanks!

Leo
The biggest impact you can have is by shooting in RAW and post processing with software like Lightroom...

Going to a 70D will get you a better user interface and greatly improved focus. If you are dealing with fast moving events this will be a great help, if not the difference will be minimal.

A new lens can have a great impact.... But only if you need it. For example, the 70-200F4IS has stellar IQ, fast focus, reasonable weight, and is a joy to use, but if you are looking for a landscape lens it is a poor choice. Likewise, the 10-22 is great for landscapes but if you are looking for wildlife pictures it is a poor choice.

Figuring out needs and priorities should come before new gear.
The best camera is the one in your hands

tron

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1865
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2013, 09:01:42 AM »
If you intend on staying at APS-C format for long and you enjoy travel photography I would suggest a Canon EF-S10-22 (I had one until it was stolen with other gear).

Other choices however acceptable overlap with your existing gear.

CTJohn

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2013, 09:07:51 AM »
Hi all!
I am new in this forum, I have just registered because I would like to hear your suggestions.

Last year I bought a T3i, together with a EFS 18-55/3,5-5,6  IS II and a EFS 55-250/4-5,6  IS II.
I really like it, and I used it a lot. I use it mainly when I travel, what I do very often due to my work.

I always liked to take photos, but I am not a Pro. Fortunately, this year I could save money to invest in my equipment. I thought I could buy a new camera - first I thought in changing to a full frame, but my budget is not enough. Then I thought I could buy the new 70d, as I could buy the body only and use my EFS lens. My idea is that after some time, I could start buying EF lens (70d supports both EF and EFS) and later on, I could change to a full frame (if I see I will really take advantage of the difference).
I would like to take better quality pictures, and honesty I don't care very much of new features as the built in Wi-Fi. Do you think I will get any difference with a 70D?

But I also thought that I could invest in a new lens instead of a new camera. I read good comments about the EF-S 15-85/3,5-5,6 IS USM. I would have a longer focal length lens, and wider.

I would like to hear from you what would you do - jump to a 70D or invest in this (or other) lens?

thanks!

Leo
I had a similar path - started with a T1i and the two lenses you mention.  I decided to spend on glass first - picked up a copy of the EF 24-105L (which is available much cheaper now).  It was a huge upgrade to the 18-55, although not quite as wide.  My next buy was a Sigma 10-20 f/4-5.6.  Then I bought the Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L, followed later by a Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. 

About the time I bought the 70-300, I sold the T1i and bought a 7D.  About a year ago I picked up a 6D and sold my Sigma lens because I now had the wide angle via 24mm full frame.  The Sigma lens was probably the biggest mistake I made in this progression.  I just didn't use ultra wide angle that much.

I now have the above Canon lenses and a 6D and 7D.

My intention was to spend on glass that would work on full frame, because I knew at some point that the price point of full frame would get to the point I'd jump.

I'm and amateur enthusiast, don't shoot every day, and love my current gear.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 09:10:32 AM by CTJohn »
EOS 6D * EOS 7D * EF 24/105 f/4L * EF 70-300 f/4-5.6L * EF 100 f/2.8L Macro * Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3

grey4

  • Power Shot G7X
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • 7D
    • View Profile
    • flickr
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2013, 11:44:41 AM »
I upgraded from a rebel T3 to a 7D a few years back because I knew I needed the AF and Frame Rate for shooting sports.

I'd recommend the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, you'll probably want to get something different then what you already have in regards to aperture, the shallow DOF will give you the boost in quality your looking for. The 85 is my most used lens, you can see some photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/greysatterfield4/

I've also gotten good results out of the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 non VC. It retails new at 500$ which is about half the price of the canon equivalent. It's not a world beater but it's a great value.
7D, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 28mm f/1.8 USM, EF-s 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

preppyak

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2013, 12:08:13 PM »
Before anybody jumps into some sort of comparison you need to share what kind of pictures you take, what are you unable to take and why you are unable to take them with your current gear.
Yep, without this info, every response you've gotten so far won't be very useful. If you are shooting pictures of your kids and family you'd want a very different lens than if you were doing landscape work, or sports shooting.

Likewise, I can't tell if you'd benefit from a camera upgrade without knowing if you shoot action (frame rate and AF would be worth it), or if you shoot a lot of video (70D + STM lenses would be an upgrade).


unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2189
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »
Agree with those that say it depends on what you like to shoot.

My thoughts: if you find that the 18-55 is consistently a little too long at the wide end and little too short at the long end, consider the 15-85 EFS. It's a great, sharp lens and the extra mm at both ends makes it much more versatile for a walk-around lens.

