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Author Topic: The New EOS [CR3]  (Read 101291 times)

Doodah

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #150 on: October 16, 2011, 11:08:15 PM »

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)

This has been brought up gazillion times before in different places. But for unknown reasons, it has failed to gain widespread acceptance. :)

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #150 on: October 16, 2011, 11:08:15 PM »

Doodah

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #151 on: October 16, 2011, 11:10:02 PM »

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1.

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4.  The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down.  For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

Thanks for the info. Always curious about this. :)

Doodah

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #152 on: October 16, 2011, 11:13:56 PM »
I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

If what you say is true, I am most DEFINITELY getting one. A mirrorless fullframe that eliminates the heavy weight from the pentaprism is at the top of my want list. That's just me though... :)

Excited to see what Canon has to show tomorrow
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 11:31:52 PM by Doodah »

Meh

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #153 on: October 16, 2011, 11:30:47 PM »
Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H.   A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

In fact, just prior to reading this post, that's what I suggested in the thread on irony.

I haven't been keeping up with reading the posts for a couple of days and as I scanned through all the posts speculating as to why these specs don't make sense it occurred to me that there were a couple of themes... a) resolution is a step back from 1Ds and b) spatial resolution is a step back from 1D4 both of which ring true.  On the assumption the rumour and spec list is not a complete fabrication what 1 change (Occam's Razor) would resolve both issues.  APS-H would do the trick... if so, this spec list fits nicely for a 1D5.

Now that I think about more... a lot of the recent talk on the forum has been that APS-H would be discontinued to the point it may have become assumed to be true so the rumour source and all the comments just assumed it must be FF.

Let's say a new APS-H sensor, even at 18MP, has even better DR, lower noise, and better low-light performance that the 1D4 or 5D2... would it be the perfect sports, wildlife, AND wedding photographer's camera?  16MP maybe wasn't enough for wedding photos but 18MP is closer to the 21MP of the 5D2.

If anything I'm speculating makes sense, this spec list now appeals to a wider market so if Canon could sell it for say $4200 (instead of $5k for the 1D4) would it become the easy choice for working pros over a 5D3... that way Canon can increase the resolution to 30+ MP but keep the AF performance, etc. of 5D3 down to differentiate it and keep it positioned as a landscape, portrait, entry level studio.

Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 12:17:12 AM by Meh »

dr croubie

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2011, 12:38:35 AM »
Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???
Short answer, No.
Technically, Canon can release a Medium Format camera tomorrow.
But, and the big butt, is that they'd have to release a completely new line of lenses as well, only the TS-E line would have an image-circle big enough for the bigger sensor. But also, the flange distance would have to be longer than the 44.00mm of the EF line, to accommodate the bigger mirror.
(and there's other things, like the size of the mirror would reduce frame-rates, 2-3fps would be 'fast', megapixels would have to be in the 60-80MP range to compete with current Leaf, PhaseOne, Pentax, and Hasselblad backs, yada yada).

It can happen, I wish it would. But it wouldn't be called EOS, it wouldn't be called 1D(s), and it wouldn't take EF (which is fine if it is *as well* as the 1Ds4, but if MF *replaces* the 1Ds3, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off pros with lots of glass to replace).

I'm definitely thinking more and more that tomorrow will be just a 'boring' 1Dmk5 18MP APS-H @ 14fps upgrade.
But I'm still hoping for an 18*3 FF Foveon-type, which is the only acceptable way to merge the 1D-1Ds while reducing FF res and pixel density. (only other acceptable way to merge 1D-1Ds is to have a 30+MP FF which crops to 16+MP APS-H for faster fps, but i doubt that's coming tomorrow)
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Haydn1971

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #155 on: October 17, 2011, 12:55:40 AM »
Cheers Dr Crouble, I had in my mind that MF could be the way forward, but as you explain, the mechanics just wouldn't work the the EF system.  Although, that's not to say MF couldn't happen, it would "just" need a mew lens system !

I kinda like the idea of a digital back system for the 1D/5D ranges, a standard body with a complementary set of digital backs that can be swapped out, fast/low 18 MPx, medium speed 25-30MPx, slow 40+MPx, with AF to suit each.
Regards, Haydn

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Old Shooter

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2011, 01:29:56 AM »
It's fascinating to consider digital MF.  I still remember my first photography class in 1974; you shot MF for quality and 35mm for cost/convenience.  However, it seems that the FF sensor capabilities have yet to peak.  Many good images come from the 18MP 7D sensor; yet that same pixel density would yield a 46MP FF.  It would seem that as technology advances, and FF resolution nears some theoretical/practical maximum, purists seeking the ultimate IQ would venture off toward MF...

