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Author Topic: Where are Canons innovation?  (Read 23925 times)

Sporgon

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 04:44:37 PM »
If the OP feels that Sony's innovations are inviting then he should move to Sony. After all this is why Sony are producing these cameras; they want people to buy them. Just don't mention lens innovations.

For myself, the most recent Canon innovation is the 6D sensor. Excellent dynamic range coupled with film-like tonal graduation and astonishing high ISO performance. Quite extraordinary.

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 04:44:37 PM »

Drizzt321

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 04:44:50 PM »
Canon can get away with it as they are at the top of the heap. They might as well just watch Sony muck around with the mirrorless stuff until they get it right enough, then jump in.

I might be a bit more charitable in phrasing it, but I sort of agree. I think both Nikon and Canon are content to slow walk their entry into mirrorless and let others spend the money to do their market research for them. They are both 800 pound gorillas and if the market looks profitable, they can pretty well come in and crush everyone else simply on the strength of their brands.

You mean kinda like what Apple likes to do? Most of what they've done in the past decade (leaving aside OS X) has been to wait until others get the basic technology up to a certain level and push out a bunch of different options that may be, mostly, lackluster but have a few good ideas here and there. Then re-package them in a better form, add some great industrial design, and make it seem hip, cool, and never been done before.

Granted, I don't think Nikon/Canon will make much of anything like a hip/cool must have accessory, but the mirrorless has taken a while to actually really start making quality stuff that's catching up with some features that the standard DSLRs have had and done well for a long time.
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Kit.

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 06:00:15 PM »
Canon makes cameras. You use them to take pictures. How much innovation do you need? Will it make you a better photographer?
And phones are for making calls, what do you need an iPhone for??
I personally don't.

I prefer phones that are better for making calls than an iPhone.

And, if you are not interested in the camera technology, why are you even at this site? A rumor site!!
For the rumors about the lenses (duh!).

I might be interested in the new 100-400. Not sure about the 12[14]-24; I'm pretty satisfied with my TS-E 17 for what I need from a wide angle lens.

Don Haines

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 06:36:06 PM »
And, if you are not interested in the camera technology, why are you even at this site? A rumor site!!
For the rumors about the lenses (duh!).
I would be willing to bet that a lot (most?) of the people on this site have more invested in lenses than in camera bodies....
The best camera is the one in your hands

AE1Pguy

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 07:05:52 PM »
If the OP feels that Sony's innovations are inviting then he should move to Sony. After all this is why Sony are producing these cameras; they want people to buy them. Just don't mention lens innovations.

For myself, the most recent Canon innovation is the 6D sensor. Excellent dynamic range coupled with film-like tonal graduation and astonishing high ISO performance. Quite extraordinary.

Yeah, I was counseled by a well-known photo publisher not to buy a new Canon, because they had lost their ability to keep up. But I just couldn't stomach ditching my huge lens investment, so I picked up a 6D with a 24-105 (and a Sigma DP2M - another underappreciated camera).

They say the 6D AF stinks and the sensor is yesterday's news. Ok. Whatever. It's a drastic leap forward from my 40D. I can make enormous prints with terrific color, at absurdly high ISO. And I didn't have to sell a car to buy a whole new set of lenses. I'll sell enough shots to more than recover my expenses quickly.

garyknrd

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 07:16:20 PM »
And, if you are not interested in the camera technology, why are you even at this site? A rumor site!!
For the rumors about the lenses (duh!).
I would be willing to bet that a lot (most?) of the people on this site have more invested in lenses than in camera bodies....

Yep, and the best in the world for what I like... Can't wait to see this years offerings.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:19:16 PM by garyknrd »
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surapon

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »
And, if you are not interested in the camera technology, why are you even at this site? A rumor site!!
For the rumors about the lenses (duh!).
I would be willing to bet that a lot (most?) of the people on this site have more invested in lenses than in camera bodies....


+ 1000 for me too, Sir, Dear Mr. Haines.
" I would be willing to bet that a lot (most?) of the people on this site have more invested in lenses than in camera bodies "
Yes, I , my self will buy the good/ great Camera 21 in every 3-4 years, BUT, I will buy Great Lenses 1-3 Per Year.
Good night, Sir.
Surapon

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »

Vincent_F

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2014, 08:16:12 PM »
I was just wondering about where Canons innovation has gone? Sure, they put a touch screen on a dslr, but that is not really innovative. We´ve had this on smart phones for a long time (yes, they are caneras as well), but that is about it. WiFi? They have offered WiFi for a long time as well, but as an add on feature. Integrating it is more of an evolution, the same as with the touch screen.

