December 20, 2014, 02:39:34 PM

Author Topic: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?  (Read 6059 times)

Viggo

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600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« on: December 27, 2013, 06:54:27 PM »
Hi guys and a merry christmas to you all!

I got my 600 rt + st-e3 transmitter just before christmas and wanted to ask a question or two.

1. Why is the gel holder open on the sides, the sides undefused and not even covered by the gel? This makes the uncorrected light leak out on the side and turn whatever it hits very blue (I'm using the darker orange gel indoors), plus then it gives very hard shadows to the sides even though my flash is pointed to the roof. I eventually found some black tape (sounds familiar?) and taped all around the top of the holder, except the front, to prevent uncorrected colored light to mess up my shots, what were Canon thinking?? Anyone else experienced this and perhaps solved this?

2. The sensor that tells the flash and camera that a gel is in place only works when the flash is on camera (and superbly might I add), why doesn't this information travel to the camera when used wirelessly?? I mean, the gel is a Canon original, so they now how to correct it, and the flash receives this info, why can't it travel to the camera and set the same wb as when it's mounted on the camera?

Thanks!
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600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« on: December 27, 2013, 06:54:27 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 07:12:13 PM »
1: Because it is a POS with limited functionality, give them another twenty years and they might come up with a MkII. Having said that, after taking all mine out the boxes I quickly put them all back. I have no real use for them as the gels I have used for years do a better job, the OEM ones get knocked off all the time with modifiers and I found they just get in the way.

2: The extremely limited gel aware feature is so constricted it is useless. But I am not adverse to correcting WB at the same time as gelling if that is what I want, it is only a button and dial turn after all, however half the time it isn't what I want so I would only have to override it anyway.

The 600EX-RT's are the best on brand flashes ever made by any camera company, by a long way (and they are cheaper than SB910's too), but they do have a couple of "hmm what were they thinking" moments.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 07:47:53 PM »
Good idea, crappy execution.  My three are packed away, I use Honl gels.
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Jim Saunders

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 08:34:28 PM »
Lots of aftermarket ways to attach gels, and I regard WB as something to be adjusted in post.  I'm into the MagMod holders a little bit, I'll let you know how those work when they arrive in the new year.

Jim
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Viggo

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 04:13:00 AM »
Thanks all! At least I'm not doing it wrong, lol. I think the holder itself was a step up from Velcro hell, and the nice folder for the gels and room for more.

Jim: do you mean to say you brush every area in every picture to match WB? That must take a lot of time! I tried brushing in to fix the ones my flash screwed up but found it both very hard and very time consuming so think I will leave them and write it up as a learning experience.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:14:32 AM by Viggo »
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Viggo

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 12:55:02 PM »
I actually have the Honl system, but the problem is the same with all gels I've seen, they are flimsy and needs replacement quite often.

Is there a gel system with hard plastic or glass gels? And perhaps with the kelvin temp
Written on them, would be a lot easier to match with the camera...

*edit*

Found the MagMod , looks superb but it would be a 150 usd shipped here and taxed..
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 01:45:07 PM by Viggo »
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Jim Saunders

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »

Jim: do you mean to say you brush every area in every picture to match WB? That must take a lot of time! I tried brushing in to fix the ones my flash screwed up but found it both very hard and very time consuming so think I will leave them and write it up as a learning experience.

Oh no, I'll do that if the photo is worth it but what I mean is that if I don't mind if the camera doesn't get data on the gel.  The WB is either going to be acceptable as-is or easily adjusted in post in LR anyway.

Jim
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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »

Viggo

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 05:01:41 PM »

Jim: do you mean to say you brush every area in every picture to match WB? That must take a lot of time! I tried brushing in to fix the ones my flash screwed up but found it both very hard and very time consuming so think I will leave them and write it up as a learning experience.

Oh no, I'll do that if the photo is worth it but what I mean is that if I don't mind if the camera doesn't get data on the gel.  The WB is either going to be acceptable as-is or easily adjusted in post in LR anyway.

Jim

Ah, I see , yeah that I can agree with, only the custom WB is tricky for me being colorblind and using the small screen. And I don't know the color temp of the gel so I have to guess what to set it to in camera. And when I tried auto function with flash on camera it just worked, I really liked that.