Just some random thoughts to pass the time; waiting for Tuesday's announcement like everyone else... :P
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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2011, 01:29:56 AM »

Orion

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #157 on: October 17, 2011, 01:43:34 AM »
I was searching for any current news or snippets abou the possible 1D mkV . . . . funny how a fake add from 2009 came so close to the announcement on Tuesday, while the post even mentions the amalgamation of the 1D line:

http://forums.mycanikon.com/showthread.php?1704-Canon-1D-MKV


(my apologies if this has come up before, etc)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 01:54:37 AM by Orion »

Old Shooter

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #158 on: October 17, 2011, 02:46:15 AM »
 :o  Wow!  A fake ad from 2009?  Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!
5DIII, XSi, A2, 10s (x2), 20-35L, 24-70L II, 28-70L, 70-200L, 70-200L IS II, 85L II, 135L, 40 Pancake, 50 Macro, 100 Macro, 135 Soft-Focus, Crappy EF-S Kit Lens, 430EX II, Metz 45 CL-4, Metz 60 CT-4 (x2), White Lightnings, and lots of other junk...

dr croubie

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #159 on: October 17, 2011, 02:49:01 AM »
:o  Wow!  A fake ad from 2009?  Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!

They should have hired a spell checker too...  ::)
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cezargalang

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #160 on: October 17, 2011, 03:07:07 AM »
ISO 12 (L2) and ISO 50 (L1). So funny

DarkKnightNine

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #161 on: October 17, 2011, 04:33:44 AM »
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I've have played with the camera on my new iPhone 4S and it sucks, but I think it's because I got a phone with a bad lens defect or a bad sensor. I get this blue banding in the highlights across all of my images. Taking it back tomorrow. As for the image quality, it's good considering it's camera on a phone but can't begin to touch the IQ of my Canon 1D Mark IV.
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wockawocka

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2011, 05:04:37 AM »
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I've have played with the camera on my new iPhone 4S and it sucks, but I think it's because I got a phone with a bad lens defect or a bad sensor. I get this blue banding in the highlights across all of my images. Taking it back tomorrow. As for the image quality, it's good considering it's camera on a phone but can't begin to touch the IQ of my Canon 1D Mark IV.

It's the low iso banding of the 4S that really brings it down.

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2011, 05:04:37 AM »

DarkKnightNine

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #163 on: October 17, 2011, 05:20:53 AM »
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

So how is 12 FPS and 61 AF points "less useful" for sports? 

Sports photographers (Pros) use their 1D MK IV cameras along with their 400mm f/2.8 lenses. 

All of a sudden, they will need a 520mm f/2.8 lens to get the same field of view, or crop to a 10MP image rather than the 16mp image they now have once again to get the same field of view.

I'd say that would be less useful for them.

I disagree. Although I'm mainly a fashion/portrait photographer, I occasionally shoot sporting events (like K-1 in Japan), concerts and fashion shows. The benefits of having a FF sensor at a fast frame rate outweigh any loss in focal length do to cropping. FF means greater low light performance via higher ISO with less noise; Higher ISO with less noise means I can push my shutter speeds higher and get a far greater percentage of pictures sharp and in focus. Couple that with 10-12fps and I think any action shooter will tell you that's heaven. If the rumored specs are correct, this is the perfect camera for me and I would sell my two 1D Mark IVs and get two of these cameras. Anything higher than 18MP is just icing on the cake.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

tjshot

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2011, 05:23:05 AM »

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)


This has been brought up gazillion times before in different places. But for unknown reasons, it has failed to gain widespread acceptance. :)

In the following post:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,1902.0.html

 I've proposed a few simulation scenarios that may give the hint on effective performance difference of full frame cameras with 36 Mpxls and 50 Mpxls (same ESOU 7D pitch on full frame).
Results may be interesting as with a very good Prime (think Canon 85mm F 1.8 ) the 36 Mpxls would outperform actual 21 Mpxls one, after proper sharpening, by a  + 10-15 lpm margin at every stop.
With a  50 Mpxls sensor difference would be + 20-25 lpm while dynamic range/noise would still be manageable (think of Canon EOD 7D)
 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 05:25:29 AM by tjshot »

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #164 on: October 17, 2011, 05:23:05 AM »