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Author Topic: The irony in it all  (Read 3357 times)

kirispupis

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The irony in it all
« on: October 16, 2011, 05:46:37 PM »
Just thought I would share a rather humorous thought.

For the last several years, Canon users have been lamenting Canon’s pursuit of more MP.  While Canon users have been grudgingly happy with their cameras + lenses, there has always been a bit of yearning when confronted with the high ISO capabilities of cameras like the D3s – why can’t Canon come out with a camera like that?

Meanwhile, Nikon users have been generally happy with their cameras but I have heard a bit of grumbling that it’s about time Nikon come out with a camera with more than 12 MP that costs less than $8,000.

So Nikon is now rumored to come out with a 36 MP D800.  From what I have seen, many Nikon users are furious – that this camera simply has too many MP and low light performance and disk storage space will suffer.

In turn, Canon is now rumored to come out with an 18 MP camera that exceeds the D3s in most ways everyone cares – better high ISO, more fps, 50% more MP, and better AF.  The general feedback from the Canon crowd is this is the worst decision Canon has ever made.  18 MP is simply too few for a next generation sports camera.

Of course, these are just rumors and neither camera is guaranteed to actually surface (though in Canon’s case we’ll know soon).  It just really seems like camera manufacturers can’t win…
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The irony in it all
« on: October 16, 2011, 05:46:37 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 08:54:04 PM »
A 18mp FF sports camera is 50% more MP than the Nikon 12mp sports camera (D3).  If it can have a super low light performance and fast FPS, then its going to sell.  Sports and BIF photographers need low light capability due to the fast shutter speeds and frequent night photography.  It would not be a general purpose camera just like the Nikon D800 with 36mp and 4 fps is not a sports camera.  Many people are trying to drive a square peg into a round hole and confusing themselves and others by comparing them.

I'll be waiting to see what appears, and, if it looks good, a order will go out day one.  If not, I'll wait. 

kirispupis

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 09:38:43 PM »
If this camera is really a FF 1D5 (successor to 1D4) then I would agree.  However if it truly combines the 1D + 1Ds lines then IMHO it is missing something (a more MP/slower frame rate mode).

If this camera comes out, I will likely put a preorder in the first day. I currently own a 5D2 + 7D and have always longed for something with the low light capabilities of the 5D2 with the frame rate and fps of the 7D.  This camera would basically give me that and more.  I would probably keep my 7D around though for situations where I really need the crop.

However, IMHO given these specs the camera should not list for more than $6k. If they ship an 18 MP camera for $8k then there is no way I'll buy it unless there is something else.

Personally, I have my doubts whether this rumor is true at all.  CR is the only one out there right now saying this camera is coming out. For such a big camera release it is quite shocking that no detailed specs have been released yet.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 09:49:44 PM »
If this camera comes out, I will likely put a preorder in the first day. I currently own a 5D2 + 7D and have always longed for something with the low light capabilities of the 5D2 with the frame rate and fps of the 7D.  This camera would basically give me that and more.  I would probably keep my 7D around though for situations where I really need the crop.

Agreed.  The rumored camera would replace my 5DII, and I'd keep the 7D.  I'll add that I'm mostly looking for better AF than the 5DII offers.

I'm going to agree/hope this comes in at $6K (mostly because conveniently, that's the amount of cash I've got on hand, waiting for either a new body, or to keep growing for a 500L II).
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 10:00:21 PM »
If this camera is really a FF 1D5 (successor to 1D4) then I would agree.  However if it truly combines the 1D + 1Ds lines then IMHO it is missing something (a more MP/slower frame rate mode).

If this camera comes out, I will likely put a preorder in the first day. I currently own a 5D2 + 7D and have always longed for something with the low light capabilities of the 5D2 with the frame rate and fps of the 7D.  This camera would basically give me that and more.  I would probably keep my 7D around though for situations where I really need the crop.

However, IMHO given these specs the camera should not list for more than $6k. If they ship an 18 MP camera for $8k then there is no way I'll buy it unless there is something else.

Personally, I have my doubts whether this rumor is true at all.  CR is the only one out there right now saying this camera is coming out. For such a big camera release it is quite shocking that no detailed specs have been released yet.

I don't believe for a minute that it will replace the 1Ds series of high MP studio cameras.  I would see such a camera as a replacement for the 1D camera.  I believe that there is a error in translation somehow.   