If you find that you need need a faster lens for low light shooting, look at the 17-55 mm 2.8 EF-S. But, understand that you'll be paying a premium for a small gain in aperture.

If you find that the 250 mm on your telephoto just isn't long enough then...well...frankly the only Canon lenses I would recommend would be the 70-300 "L" or the 100-400 "L" but both are expensive and the 100-400 is pretty good sized to be carrying around as  your main telephoto zoom. A good budget solution is the newer Tamron 70-300 VC zoom. It's better and cheaper than the Canon consumer grade IS 70-300 zoom.

While the Tokina 11-16 is a great lens, you really have to like the wide-angle perspective to make either it or the Canon 10-22 zoom worthwhile.

The main limitation with the T3i over the 70D or 7D would be the autofocus. If you find the autofocus of the T3i is causing you to miss shots, then it's probably time to consider an upgrade.

In short, the simplest answer is a question: what do you feel you are missing with your current setup? If you find yourself unable to make the shots you want because of your lenses, look for new lenses. If you find yourself unable to make shots because of your camera, look for a new camera that has the features you need. If you find that your final pictures aren't what you envisioned, then invest in better software.

pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2013, 12:32:23 PM »

m8547

  • Power Shot G7X
  • **
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2013, 02:07:27 PM »
While the Tokina 11-16 is a great lens, you really have to like the wide-angle perspective to make either it or the Canon 10-22 zoom worthwhile.

Wide angle opens up new possibilities. If you look at the most popular camera settings for Reuter's best photos of 2012
http://petapixel.com/2012/12/02/the-most-popular-cameras-and-settings-for-reuters-best-photos-of-the-year-2012/
you will see that 24mm and 16-35mm on full frame are both very popular. Those are equivalent to 15mm and 10-22mm, respectively. The Canon 10-22 might be a bit more versatile, but the Tokina is inexpensive and along with the 18-55 covers most of that range.  You can click through and see what photos are taken with those lenses, and see if you want that look.

DanielW

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2013, 02:30:35 PM »
Figuring out needs and priorities should come before new gear.

In short, the simplest answer is a question: what do you feel you are missing with your current setup? If you find yourself unable to make the shots you want because of your lenses, look for new lenses. If you find yourself unable to make shots because of your camera, look for a new camera that has the features you need. If you find that your final pictures aren't what you envisioned, then invest in better software.

You won't get better pieces of advice than those two.

mwh1964

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 204
  • 5D3
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2013, 06:29:13 PM »
Get a 50mm F1.8 or 1.4 and learn to use these before further money into photo hobby.
5D3 | 16-35L IS | 24-70L II | 24-105L | 70-200L II | 70-300L | 15 fisheye | 35 IS | 40 STM | 50 f1.4 | 100L | B&W Kaesemann | 2 x 600 EX-RT | ST-E3-RT | MR14-EX | EOS M + 22 STM + 90 EX | Manfrotto | Billingham | Lowepro | Think Tank

mkabi

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 338
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2013, 07:03:17 PM »
My advice, buy yourself a new lens.
But before jumping the gun, see the difference between your 18-55mm and a simple 50mm 1.8 II
Canon 7D - EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L, EF - 20mm f/2.8, EF 50mm f/1.4, EF 100mm f/2.0, Custom Cine 50mm & Custom Cine 35mm

WPJ

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2013, 07:19:37 PM »
If your just shooting with kit lenses on a rebel, I would really recommend going for a Sony RX10.  If your traveling around a lot, it's perfect!  No need to change lenses and a constant F/2.8 lens.
Constant f2.8, yes, but due to it's smaller sensor it's not better in low light or DoF options than an f3.5-5.6 lens on APS-C throughout the zoom range. Take a look at this comparison to the 18-135 lens from dpreview:

F8 I don't get your comment.  I have a 7D and I find a huge difference from my 18-200 3.5-5.6 to my 24-105f4 and my 70-200f2.8 dog bokeh you name it can you explain to me Tue graph and your perspective please?

rs

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 670
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2013, 08:05:53 PM »
If your just shooting with kit lenses on a rebel, I would really recommend going for a Sony RX10.  If your traveling around a lot, it's perfect!  No need to change lenses and a constant F/2.8 lens.
Constant f2.8, yes, but due to it's smaller sensor it's not better in low light or DoF options than an f3.5-5.6 lens on APS-C throughout the zoom range. Take a look at this comparison to the 18-135 lens from dpreview:

F8 I don't get your comment.  I have a 7D and I find a huge difference from my 18-200 3.5-5.6 to my 24-105f4 and my 70-200f2.8 dog bokeh you name it can you explain to me Tue graph and your perspective please?
The RX10 has a f2.8 lens, but it's sensor is smaller than a T3i's, so it's not the same as an f2.8 lens on a T3i. It's the equivalent of a theoretical 15-125/4.7 lens on a T3i. That's all.

