December 19, 2014, 01:29:49 PM

Author Topic: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography  (Read 5079 times)

AlanF

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70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« on: January 07, 2014, 09:56:03 AM »
My 5DIII is out of action while being repaired and so I have reverted to my old 7D. I am one of those hiker/bird photographers who uses the 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III combination at 600mm for its relative lightness. The 7D autofocusses quite quickly with most lenses in general under all conditions. It is a bit slow with the 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III for well-defined targets and fails for diffuse ones and hunts badly. Out of frustration, I tested a 70D in a shop with the 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III and it was fine. The 70D is reputed to be less noisy than the 7D and slightly sharper (DxO tests give the figures).  So I bought one.

Here is a brief review.

1. Most importantly, despite being described as having the same AF system as the 7D, the 70D works very well with the 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTC III combo and appears to have a more consistent and faster AF. So, the over-riding consideration for me is fulfilled.

2. I prefer the screen and toggle switch of the 7D as I use the camera as a digital telescope in the field for identifying birds. But, the swivel touch screen of the 70D does have advantages.

3. The 70D lacks the spot focus of the 7D - it just has the "open square" in the viewfinder.

4. The weather here has been atrocious so field trials have been difficult. My impressions are that the 70D is indeed sharper than 7D at the extremes of resolution.

As there are so many variables under field conditions, I conducted a test under controlled conditions. I took a very sharp close-up of a kingfisher with my 5DIII in the summer and had a large size print made. So, I used the print as a target. I used the 300mm f/2.8 II without the TC for testing as it is so sharp and will not be the limiting factor in resolution at the distances used indoors. The lens was AFMAd using FoCal on both bodies prior to use.

This target photo had been taken at iso 1250, 1/320s and f/5.6 at 600mm on the 5DIII.


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70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« on: January 07, 2014, 09:56:03 AM »

AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 10:00:12 AM »
The first set of tests were taken in lowish light and somewhat under exposed. These conditions do tend to emphasize the noise, which is useful for comparison.

The first are 70D above, 7D below, both at f/2.8, iso 320 and 1/160s. The 70D is less noisy. The sharpness is pretty similar, but judge for yourself.

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AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 10:01:44 AM »
The next are at iso 640 and 1/320 s.
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AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 10:03:16 AM »
Finally, at iso 1250 and 1/640 s. The superiority of the 70D noise is more obvious.
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AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 10:08:33 AM »
Later on, the sun came out and brightened the room, with dramatic effects on the noise.

At iso160 and 1/3200 s exposure at f/2.8, there is very little noise and the auto exposure was better. The photos of the print are approaching the quality of the original jpeg from the 5DIII.

I should have mentioned that 7D and 70D images are jpegs from RAW with no noise reduction or sharpening, but the original 5DIII image was cleaned up.
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AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 10:13:27 AM »
Finally, for the 70D at iso 320, 1/4000 s and f/2.8 (top) and iso 1250, 1/4000 s and f/5.6, the noise levels are still excellent. In bright light, the 70D is not noisy. The same number of photons are hitting the sensor to the noise must be sensor noise, not photons. The quality of the images are excellent, compared with the original.
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AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 10:18:40 AM »
You need to download the images to analyse them. My 7D does tend to under-expose and you can see it relative to the 70D.

My take on all of this is that the 70D is superior for my purposes to the 7D. It focusses better, faster and more consistently. I think it is sharper. The noise levels are better. It is a great camera by itself and I think that in good light it will have genuinely longer reach than the 5DIII. The live view focussing is simply awesome.
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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 10:18:40 AM »

Grant Atkinson

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 12:55:59 PM »
Hi there Alan F

I am new to this forum but not new to Canon dslrs and wildlife photography.  I have also just completed a comparison of the two cameras, 70D and 7D.  My experiences were similar to yours in that I found the 70D to have better image quality all around, and focus at least as well, if not with a little more stability, especially when long lenses are used.  I owned a couple of 7D bodies for over a year and have been using the 70D in the field for the last two months.  Here is the link to my comparison:http://www.grantatkinson.com/blog/canon-eos-70d-and-canon-eos-7d-compared

Thanks for posting your kingfisher image, it is a good one
Grant

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 01:15:53 PM »
Thanks for the review.  I have been in a love/hate relationship with my 7d for several years now. When everything works as it should, it's great. But it's so unforgiving and inconsistent with telephoto lenses. And, IMHO, even the sky and water in ISO 100 shots look noisy.

