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Author Topic: The New EOS [CR3]  (Read 101518 times)

te4o

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2011, 11:40:09 PM »
I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.
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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #120 on: October 15, 2011, 11:40:09 PM »

Edwin Herdman

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #121 on: October 15, 2011, 11:53:13 PM »
Still not buying this rumor and I think it was a mistake to tie the rumor to the product launch rumor (even if they came packaged together they are two separate things to judge).

I agree with you here. It's a way for Admin (Craig) to prove that the rumor was right even without any solid information.
Well, I don't know that CR Guy intended to prove the rumor, but by posting them together, it allows somebody to take rumors they've heard ("hey, there's gonna be a product announcement") and tie that to some baloney.  Apparently the source is good, though.  However when you have two rumors tied together like that, there's gotta be an opportunity for somebody to intentionally throw in a bad second half, perhaps even to discredit the first rumor or maybe even the site.  Since some people already had their sights on CR, I would be cautious and mentally separate all components of a "single" rumor.

About the karma system...the one rule I always follow is not to give somebody negative karma if they post something directed at me.  I let that get sorted out some other way.  It doesn't seem right to "settle disputes" in that invisible way...for me, the karma system is just a measure of how helpful and 'controversial' a person seems to be, not whether they are good/bad (though if you get too many - marks it does make it harder for people to take you seriously, which is unfortunate).

I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.
Two thoughts:

One, did they say how they were testing the lenses - were they enlarging prints from film, or testing digitally but with professional equipment?

Two, "L" quality isn't just weather sealing, build, and price.  "Sharpness" likewise isn't just how much detail you can resolve in the focus area.  Sharpness is also scene-level contrast:  A lens can have great ability to render details but the whole image takes on a color cast (as if it had the colors turned down and it becomes gray), which is not a good result.  It's also about results throughout the frame - many cheap lenses do not hold up sharpness throughout the frame.  Other things directly impact our perception of sharpness, too; the quality of out-of-focus area blurs and of lens flare is important.  And finally it's harder to get a sharp shot without accurate AF; even if you don't need IS or weather sealing most people would agree you still have to nail the shot.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 11:57:40 PM by Edwin Herdman »

mediobarco

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #122 on: October 16, 2011, 12:06:02 AM »
3 Digit V, 1 of them only for AF. Max fps (12/14) only with the new serie II lenses.

Woody

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #123 on: October 16, 2011, 12:52:51 AM »
3 Digit V, 1 of them only for AF. Max fps (12/14) only with the new serie II lenses.

If the above is true, then that's one way for Canon to keep the current system alive... regardless of how hard people try to sell mirrorless cameras.

keithfullermusic

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #124 on: October 16, 2011, 01:19:43 AM »
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!
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J. McCabe

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #125 on: October 16, 2011, 06:08:08 AM »
My main concern about in Camera GPS is that it does not function well in the reviews I've seen so far, and it eats up batteries. 

I don't object to it, its a good idea, but it would be more attractive if it worked better than what we've seen so far.  The external GPS modules seem to work just fine, but are another item to drag around.

I forgot to add - this needs to be a feature you can turn off.  Sometimes you would prefer not to have images geotagged, and sometimes you do really need the battery life just for shooting.

I do like the way the Nikon one works. It doesn't affect the battery life. It is an attachment and it's cheap.
I think Canon could implement this easily... it is pretty much just recording the GPS location off the attachment, not powering the GPS or doing anything other than recording the lat and long onto the exif, just as it records the time, date, copyright info etc.

AFAIK Canon currently needs the wireless transmitter base to use GPS currently, which is about a grand PLUS the attachment. I may be wrong, but this is what i was told when we were researching our kit and ended up using nikon on that job.

A few random thoughts on the subject of GPS ...

I have one DSLR (granted, not a 1D) for everything, including my vacations. Sometimes, I ask myself where exactly did I take a specific photo, e.g. I know I took it in that restautrant with botanical garden near the border of Texas and Oklahoma, but where *exactly* is that restaurant ? GPS would be really helpful.

If Canon came with an attachment like Nikon's, that would nice, and if it wasn't model specific (read: doesn't need to buy new one when upgrading camera), I would certainly buy one.

Stu_bert

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2011, 06:10:13 AM »
I'm a little confused by the logic of announcing and waiting 5 months before releasing.

If they announce a new 1D on Tuesday, they will sell next to NO 1D stock between now and March, as people will wait.

The lower end Rebel etcs wouldn't have this problem as 1k for a body is a far more disposable amount than 5-8k.

People that will purchase a 1D will know the new one is coming, they will know.

Now if there is limited stock, then that again hurts Canon's sales. Why not announce CLOSER to the release date.

I'd understand if it was a NEW product, like the rumoured EF mount video camera, there is currently no predecessor on sale. So the wait builds the hype.

Helps people plan expenditure, helps avoid migration to a rival product, allows businesses who work on a financial year aligned to the calendar year to have it in the 2012 budget etc.