I can't actually believe that there is a post on that subject: are you all mad or just ignorant? To refresh your minds, you might want to have a look at these links:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/cinema_eos/cameras.do 
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/lenses/EF200_400mm_f_4L_IS_USM_EXTENDER_1_4x.do
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_70d_technology.do
http://www.canon.com/news/2013/sep12e.html

The last technology will soon be integrated in their 1D camera series - talking about innovation - that is innovation being able to see/shot and focus at 0.01 lux!

Even if I have a 1D X and a 1D Mk IV, I still use my 1D Mk III because it can take great pictures; you don't discard such cameras like if they were phones or laptops!

Artifex

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2014, 09:00:49 PM »
If the OP feels that Sony's innovations are inviting then he should move to Sony. After all this is why Sony are producing these cameras; they want people to buy them. Just don't mention lens innovations.

For myself, the most recent Canon innovation is the 6D sensor. Excellent dynamic range coupled with film-like tonal graduation and astonishing high ISO performance. Quite extraordinary.

I totally agree with you. For me, as a MF shooter who started on film SLR and loved it, the 6D is a bit of a dream come true once the stock focussing screen is replaced. As you stated, the tonal graduation is lovely and the high ISO performance is ridiculously good. However, there is something that impresses a lot that isn't much discussed; the look of the high ISO noise. Unlike the 550D or the 7D, the noise doesn't actually look like "noise", but makes me more think of film grain. Even at 6400-12 800, where it starts being heavy, I actually don't find it ugly; it resemble the grain added in post in film shoot on digitals cameras more than "regular" noise.
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Ewinter

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2014, 09:34:33 PM »
Who needs innovation when you can just stick with a good thing. Like having native lens options above 210mm...Well, seems like canon win that one. And RT flashes. And the best fast primes on the market....

I've got a sony A7, it's stunning, but funnily enough, I don't use it with sony lenses.

davidson

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2014, 09:45:16 PM »
i find that when a lot of people talk about innovation, they dont actually mean innovation. they mean features they can brag about or toys and "gimmicks" they can play with , that dont actually much real value to the product. they gripe that company X doesnt have an innovative feature that company Y has. but if company X did what company Y did then its not innovation is it??

sanj

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2014, 11:01:50 PM »
Canon makes cameras. You use them to take pictures. How much innovation do you need? Will it make you a better photographer?

And phones are for making calls, what do you need an iPhone for?? And, if you are not interested in the camera technology, why are you even at this site? A rumor site!!

I am not here to start a fight, it was just a question. A question that popped at the moment I tried the NEX-6. It seemed lightyears ahead of my 550D (apart from AF). Using the same 18mpx sensor in a trillion cameramodels kind of exemplifies what my point is. As I said, perhaps "innovative" is the wrong word... Could Boring be more correct?

Agree. But innovation is mandatory for all companies. Do not intend to start a fight either. :)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 11:19:20 PM »
But innovation is mandatory for all companies.

Certainly, at least for tech companies.  But the point of the OP's thread was that Canon isn't innovating.  Fastest frame rate in a dSLR.  Most cross-type AF points with the widest spacing. Smallest dSLR. Supertele lenses that are >25% lighter than their predecessors.  Dual pixel AF. 

The issue isn't Canon not innovating, it's that people define innovation as developing only those products/features they personally want.  I don't shoot video with a dSLR and when I'm using Live View, I'm not in a rush.  By the logic of many people bashing Canon for not innovating, I should not call dual pixel AF an innovation, because it doesn't benefit me.  But it is innovative, as even the OP has acknowledged.
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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 11:19:20 PM »

jrista

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2014, 11:45:36 PM »
I was just wondering about where Canons innovation has gone? Sure, they put a touch screen on a dslr, but that is not really innovative. We´ve had this on smart phones for a long time (yes, they are caneras as well), but that is about it. WiFi? They have offered WiFi for a long time as well, but as an add on feature. Integrating it is more of an evolution, the same as with the touch screen.

