November 25, 2014, 08:00:18 PM

Author Topic: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?  (Read 9805 times)

9VIII

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2014, 12:51:49 PM »
I really think the 500f4 is the ultimate "middle class" big white.
Does that make my 300 f/2.8 IS II low class?  If so, it sure didn't feel that way when I paid my AMEX bill that month.  I'm just kidding, but I've never heard the big whites discussed in terms of class :)

I'm just thinking about how the 400f2.8, 600f4, and 800f5.6 all seem to fit into roughly the same size and price category.
The 200-400+1.4xTC probably fits in there too, but just for the price.
I just did some cost/mm calculations though, and they do all end up roughly the same. Though the US dealers seem to set all big whites on the same cost/mm as the 300f2.8 bare, where Canadian dealers put the 500mm+ lenses closer to the cost/mm of the 300f2.8 with a 1.4x TC (including price of TC).
I think the difference may be in part due to MAP policies between the two Canon distributors. We've seen B&H give discounts when asked, though it's hard to say how close they would come to price matching.
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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2014, 12:51:49 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2014, 01:03:42 PM »
Would that lens bought "up north", still have a US warranty? Is the warranty for North America in general, or is it specifically for CA or US, etc?

I'm pretty sure the warranty is for North America and both Canada and the USA are covered.
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Rienzphotoz

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2014, 04:38:25 AM »
There's already five pretty decent lenses covering that focal length: the f/2.8L IS II, the f/4 DO IS, the f/5.6L, the 100–400mm f/4.5–5.6L IS, and the 200–400mm f/4L IS. Of these lenses, there are three that offer f/4 IS and thus another one would be serious competition for them all.

There are 11 pretty decent EF lenses covering the 200mm focal length, and of those there are four that offer f/4 IS.  I don't think Canon is too converned with multiple lenses covering a given focal length.  Generally, more choices are a good thing - as long as Canon sets a price that provides a return on investment for a given number of units sold, it's a win. 

It's also worth noting that two of those three lenses that provide 400mm f/4 IS are quite new, and deliver substantially better optical performance than the 400/4 DO.  Given that, there is quite likely a market for a 400mm f/4 IS lens that delivers optical performance on par with the recent MkII supertele lenses as a price that's around that of the current 400/4 DO, i.e. $4K cheaper than the 400/2.8 II or 200-400/4+1.4x.
+1 ... I'd add that there'd be many hobbyists who'd want to buy a 400 f/5.6 L IS version, coz not everyone can afford $6000+ for a 400mm prime lens ... but I bet there would be a lot of people willing to buy a 400mm f/5.6 IS lens at around $2000 to $2500, besides the people who are willing to buy the $6000, 400mm f/4 lenses will continue to buy them regardless of a f/5.6 at a much lower price.
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King Eyre

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2014, 05:44:24 AM »
I'd take issue with anyone who says the 400 DO isn't as sharp as other more recent lenses.
I use one with a 1DX and 1.4 and 2X TC and have some really excellent results...the only thing I'd say is it needs a wee tweak in PP on the contrast front.....and it can be picked up very reasonably second hand.

As I'm getting a bit long in the tooth (!!) I find the weight (or lack of it) with the DO is a very considerable advantage.....and I use it a lot even although I also have a 300 2.8 mk2.

I suspect a lot of people who criticise the 400 DO haven't actually used it...!!

George.

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2014, 05:53:47 AM »
I'd take issue with anyone who says the 400 DO isn't as sharp as other more recent lenses.
I use one with a 1DX and 1.4 and 2X TC and have some really excellent results...the only thing I'd say is it needs a wee tweak in PP on the contrast front.....and it can be picked up very reasonably second hand.

As I'm getting a bit long in the tooth (!!) I find the weight (or lack of it) with the DO is a very considerable advantage.....and I use it a lot even although I also have a 300 2.8 mk2.

I suspect a lot of people who criticise the 400 DO haven't actually used it...!!

George.
Just looked up the weight of EF 400mm f/4 DO IS lens and was surprised to see that it weighs same as the Sigma 150-500 OS lens ... that's quite impressive.
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King Eyre

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2014, 06:03:07 AM »
Well I'm hoping to borrow a 200-400 +T/C next month (March) to take to Tanzania and Kenya on safari, will be interested to try it but it's a really heavy beast and that's fine when you are shooting from a vehicle but I certainly couldn't use it hand held for more than a couple of minutes!!