How do people usually choose the right gel for a given light, and not just ballpark it?
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Marsu42

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 03:21:45 AM »
1. Why is the gel holder open on the sides, the sides undefused and not even covered by the gel?

I think this is a side effect of moving the gel away from the flash, supposedly to protect it from the heat of a full power flash on overdrive with ages the gel. But it's really not thought through, the worst part is that the gel holder keeps falling off ... or maybe don't really mind :-> since it's a 1ct plastic part sold for $30 ?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847536-REG/Canon_5745B001_SCH_E1_Color_Filter_Holder.html

Ruined

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 11:35:20 PM »
I actually have great experiences with the gel holder.  It has never fallen off for me and helps get pictures that look nice with little post correction needed.

Marsu42

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2014, 02:00:54 AM »
It has never fallen off for me

Sooner or later after some use it will - look at it, the large u-shaped construction that only slightly clips to the flash is bound to widen a bit, it's just plastic after all, and then welcome to the club :-) ... if at all, Canon should have added larger hooks or a locking mechanism at this price class.

Viggo

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 03:48:09 AM »
I actually have great experiences with the gel holder.  It has never fallen off for me and helps get pictures that look nice with little post correction needed.

Test this, Find a white'ish wall>mount the gel in the holder>set correct wb>aim flash forward facing the wall and take a shot(looks great)>turn the flash sideways and take another shot. What you end up with is a large blue spot on the wall because the light leaking out. (this is off camera flash)

And before you suggest I face the flash forward, I often place the flash to light a room and move around shooting, and then suddenly on a shot I have a blue wall to the side and correct wall in front ruining the picture. And it's not just the blue wb that ruins the shot, the light coming out on the side is not light bounced from the ceiling, it's like an on camera flash pointed straight to something, harsh and creating ugly shadows.

Mine also went back in the box and I use the Honl system.
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Ruined

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 11:40:23 AM »
I actually have great experiences with the gel holder.  It has never fallen off for me and helps get pictures that look nice with little post correction needed.

Test this, Find a white'ish wall>mount the gel in the holder>set correct wb>aim flash forward facing the wall and take a shot(looks great)>turn the flash sideways and take another shot. What you end up with is a large blue spot on the wall because the light leaking out. (this is off camera flash)

And before you suggest I face the flash forward, I often place the flash to light a room and move around shooting, and then suddenly on a shot I have a blue wall to the side and correct wall in front ruining the picture. And it's not just the blue wb that ruins the shot, the light coming out on the side is not light bounced from the ceiling, it's like an on camera flash pointed straight to something, harsh and creating ugly shadows.

Mine also went back in the box and I use the Honl system.

In that case, yes, if you have off camera stationary flashes that are not aimed at the target, it will cause a problem.

Although, I would think it would be a fairly simple modification to paint the side outer clear parts of the holder black using a matte rust-o-leum plastic paint for this usage.  Might not be 100% perfect, but should be close.

The main reason Canon went this route is because putting flash gels directly on the flash potentially results in them melting, which obviously destroys the gel and could damage the flash too.  I assume could even be a fire hazard if left unaddressed... so probably also liability concerns.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 11:44:46 AM by Ruined »

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 11:40:23 AM »

Viggo

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2014, 12:32:31 PM »
And that is why I wrote earlier I used black tape to the sides. it even then leaked a little due to the holder isn't flush with the flash head.

I have used my flashes quite hard, and kept a finger on the gel and/or flash head every now and then to make sure it isn't melting, and it's not even kind of warm, so at least for me, melting is a complete non issue. As long as the gel isn't touching the flash head, I'm not worried.
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Ruined

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 02:20:18 PM »
And that is why I wrote earlier I used black tape to the sides. it even then leaked a little due to the holder isn't flush with the flash head.

I have used my flashes quite hard, and kept a finger on the gel and/or flash head every now and then to make sure it isn't melting, and it's not even kind of warm, so at least for me, melting is a complete non issue. As long as the gel isn't touching the flash head, I'm not worried.

Another option might be a black elastic wristband, like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Gamma-Elite-Single-Wrist-Bands/dp/B002MZZETI/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1389122354&sr=8-13&keywords=black+wristband

That would cover the gap entirely and allow you to use the gel reader.

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Re: 600 ex rt GEL holder, seriously?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 02:20:18 PM »