If you have a selection of lenses to use on one camera, then the sensor size is no longer a variable. Which means there's no need to do any calculations to do any comparisons. So in your case that f2.8 lens is greater than f4, which is in turn greater than f5.6.
5D II | 24-70 II | 70-200 II | 100L | 40 | Sigma 50/1.4 | 40D | 10-22 | 17-55 | 580 EX II | 1.4x TC II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2013, 08:05:53 PM »

WPJ

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2013, 09:10:56 PM »
Gotcha, I thought you were trying to say that on a crop sensor the aperture didn't matter but on full frame it does.  Thanks for the clarification.

tntwit

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
  • Enthusiastic Amateur
    • View Profile
Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2013, 11:36:15 PM »
I also have the T3i.

I went from the original 18-55 (from my 300D) to the 15-85.  Shortly after that, I also bought a 50 1.8.

As noted, you need to look at your needs.

Personally, I love the 15-85 for its range and speed/accuracy of auto focus.  Depending on what and how you shoot, the "you already have the 55-85 range covered" argument may be a bit short sighted.  I also have the 75-300, so a similar argument is you won't miss the 55-75 range, so your covered.  However, for me, the 55 was never quite long enough and I wasn't sure 85 was going to cover it.  I really wanted the 18-135 for the range, but we have that lens at work (not the STM version) and I really don't care for it.  It just never seems quite sharp enough and it just doesn't have a great quality feel to it (this is perception - not necessarily  a practical reality).  Having used the lens for about 9 months now, I am pleased with the range for my type of shooting (but maybe not for yours).

The other consideration is that since getting the 50 1.8, my biggest disappointment with the 15-85 is that it isn't a fast lens.  Take others advice and pick up a fast prime - it really does add a whole new dimension to your arsenal of tools.  I say this because (and this again depends on what you shoot), with slow glass in most lower light settings your going to be as wide open as the lens will go because the other option will be a higher ISO or a slower shutter speed (and you are usually pretty slow to begin with in lower light settings) meaning that adjusting the aperture really isn't an option because you are already maxed out so to speak.  I find that most of my shots are wide open.  With the 1.8 I now have some flexibility that I didn't have before.  The 18-55 lens will be around 5.0 or 5.6 at 50 mm vs 1.8 with this prime.  I think that works out to somewhere around 3 stops.  With this option I now find myself stopping down for a variety of reasons depending on the situation, where I wouldn't have if I was stuck at 5.0 or 5.6.  My favorite feature of this is the OOF background it can produce and because of that alone, I now love this rather cheap lens and really want more fast primes.  I can be an addiction. 

Having said that, it is not easy shooting a narrow depth of field and one reason why the 50 1.8 is so great.  You can practice with one for around $150 and probably get half back later if you decide to upgrade to the 1.4 or better. 

For me, what I've come to realize is the 15-85 is a great lens for most of my general photography and the prime fills in where the fast aperture can be a benefit (usually portraits).  I plan to add a few others (feel free anyone for suggestions - thinking about the 85 1.8 for maybe the Sigma 30 1.4 - trying to figure out what I'll use more) as I think this is the best fit for my needs. 

What I found was, on a crop f2.8 isn't that fast in terms of OOF backgrounds and with the same basic range of the 18-55 I don't think I would have been happy with the 17-55.  I prefer the 15-85 with a few primes. 

Using the 15-85 with the 430EXII is an exceptional package and if you use a flash frequently then an external flash should be another upgrade path to consider.  This combination produce great results for family pictures indoors because the range is ideal, it focuses fast, the flash recycles much faster than the built in and with the ability to bounce off the ceiling, typically more pleasing lighting (this is another art in itself).

One argument I have seen elsewhere, but not here, is to buy the lens for what you are shooting now.  FF lenses don't have an optimized range for crop.  Again it depends on your needs, but for me 24 isn't wide enough (24-70 lens).  The thought here is good glass holds it's value and if you go FF later you can recoup most of it and benefit from the optimized range in the mean time.  Many here think of whatever you do lose as a rental fee of sorts.

And I planned on keeping this response short.  8)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 11:42:03 PM by tntwit »
60D, 15-85 IS, 50 1.8 II, Sigma 10-20, 70-300 IS Non L, 430EX II, Vanguard GH-100, Panasonic GF3, 14-42, 14 f2.5

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Change from T3i to 70d, or invest in a new lens?
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2013, 11:36:15 PM »