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Author Topic: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?  (Read 15831 times)

Don Haines

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »
...shurely a 400mm f4 could be made that isn't that expensive.

As surely as you could use it to take pictures of rainbow-pooping unicorns.  Unfortunately, the laws of physics and the principles of lens design are at odds with your surety.

Neuro... Neuro... Neuro... (shaking my head in disbelief)... It's easy to make a 400F4 at a decent price.... after all, you can get a 800mmF8 mirror lens for $180... they should be able to make a 400F4 mirror lens for close to the same price.....

Now a DECENT 400F4 lens is a bit harder.... Expect the same dimensions and price as a 300F2.8 or a 200F2.0.... and at the low low price of $6000 or more.... Perhaps Tamron or Sigma can come up with a cheaper version that isn't quite so sharp and does not work quite so well at the bargain price of $4000
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 09:54:40 AM by Don Haines »
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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »

Don Haines

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2013, 09:49:16 AM »
Would you mind putting a CR rating to this rumor?

I for one strongly doubt it. The story about shortages in specific items suggesting an upgrade has been used - and denied - many times in the past. If almost nobody buys an item why should the retails keep it in stock?
Edit: In addition, your B&H advertisement shows it in stock (same as Adorama and BuyDig)...

I will bet they sell a lot more of this lens than the 200-400.....

The old 400F5.6 is/was a decent selling lens. I have seen a lot of copies of it in the field, certainly more than the 600F4 or 800F5.6....

There is a market for a long prime under $8000.
I did not say it would be a bad idea. I for one would be seriously tempted.

I said I do not believe this rumor! Plain and simple!

Fair comment, and I'm with you. As much as I would like this lens, I won't believe it until it is officially announced by Canon.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2013, 10:03:01 AM »
I did not say it would be a bad idea. I for one would be seriously tempted.
I said I do not believe this rumor! Plain and simple!

That was my first reaction, and that the 100-400L needs an update more.  But....the 100-400L outsells the 400/5.6 by a wide margin - and the zoom still sells well.  Maybe it makes sense to Canon to release a new 400/5.6 IS prime with substantially better IQ than the 100-400L, inducing current 100-400L owners to buy the prime...then (after a suitable delay) update the 100-400L with IQ almost equal to the new prime.

It's easy to make a 400F4 at a decent price.... after all, you can get a 800mmF8 mirror lens for $180... they should be able to make a 400F4 mirror lens for close to the same price.....

I thought about the mirror lens option, but that's probably even less likely than the aforementioned unicorn.  :P
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tron

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2013, 10:11:34 AM »
I did not say it would be a bad idea. I for one would be seriously tempted.
I said I do not believe this rumor! Plain and simple!

That was my first reaction, and that the 100-400L needs an update more.  But....the 100-400L outsells the 400/5.6 by a wide margin - and the zoom still sells well.  Maybe it makes sense to Canon to release a new 400/5.6 IS prime with substantially better IQ than the 100-400L, inducing current 100-400L owners to buy the prime...then (after a suitable delay) update the 100-400L with IQ almost equal to the new prime.

It's easy to make a 400F4 at a decent price.... after all, you can get a 800mmF8 mirror lens for $180... they should be able to make a 400F4 mirror lens for close to the same price.....

I thought about the mirror lens option, but that's probably even less likely than the aforementioned unicorn.  :P
I believe that we could have a 400mm f/4 at a decent price if its quality was ... non decent  ;D
P.S Only this would be a 3rd party lens (I have omitted the L deliberately)...  ;D

Haydn1971

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 10:15:09 AM »
Rather than a 400mm f5.6 IS or a 100-400mm, what about changing the game with a 200-500mm f4.0-5.6 IS for less than £3000 ?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 10:20:16 AM »
I believe that we could have a 400mm f/4 at a decent price if its quality was ... non decent  ;D
P.S Only this would be a 3rd party lens (I have omitted the L deliberately)...  ;D

We've now got a zoom that goes to 600mm f/6.3 at a decent price.  We'll see how the quality turns out...
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racebit

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 10:28:34 AM »
My 400/5.6 is already IS. I always shoot at 1/1000. In fact it is super advanced IS because it freezes not only my movement but also target movement, whereas your IS only freezes your movement. :)

I am raw guy, I always prefer prime lens without IS: faster AF, better IQ, cheaper, lighter, simpler, less parts to go wrong.

For the more sophisticated guys, it seems to me a zoom 100-400 IS may be better suited.

Regarding price of a 400 f/4, the price of lens is mainly dictated by the diameter of the front lens, that is by the ratio of focal length over f/ratio. So a 400/4 lens costs is near a 300/2.8 or a 600/5.6.
For the price of a 400/5.6 you can get a 300/4 and it would be possible to get a 600/8.

