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Author Topic: The New EOS [CR3]  (Read 57421 times)

Bob Howland

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2011, 08:49:17 AM »
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4 - if you then attach these 2 bad boys to a beautiful 18mp+ sensored DSLR ;D I will poo all over my chair right now !!!! Noise is the one plague I want out of my images , and 18 megapixel is more than enough for any publications I or most anyone submits too - I can crop half of the 18mp image and still have enough resolution for full page print , Canon bring it on , but BRING IT NOW !!!!!! I'm ready for my new muscle !!!!! ;)

Noise in an image comes from the amount of energy pumped through the sensor. The only point at which the Digic processor reduces noise is if you use it to reduce noise (and soften the image as a consequence).

Only an improvement in the sensor will improve the level of noise.
So the sensor is the only source of noise in an image, the amplifiers and A-to-D converter can't introduce additional noise? Are these components separate from the Digic or are they part of it?

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2011, 08:49:17 AM »

Gothmoth

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2011, 08:57:18 AM »
there can be all kind of other noise sources.. but the sensor noise is the basic.


iaind

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2011, 09:12:56 AM »
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.

The Singapore Ad gives that impression but it might be a teaser for an additional body. Roll on Tuesday.

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NotABunny

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2011, 09:25:43 AM »
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.

Hehe, the voice of wisdom. If they are going to announce a camera with 5 months in advance, they might as well announce all of them (planned cameras).

Woody

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2011, 09:44:55 AM »
So the sensor is the only source of noise in an image, the amplifiers and A-to-D converter can't introduce additional noise? Are these components separate from the Digic or are they part of it?

I am inclined to think DIGIC is a jpeg processor. It only affects jpeg output.

While amplifiers and A-D converters most certainly affect sensor performance (Canon's Archille's heel is their sensor electronics introduces way too much noise at low ISO, which then translates into limited dynamic range... as compared to Sony sensors), they are not part of DIGIC.

Orangutan

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2011, 09:46:37 AM »
there can be all kind of other noise sources..

I think the "rumor mill" is our primary source of noise right now.   :D


No, really, it's funny how people keep looking at this like a Rorschach test, seeing exactly what they want to see.  Instead, look at it from the business perspective, not the aficionado perspective:

  • The 5D2 damped 1Ds3 sales, which means that high IQ is more important than build for that segment, though some still need the build.  How many former 1Ds3 buyers bought two 5D2's?  A question will then pass through an executive's mind: how much more would folks pay for the 5D3 before they start losing sales.  I.e., what's the "sweet spot" of (higher margin) x (lower volume).  My guess is that it's somewhere between $3K and $3.5K.
  • Reasonable success of 1D4, even compared to 5D2 and 7D, means there's still a profit to be had.
  • The 7D has been very successful, so it will be continued.

If I'm a Canon marketing exec, I'm going to re-structure my entire line around my cash cow, the 5D3, as follows:

  • 5D3 will be high res, high IQ, studio, landscape, wedding camera.  It will have improved build quality, but not 1D-level.  Optional "armor" might be sold for it to accommodate trips to Antarctica.  Whether it has improved (7D-type) AF or vastly improved video (i.e. no rolling shutter) will depend on whether they intend to offer a new top-of-the-line camera...ever.  They can't make this decision until competitors release their products (RED, Nikon D800).  That's why we won't see the 5D3 or possible 1Ds for a month or two, at earliest.  I doubt the 5D3 specs have been finalized, but it's probably narrowed down to two or three possibilities now.
  • 7D2 will be the reasonable evolutionary advance from the 7D, and will likely announce after the Nikon D400.
  • (*EDIT*) It's possible that the 1D5 will be the new video standard-bearer, and the 5D3 will not get a revolutionary video upgrade. 
  • New 1Ds?  Depends on the competition, and whether Canon thinks there's enough market.  If so, it will be over-the-moon tech to separate it from the 5D3, and have an over-the-moon price.  Don't bet on it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 10:25:55 AM by Orangutan »

Bob Howland

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2011, 10:35:23 AM »
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.