Canon is not going to leave the D800 / D3X all alone as high MP cameras, they will have something that is similar.  There will still be a sports body and a studio body IMHO.


neuroanatomist

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 10:17:29 PM »
I still have big trouble seeing this as a 1D IV replacement. It's too soon, and the MP are to low to make up for the loss of the 1.3x crop.  I think it's possible (likely?) that there will be an announcement on Tuesday (did I mention that's my birthday?  :D ).  But I don't really buy the specs. I think to replace the 1D IV, it will keep the APS-H (in which case, I won't buy it), or the rumored MP count is just plain wrong. Or this will be a 6D for video.  If Canon is really going to amalgamate the 1D and 1Ds, this isn't the way, IMO.
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rocketdesigner

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 10:46:54 PM »
Or this will be a 6D for video.

I don't know if I have missed this posted elsewhere ... but if - in fact - it is going to be their "flagship" and has only 18mp, does this not mean that Canon is clearly interested in pushing video to the forefront of their product line?

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 10:46:54 PM »

Zuuyi

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 11:25:26 PM »
I for one disagree with the specs stated. 

1. There is Zero chance the replacement of the 1Ds will have 16-18MP it will have 30+ MP (my guess 40MP).
2. It makes little sense to combine the 1D & 1Ds; two different types of Pros with different needs.
3. The 1D will not go FF; that means sports photographers would have to change their lenses. That means they would have to carry bigger, heavier, and more expensive lenses to get the new camera; to make up for the lose of the APS-H crop factor.
4. The 5D3 will have more than 25MP (my guess 30MP) and there is no way the 5D3 will have more MPs then the 1Ds.

I will be proven correct in 36 hours.  Then I get to go back to waiting on the 5D3 or 6D like all other Prosumers.


Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 11:29:03 PM »
I still have big trouble seeing this as a 1D IV replacement. It's too soon, and the MP are to low to make up for the loss of the 1.3x crop.  I think it's possible (likely?) that there will be an announcement on Tuesday (did I mention that's my birthday?  :D ).  But I don't really buy the specs. I think to replace the 1D IV, it will keep the APS-H (in which case, I won't buy it), or the rumored MP count is just plain wrong. Or this will be a 6D for video.  If Canon is really going to amalgamate the 1D and 1Ds, this isn't the way, IMO.

I can agree with that, I have wondered if this is a low cost 7D equivalent for FF users.

You will have to order one for your birthday present and post some unboxing photos when it arrives.  If it is priced right and promises a big jump in low light sensitivity, I'll bite.  Its close enough to my 5D MK II so that I know I can do some cropping, but I am doubtful of seeing a breakthru in ISO sensitivity, perhaps a backlit sensor?  Supposedly they do not benefit FF very much, but it could be a bigger breakthru than thought.  I remember all the suprised responses with the CMOS FF sensor.

kirispupis

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 11:54:34 PM »
There are a number of things rather fishy with this announcement.

  • Why would they replace the 1D4 so soon?
  • Why would they combine the 1D + 1Ds lines with an 18 MP camera?
  • If they are slowing production of the 1D4 to produce 1D5s, then why do we have to wait until March to get one?
  • Why do we not have any more concrete specs just a day before launch?

Personally I would prefer no new camera to be released as I have been saving earnestly for the 200-400/1.4x.  If this camera does come out though, it would be too tempting to pick one up.  Given the choice between taking awesome pictures of birds and taking awesome pictures of my kids playing in low light, the decision has to be in favor of my kids.  If no camera is announced, however, I will happily put in a preorder for the 200-400 and pick up the 5D3 whenever it finally comes out.

One prediction I do believe though is that late Monday night/Tuesday morning one of two things will happen.  Either a camera will come out with the specs CR mentions or no DSLR will be announced at all.  I do not believe we will see some camera with different specs.

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Meh

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 12:38:02 AM »
There are a number of things rather fishy with this announcement.

  • Why would they replace the 1D4 so soon?
  • Why would they combine the 1D + 1Ds lines with an 18 MP camera?

It has been 2 years... not the usual 3 years but it's not like the 1D4 was just released.   Given the performance of the Sony sensors, some technology advances have been achieved and Canon may have their own advances that are ready.  DIGIC5 is also already in production so they may have incentive to stop producing DIGIC4, if so I think we'll see most if not all the DSLRs replaced soon.

"Combining the 1 series" could also mean they're just not going to produce a 1Ds anymore only 1D... possibly Canon will move into MF as the flagship high (40+MP) camera.