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 10:28:34 AM »

photonius

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2013, 10:36:26 AM »
given that Tokina's new 100-600 - based on the first test pictures showing up - could provide a decent competition.

???

you mean tamrons 150-600mm i guess....

oops, yes, of course.

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2013, 10:37:15 AM »
I did not say it would be a bad idea. I for one would be seriously tempted.
I said I do not believe this rumor! Plain and simple!

That was my first reaction, and that the 100-400L needs an update more.  But....the 100-400L outsells the 400/5.6 by a wide margin - and the zoom still sells well.  Maybe it makes sense to Canon to release a new 400/5.6 IS prime with substantially better IQ than the 100-400L, inducing current 100-400L owners to buy the prime...then (after a suitable delay) update the 100-400L with IQ almost equal to the new prime.

This thought crossed my mind as well.  Canon has to figure out ways to make money after all.  This could be a way.

I for one, hope this rumor is true.  It was be great to see a 400 f/5.6 IS that is optically better.  I bet it would sell even if it is in the ~$2,000 to $2,500 price range.

Regarding the thoughts of the 400 f/4 IS.  I'd be tempted by this lens.  The main problem I see is price point.  Make it close enough to the 400 f/2.8 II that it doesn't hurt the f/2.8 sales and the f/4 likely doesn't sell very well.  Price it in the ~$6,000 range, similar to the 200 f/2 or 300 f/2.8, and it may hurt the 400 f/2.8 II sales. 

I see Canon (over?) populating popular ranges like the 24-70 mm or 70-200.  I am not sure they'd do the same thing with the super teles.  Market may be too small.  Two 300 mm primes and several zooms that end at 300 mm.  Two 400 mm primes and two zooms that end at 400.  One 500 mm, 600 mm and 800 mm prime. One zoom that, with built in extender, ends at 560 mm.  Bigger the market, the more options you get.

Lee Jay

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2013, 10:40:29 AM »
A 100-400L update supercedes the need for a 400/5.6 IS.

neuroanatomist

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2013, 10:58:46 AM »
A 100-400L update supercedes the need for a 400/5.6 IS.

Ahhh, but who's need?  That was my point.  You, me, lots of others want a new 100-400L, more than a 400/5.6 IS.  But from Canon's perspective, the current 100-400L is still a very popular lens, and selling very well.  Their need is to make a profit, the 100-400 is a cash (yen) cow, so why replace it now? 
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photonius

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2013, 11:00:48 AM »
given that Tokina's new 100-600 - based on the first test pictures showing up - could provide a decent competition.
???

you mean tamrons 150-600mm i guess....

How many mm's pales in comparison to quality of optics.

For example, a 70-200F4IS will resolve more detail on a distant object than the Sigma 120-400. I am fairly willing to bet that an updated 400F5.6 will resolve more distant detail than a Tamron 150-600.

I will be first in line to pre-order this lens.....


yup, that's why Canon might have finally some competition to update their lenses, because the Tamron at 600mm might beat the current Canon 100-400 L @ 400 when cropped to correspond to 600.          No side by side tests yet though in this early center test, it doesn't look too bad:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.trinitylumberton.org/category29/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.trinitylumberton.org/category29/%26newwindow%3D1

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2013, 11:18:49 AM »
The "evidence" seems pretty slim and purely circumstantial on this rumor.  On the other hand, as profit margins go, it seems Canon could make a prime cheaper than a zoom, with fewer pieces of glass, and less going on mechanically (no zooming), so their profit margin could be easier to achieve with the prime. 

Also, given the sharpness advantages inherent in the simpler primes vs. the more expensive zooms, they may be able to achieve "decent-ness" (if not heavenly-inspired greatness) in IQ without really having to go all-out with super-expensive means in order to do it.

They may also feel that if they don't, then the others will.  Sigma in particular should give them a little concern given their recent successes and good press, which gives them more "cred" than the Tokinas and Bowers, etc.. Sigma now sort of rivals OEM lenses in their public perception of quality and value.  (at this point, some will disagree loudly)  If the rumors of new Sigma 400, 500 and 600mm lenses are true, or if Canon just thinks they may be true, maybe Canon are feeling the pressure to respond and not simply surrender ground to Sigma by default?
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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2013, 11:18:49 AM »

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2013, 11:43:36 AM »
A 100-400L update supercedes the need for a 400/5.6 IS.

I believe this is what is happening.  The 100-400 is also getting heavily discounted. 

A new 100-400L is just around the corner and will effectively replace both lenses.

tron

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2013, 11:55:30 AM »
A 100-400L update supercedes the need for a 400/5.6 IS.

I believe this is what is happening.  The 100-400 is also getting heavily discounted. 

A new 100-400L is just around the corner and will effectively replace both lenses.
Many lenses are heavily discounted these days. That proves nothing.

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Re: EF 400mm f/5.6L IS on the Way?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2013, 11:55:30 AM »