I disagree, i think a lot of REBEL owners know about the 1d series. Look at this forum and the signatures on the bottom. A lot of the regular posters here have Rebels. I don't drive a ferrari but i know a lot about them.

And I drive a Honda Fit and also know a lot about Ferraris (and even more about Porsches), but I'm quite sure that, to most Fit owners, Ferrari and Porsche are just names, at best. I can't count the number of times I've explained why my DSLR is better than their P&S or that, no, it's not that camera that's impressive, it's the 300 f/2.8 lens mounted on the front of it.

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2011, 10:35:23 AM »

notacoach

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2011, 10:36:00 AM »
Based on rumours this past year, how about this:

New 1d = pro (largely sport/speed) market. Larger form factor.
New 3d (or 5dIII)= high end/pro studio/landscape FF, crazy high ISO quality, larger form factor, video for pro use.
5dIII (or 3d or 9d) = routine upgrade to 5dII (with special attention to improved AF with more points, and inclusion of flash commander) but overall pretty much as-is. Relatively affordable, small-form FF.
7d = pretty much as-is. Top of the line crop, but still relatively affordable pro-useable, sports/all-rounder
XXd = more than entry level, but without the pro features - consumer all-rounder.
Rebels = entry level.

Maybe 3d and 5dIII specs reversed (if only to keep "name recognition" of the 5d for video), with 3d being the relatively affordable FF, and the 5dIII staying the pro FF/video camera.  Or even a 9d being introduced as a relatively affordable FF (pure speculation based on Canon numbering traditions)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 10:39:22 AM by notacoach »

Mark D5 TEAM II

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2011, 10:39:15 AM »
Lulz. Slightly OT, from the CR FB page:

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macfly

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2011, 10:55:30 AM »
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

Bob Howland

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2011, 11:04:07 AM »
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

Wild Guess: Part of the announcement will be that the EOS lens mount specification will be changed by adding pins and functionality to make it friendlier to video lenses.

markds

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2011, 11:27:27 AM »
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

Totally agree. The advert gives it away (there appears to be a letter after the D, probably an s). There are three possibilities:

1: A new 1DV
2: A new 1DsIV
3: An entirely new addition to the 1 series.

My best guess would be a 1DsIV, which either means the 18mp rumour is nonsense, or it's a foveonesque sensor.  Remember a while back there were rumours about a 54mp Canon? Well, 18mp * red * blue * green = 54. I doubt it though - that would be too good to be true!

There have also been hints at a mirrorless FF (see user 3434343434343, who made two posts):
http://www.43rumors.com/olympus-45mm-in-stock-silver-and-black-panasonic-45-175mm-in-us-and-europe-and-superdeal-in-uk/#comments
Post#1: canon will announce a FF mirrorless next thursday… keep my word in mind!! you heard it here first… from a guy who works for zeiss germany.
Post#2: no details i am 100% sure about…. i just got it from a friend who works for canon and is under NDA. but 18 october will send out quite a shockwave.

It may be BS of course!!!

However, the 25th aniversary would indicate something high-end will be announced.

neuroanatomist

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2011, 11:28:33 AM »
Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I have...and it's pretty sweet.  I gave it the 'quick my kid's doing something cute' test (pick up from table, turn on camera, aim, focus, capture), and it's just slightly slower than my PowerShot S95 (approximately 6 seconds for the iPhone 4S, 5 seconds for the S95).  Focusing is pretty quick, and the touchscreen makes selecting a subject easy (assuming you don't want to use the face(s) automatically selected by the iPhone). 
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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2011, 11:28:33 AM »


SlothLovesChunk

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2011, 12:35:13 PM »
Doesn't anyone else notice the inherent problem with calling a camera "3D" unless it shoots...3D?
Seems that's already a longstanding moniker that would confuse the hell out of people. We ought to find another name for our imaginary cameras...there are plenty of digits available...2D,4D,6D,8D,9D, eleventy billionD, etc.

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Re: The New EOS [CR3]
« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2011, 12:35:13 PM »