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 01:43:15 AM »
I for one disagree with the specs stated. 

1. There is Zero chance the replacement of the 1Ds will have 16-18MP it will have 30+ MP (my guess 40MP).
2. It makes little sense to combine the 1D & 1Ds; two different types of Pros with different needs.
3. The 1D will not go FF; that means sports photographers would have to change their lenses. That means they would have to carry bigger, heavier, and more expensive lenses to get the new camera; to make up for the lose of the APS-H crop factor.
4. The 5D3 will have more than 25MP (my guess 30MP) and there is no way the 5D3 will have more MPs then the 1Ds.

I will be proven correct in 36 hours.  Then I get to go back to waiting on the 5D3 or 6D like all other Prosumers.

Pretty adamant about the specs there...... work for Canon or what?  Kinda tired of hearing the complaint about having to use longer lenses because no crop factor w/ FF.  Everyone wants the benefits of FF, but when it comes close to maybe happening everyone complains they have to carry bigger more expensive lenses...blah...blah..blah.  There was no crop factors in the film days and no one complained.  Personally I'd welcome this FF camera if it comes out.  The pros of FF outweigh the one con of having to revert back to not working with crop factors. 

Zuuyi

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 02:44:13 AM »
I for one disagree with the specs stated. 

1. There is Zero chance the replacement of the 1Ds will have 16-18MP it will have 30+ MP (my guess 40MP).
2. It makes little sense to combine the 1D & 1Ds; two different types of Pros with different needs.
3. The 1D will not go FF; that means sports photographers would have to change their lenses. That means they would have to carry bigger, heavier, and more expensive lenses to get the new camera; to make up for the lose of the APS-H crop factor.
4. The 5D3 will have more than 25MP (my guess 30MP) and there is no way the 5D3 will have more MPs then the 1Ds.

I will be proven correct in 36 hours.  Then I get to go back to waiting on the 5D3 or 6D like all other Prosumers.

Pretty adamant about the specs there...... work for Canon or what?  Kinda tired of hearing the complaint about having to use longer lenses because no crop factor w/ FF.  Everyone wants the benefits of FF, but when it comes close to maybe happening everyone complains they have to carry bigger more expensive lenses...blah...blah..blah.  There was no crop factors in the film days and no one complained.  Personally I'd welcome this FF camera if it comes out.  The pros of FF outweigh the one con of having to revert back to not working with crop factors. 

Nope I don't work for Canon. If I did I wouldn't be posting it here.

With the crop factor vs. full frame.  Not a sports photographer so not really important to me; just my opinion.  I don't see it going Full Frame. But it is possible; it will just force a lot of sports photographers to either buy new glass or pass on the upgrade.  I guess for those in this class it's just a business expense.

With the 1Ds; why would Canon drop the Megapixels on their top camera.  It might not get to 30MP+  but it just seems dumb to drop MP to the level of a rebel.  I know MP aren't everything but to drop MP level just seems odd.  The 1D could be 16-18mp but not the 1Ds.

I'm personally waiting on a 5d3 or 6d; only reason I'm waiting on the 1D/1Ds releases is to know what's coming down the pipeline.

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 02:44:13 AM »

Old Shooter

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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 04:36:15 AM »
I don't believe for a minute that it will replace the 1Ds series of high MP studio cameras.  I would see such a camera as a replacement for the 1D camera.  I believe that there is a error in translation somehow.   

Canon is not going to leave the D800 / D3X all alone as high MP cameras, they will have something that is similar.  There will still be a sports body and a studio body IMHO.

I couldn't agree more!

I don't know if I have missed this posted elsewhere ... but if - in fact - it is going to be their "flagship" and has only 18mp, does this not mean that Canon is clearly interested in pushing video to the forefront of their product line?

I guess it comes down to everyone's different viewpoint of "flagship"...  I always look at the top-of-the-line, highest-dollar model, and to me that is a company's flagship.  For years that has been the 1Ds.  I guess others, seeking speed and ISO, view the 1D series as the flagship.  You could see in the other thread the 1Ds users/fans lamenting and the 1D users rejoicing...

I'm personally waiting on a 5d3 or 6d; only reason I'm waiting on the 1D/1Ds releases is to know what's coming down the pipeline.

Exactly!  My next Canon will be a FF; now it's just wait-and-see while the new models get introduced and the technology trickles down through the line-up...
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Re: The irony in it all
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 04:36:15 AM »