Take Apple. Everyone knows that once a year a new ipad and iphone is launched. The phone has moved to September but I think that's more to do with iOS 5 than the phone. But that aside, everyone who has a phone, Apple or not, knows when the next one will be available. Great for everyone from a planning perspective. It even helps Apple if I decide to skip a generation, as I know exactly when the next one will be released, so I am likely to stick with them...

Long winded way of saying, although it adds to frustration, most people I think would prefer to know what will be available as it allows them to make decisions. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would be great if we knew all the Canon (1Dx/5Dx/3Dx) models at the same time, oh and also all the Nikon / Sony equivalents  :D
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2011, 06:10:13 AM »

dr croubie

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2011, 06:33:49 AM »
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!

But then where's the fun in that?
If we were willing to wait, this would be called canonfacts.com (or just canon.com), speculating is what we do here for the fun of it.

meanwhile, I reckon CRguy knows more than he's saying, he either knows the specs personally, or knows someone who does, but can't say that it's more than "rumour" for fear of breaking an NDA (read: costly professional suicide)
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Bob Howland

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #128 on: October 16, 2011, 07:03:43 AM »
Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board.

Because this forum is no different from others. Someone will smite you as long as he does not agree with your opinion... regardless of how cordial and polite you are. This implementation of karma simply makes little sense... but oh well.

Go over to DPReview. It's even worse, much worse, there. At least here you can hold a somewhat civil debate.

To all those people who don't like my comments about P&S and Rebel owners, perhaps you would like to stop taking it personally and start looking around to the mass of camera owners who bought their cameras from mass marketeers and really don't know what they are doing. There really are a lot of them. Maybe they have better things to do with their time than sit at their computer and debate some not-yet-existent camera. And, yes, I'm as guilty as anybody.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 07:08:33 AM by Bob Howland »

jouster

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #129 on: October 16, 2011, 07:34:39 AM »
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.

This describes all the Rebel owners I know. It also describes the few owners of 7Ds and, yes, 5DIIs I know. Most people don't give a fig about the sort of things we care about. And you know what? That's fine: if my 5DII owning friend wants to keep her camera on the green square, more power to her. She can afford it, and she gets better image quality than she would have with a Rebel.

Canon has many reasons to want to upgrade their pro line, but money is not one of them. I would be surprised if the 1-Series makes *any* profit as a whole.

Polansky

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #130 on: October 16, 2011, 07:47:41 AM »

Helps people plan expenditure, helps avoid migration to a rival product, allows businesses who work on a financial year aligned to the calendar year to have it in the 2012 budget etc.

Exactly!
I am a professional photographer (living in the Netherlands) and for this fiscal year I already know that I will make quite some profits. If Canon does indeed announce a new camera by tuesday, then I will be able to order this camera. It also then allows me to book this new camera for this years income tax. Even if the camera itself will only come next year.

If I order now, I will lower my profits for this year and that will prevent me from getting into a higher tax scale. Which is exactly what I want to happen. (because who wants to pay too much tax?  8))
So by ordering the camera now I actually make money by spending it.

With that in mind I actually don't care that this new camera will only be available by the beginning of 2012.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 09:06:16 AM by Polansky »

wockawocka

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #131 on: October 16, 2011, 09:02:07 AM »
What Polansky says about Tax is true. If as Pros we have a good year financially then we can buy new equipment and it eats into our taxable profit, reducing the tax we have to pay.

So I would doubt anything later than March because of this.

Speed

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #132 on: October 16, 2011, 10:13:08 AM »
21mpx on a full frame or 21mpx on a 1.6 crop?
There is a huge difference.   21mpx on a 1.6 crop sensor amounts to about 54 mpx on a full frame sensor (21*1.6*1.6).


Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #132 on: October 16, 2011, 10:13:08 AM »

keithfullermusic

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #133 on: October 16, 2011, 01:08:42 PM »
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!

But then where's the fun in that?
If we were willing to wait, this would be called canonfacts.com (or just canon.com), speculating is what we do here for the fun of it.

meanwhile, I reckon CRguy knows more than he's saying, he either knows the specs personally, or knows someone who does, but can't say that it's more than "rumour" for fear of breaking an NDA (read: costly professional suicide)

I apologize, I should have stressed that there shouldn't be angry arguing.

Also, I'm not sure that he knows anything that he's not saying. I don't think canon people would tell anyone the deal, especially I guy who started a website to disperse rumors!
5Diii - 50D - 100mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.2 vii - 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, 20mm f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8 vii - 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, 430 EX II, YN560, YN568, Bowen's 500R's
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #134 on: October 16, 2011, 01:35:57 PM »
I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.

Most lens reviewers (all??) do not have the necessary equipment to test the resolution of a lens.  They put it on a camera body and come up with a figure thats good for that body only.

The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

The problem in talking about resolution is that you also need to know about abberations, CA's, its a extremely complex subject which is often simplified by discussing center resolution, where even a $120 50mm f/1.8 is very good.

You can buy a very high resolution lens and  still get lousy quality images that are distorted, have CA, flare, abd other issues.

Lens manufacturers have to balance all of these properties and trade off one versus the other.  Thats why the L lenses cost so much, along with Zeiss, Leica, or many other expensive lenses, they are very difficult to manufacture.

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #134 on: October 16, 2011, 01:35:57 PM »