The reason I ask this question, "where are the innovation" is because I recently bought my wife a Sony NEX-6, anf my poor 550D looked really really ancient next to it!! Dont get me wrong, I do enjoy shooting my canon, and I have solid lenses, but it really was a huge gap between the Canon and the Sony.

I do think that Canon produces very good, solid performing cameras, no doubt. The 5D3 and the 1DX really dont have true competition. They are not the best at everything, but as a whole, perhaps the best tools avaliable for the professionals. However, I´m not a professional, though quite enthustiastic :)
Where is Canons equivalent to the Sony A7/R or the Nikon DF? Where is the downloadable apps for the Camera, motion sensors etc.? The EOS M? Never tried it, but from what I understand, a good, solid performer (after the FW update), but not very innovative.

The thing is, the people at Canon are not stupid, I am sure they have all the technology in the world to make super innovative cameras (yes, even fix the DR-problem that really isn´t a problem), but why dont they show us, or just give us some hints? Where are Canon at the CES?

I am not the type that want the latest and greatest technology at the moment it is released. But, I am gonna upgrade my equipment in a couple of years. Hopefully I can stick to Canon and not feel I´m buying an old relic.

First off, check patent filings. Canon innovated almost 3200 times last year. Thats a lot of innovation, and from a patent count standpoint, Canon actually innovated more than Sony, and a hell of a lot more than Nikon.

Second, adding a touch screen to a camera could be considered innovative. They did not innovate touch screens, but they have produced some innovative ways of accessing and managing camera settings and configuration.

Third, are you seriously forgetting all the innovations Canon has included in their most recent cameras? The 1D X alone is PACKED with innovation, several in the AF system, several more in their metering system, the way their meter and AF system is linked with a dedicated processor is innovative, they innovated with their new shutter and mirror assembly that broke the 12fps barrier, they innovated Dual Pixel AF.

Don't forget, photography is as much about the lens as it is about the sensor and the camera. Canon has even more innovations packed into their newest lenses, and they have a whole host of additional lens releases slated for 2014.

I think your being naive if you think that simply responding to your competitors is innovative. On the contrary, being a copy-cat "me too!" company is actually about the farthest thing from innovative as you can get. Nikon is actually not a very innovative company. Nikon is a company of alliances...they ally themselves with counterbodies like Sony, then buy and sometimes share their own technology in order to produce a product. Nikon does not have a cohesive approach to producing cameras...just look at their camera model naming scheme, and the only thing you'll see is schizophrenia. Nikon camera names are chaotic, confusing, and even potentially conflicting. Nikon, since they don't innovate critical technology, has some extra time to produce fancy little tidbits such as 24karat gold plated cameras, the Nikon Df, and a whole host of other random, one-off, and frequently quirky little devices that...for a SHORT time...make fans rave, but over the long run do NOTHING to make them a better company.

Canon, on the other hand, is most assuredly innovative. Canon, given their track record, doesn't give a flying rat's ass about "the competition." Canon rarely produces cameras that "directly" compete with anything their primary competition has to offer...which is why we don't often see things like a Canon SomethingD with 36mp, or a full frame mirrorless to "directly compete with" the Sony A7r. We probably WON'T see such things either. Canon is not a copycat "me too!" company. They are an innovative company. Canon, as it stands, is actually a company that really seems to listen to their customers, is diligent about filtering the noise from the critical customer demands, careful and conservative in their development, testing, and refinement of their products, and will deliver when they believe they have found a product that TRULY answers THEIR, CANON'S, CUSTOMER DEMANDS. Whatever Canon releases in the coming years, I highly doubt anything but the 1D X will have any "direct" competition from either Sony or Nikon. Whatever Canon releases, it will rather pointedly service Canon customer needs.

Canon hasn't stopped innovating. They just aren't rushing. (Oh, and they have no reason to "hype" by dropping pointless little rumorbombs all over the place to get peoples hopes up about technology that isn't ready yet.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 11:50:53 PM by jrista »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2014, 02:20:21 AM »


Canon hasn't stopped innovating. They just aren't rushing. (Oh, and they have no reason to "hype" by dropping pointless little rumorbombs all over the place to get peoples hopes up about technology that isn't ready yet.)

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Re: Where are Canons innovation?
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2014, 02:20:21 AM »