I think, although I can't prove it, the a/f system on the 1 Dx is also helping the performance of the 400 DO.

Be interesting if any other DO fans are backing me up!!!....

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2014, 12:20:56 PM »
Thanks everyone for commenting. I've "convinced" myself that I "need" to get a 400mm f/4L IS for myself and so will be buying the 200-400mm f/4L IS later this March. I've given up my earlier plans (for now) for the 300 f/2.8L II and the 600 f/4L II in favour of the zoom. Versatility first and the speciality lens can follow later. 

I'd consider the DO lens but am just not convinced with it given that I cannot even try one in my country (nobody I know has this lens and it hopelessly out of stock with the Canon stores here).

Cheers ... J.R.
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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2014, 12:20:56 PM »

King Eyre

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2014, 12:41:37 PM »
Thanks everyone for commenting. I've "convinced" myself that I "need" to get a 400mm f/4L IS for myself and so will be buying the 200-400mm f/4L IS later this March. I've given up my earlier plans (for now) for the 300 f/2.8L II and the 600 f/4L II in favour of the zoom. Versatility first and the speciality lens can follow later. 

I'd consider the DO lens but am just not convinced with it given that I cannot even try one in my country (nobody I know has this lens and it hopelessly out of stock with the Canon stores here).

Cheers ... J.R.

That's a real shame you can't try one, I don't know why Canon don't push it more!!
Well I'm sure you'll love the 200-560 f4-5.6 (which is what it really is...!!) but I hope you aren't planning to carry it a long way!!

Don't know where you are geographically, I've lent mine to a few guys in Scotland and they've al bought them!!

King Eyre

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2014, 12:44:43 PM »
Another thought....can't you speak to your local CPS guy???usually they will help.

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2014, 12:48:51 PM »

That's a real shame you can't try one, I don't know why Canon don't push it more!!
Well I'm sure you'll love the 200-560 f4-5.6 (which is what it really is...!!) but I hope you aren't planning to carry it a long way!!

Don't know where you are geographically, I've lent mine to a few guys in Scotland and they've al bought them!!

I plan to carry it in my car for the long hauls and thereafter with a tripod (with gimbal) / monopod. That said, I think I need to hit the gym and work on my upper body, I might be able to use it handheld for more than a couple of minutes ;D

I'm based in India and the DO lenses are seldom seen here (at least I haven't seen any).
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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2014, 12:51:36 PM »
Another thought....can't you speak to your local CPS guy???usually they will help.

I have my doubts with the abilities of CPS in India but nevertheless, I'll try that and see what gives ... Maybe they can loan me one!

Thanks ... J.R.
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King Eyre

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2014, 12:59:11 PM »


I have my doubts with the abilities of CPS in India but nevertheless, I'll try that and see what gives ... Maybe they can loan me one!

Thanks ... J.R.
[/quote]

Well mine will be in Bandhavgarh in 18 months, it had an outing there a couple of years ago and was excellent!!

George

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2014, 04:12:57 AM »
I'm not sure about how much it would/should cost.

Triplicating the price of the 400/5.6 makes it around $5-6K even when factoring the "new product" price premium. That's about the same price of the DO version. As a reference, the price of the now 10-yo 70-300 DO IS USM is pretty much the same as the much newer 70-300 L.

At this price, a 400/4 could seriously harm the sales of its $10K bigger brothers. That could be one reason why Canon doesn't market one.

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2014, 04:12:57 AM »

NancyP

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2014, 12:22:39 PM »
I'd say that the new 500mm f/4L IS II is in the middle WEIGHT class, at 3.2 kg / 7 #. My beloved 400mm f/5.6L is a bantam weight (I have held it with one hand when shooting close to zenith and using the other hand to balance myself). The 800mm f/5.6L is in the heavy weight class, at ~4.5 kb / 9.9#.

Loren E

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2014, 02:00:07 AM »
I'd take issue with anyone who says the 400 DO isn't as sharp as other more recent lenses.
I use one with a 1DX and 1.4 and 2X TC and have some really excellent results...the only thing I'd say is it needs a wee tweak in PP on the contrast front.....and it can be picked up very reasonably second hand.

George.

Hey George, I am loving my 400 DO with 1.4 TCII. I want to get a 2x TC to use with it on my 5DmkIII. Which version of the 2x TC are you using? I am hoping I can get good results with the version II since this lens won't benefit from the chip in the version III anyways. Best -L

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Re: Why no 400mm f/4L IS exists?
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2014, 02:00:07 AM »