You need good light to get the best of it, which IMHO defeats the entire purpose of being a good wildlife camera. Most wildlife is out and about when the light is low, or darting into forests with uneven light.

I'd classify the 7D as a zoo camera, portrait and sports camera, and would not recommend it for wildlife shooting except for afternoons. The images are just too sludgy when not in perfect light.

AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2014, 02:13:42 PM »
Hi there Alan F

I am new to this forum but not new to Canon dslrs and wildlife photography.  I have also just completed a comparison of the two cameras, 70D and 7D.  My experiences were similar to yours in that I found the 70D to have better image quality all around, and focus at least as well, if not with a little more stability, especially when long lenses are used.  I owned a couple of 7D bodies for over a year and have been using the 70D in the field for the last two months.  Here is the link to my comparison:http://www.grantatkinson.com/blog/canon-eos-70d-and-canon-eos-7d-compared

Thanks for posting your kingfisher image, it is a good one
Grant

Grant
Yours is one of the best reviews I have ever seen. Thanks so much for the link. Where my modest contribution overlaps with yours, there is complete agreement, even to the 7D's relative degree of under-exposure. I also learned a few tricks from you.

Welcome to the forum!
Alan
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mackguyver

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2014, 02:26:29 PM »
Grant,  welcome to CR.  I found your site some time ago when I was researching the 300 2.8 IS II and found your insights on it and all of the other gear you've reviewed really helpful.  I really like your work, particularly the lion shots, and I'm glad to see you posting here.

AlanF

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 02:31:14 PM »

Btw (hint, hint :-) ... unless shooting jpeg only use full iso stops, iso 320 is really iso 400 underexposed, iso 640 is iso 800 underexposed, you gain nothing by this but only lose dynamic range.

This often crops up. iso 160, 320, 640 and 1250 are local minima in the jagged profile of noise vs iso for the 5DIII and 7D. Other isos might give you better DR. For what I am doing, I prefer lower noise.
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mackguyver

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 02:40:39 PM »

Btw (hint, hint :-) ... unless shooting jpeg only use full iso stops, iso 320 is really iso 400 underexposed, iso 640 is iso 800 underexposed, you gain nothing by this but only lose dynamic range.

This often crops up. iso 160, 320, 640 and 1250 are local minima in the jagged profile of noise vs iso for the 5DIII and 7D. Other isos might give you better DR. For what I am doing, I prefer lower noise.
Alan, not to wade into this, but I don't think those ISOs make any difference in noise when shooting RAW, but do affect DR.  I haven't tested this, but I think Marsu is correct in saying that they only reduce noise for JPEG shooting.  If I have time, I'll try to do some tests with DxO (PRIME) and Adobe ACR at some point to test this theory.  I don't have any Victorian bricks, but I'll see what I can do :)

Those are interesting insights into the 70D vs. 7D.  It seems like the build quality, viewfinder, and burst rate are the only reasons to choose the 7D and probably aren't significant enough to make a big difference.

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 02:40:39 PM »

Grant Atkinson

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2014, 02:44:10 PM »
Thanks for the welcome here Alan F, and Mackguyver,
I have followed along here and there the relevant posts on CR forum for a while now just viewing, but thought I would join in.  Forums like this are good places to learn, confirm and share especially  :)
Alan, I was a little surprized to find the exposure difference between the 7D and 70D, so much so that I actually went back and re-took all my indoor comparison shots.
Thanks again for the welcome
cheers
Grant

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 02:59:34 PM »
Alan, thanks for posting these results!

Btw (hint, hint :-) ... unless shooting jpeg only use full iso stops, iso 320 is really iso 400 underexposed, iso 640 is iso 800 underexposed, you gain nothing by this but only lose dynamic range.

Do you have data to support that assertion?  You didn't respond previously

Btw (hint, hint), Bill Claff's data suggest that you're wrong, and that using ISO 160-320-640 gives less noise (as AlanF indicates) and also more DR than the 1/3-stop higher full stop increments of ISO 200-400-800.

As I stated in the other thread, it seems that from a noise as well as a DR standpoint, you're better off using multiples of ISO 160 than ISO 100 (unless you're using a 1D X, which has smooth noise and DR curves, unlike the jagged ones of other recent Canon sensors).

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Re: 70D vs 7D - preliminary review for bird photography
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 02:59:34 PM »