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Author Topic: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]  (Read 125250 times)

CarlTN

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #210 on: January 24, 2014, 03:17:33 PM »

Quote from: jrista

This is the most advanced imaging device I know of:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/test-and-measurement/superconducting-video-camera-sees-the-universe-in-living-color


Thanks, I liked reading this.  A bit troubling that the galaxy on the left does not have a remotely resolved "nucleus" when compared to the Hubble image, but perhaps some of that is due to an unfiltered capture of a broader spectrum of light (where the Hubble's is meant to only portray visible light)??

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #210 on: January 24, 2014, 03:17:33 PM »

jrista

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #211 on: January 24, 2014, 09:49:33 PM »

Quote from: jrista

This is the most advanced imaging device I know of:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/test-and-measurement/superconducting-video-camera-sees-the-universe-in-living-color


Thanks, I liked reading this.  A bit troubling that the galaxy on the left does not have a remotely resolved "nucleus" when compared to the Hubble image, but perhaps some of that is due to an unfiltered capture of a broader spectrum of light (where the Hubble's is meant to only portray visible light)??

Remember, the test sensor only has 2024 pixels. The Hubble image is taken with a 15 megapixel sensor. BIIIG Difference. Once this kind of technology finds its way into megapixel sensors, you'll be able to tell the difference.

CarlTN

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #212 on: January 25, 2014, 02:13:51 AM »

Quote from: jrista

This is the most advanced imaging device I know of:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/test-and-measurement/superconducting-video-camera-sees-the-universe-in-living-color


Thanks, I liked reading this.  A bit troubling that the galaxy on the left does not have a remotely resolved "nucleus" when compared to the Hubble image, but perhaps some of that is due to an unfiltered capture of a broader spectrum of light (where the Hubble's is meant to only portray visible light)??

Remember, the test sensor only has 2024 pixels. The Hubble image is taken with a 15 megapixel sensor. BIIIG Difference. Once this kind of technology finds its way into megapixel sensors, you'll be able to tell the difference.

Well, unless the image was scaled up and smoothed (a lot), it does seem like it should have resolved at least a bit of the "nucleus"...because it does reveal more of the detail in the galaxy to the right (you can even see the warm colored portion along the edge).  That's why I thought it might be due to the Hubble image only portraying visible light, where the other image portrayed full spectrum light.  Infrared light could possibly be filling in the "void" that is defining the "nucleus" in the Hubble image.

MovingViolations

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2014, 03:13:31 AM »
Canon may not have anything to answer to. The D4S may be just a fix for the D4 rather than ground breaking technology. I'd still go for a 1DX MII this fall. I'm not getting any younger and patience  is not one of my virtues.  :(
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jrista

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #214 on: January 25, 2014, 03:27:25 AM »

Quote from: jrista

This is the most advanced imaging device I know of:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/test-and-measurement/superconducting-video-camera-sees-the-universe-in-living-color


Thanks, I liked reading this.  A bit troubling that the galaxy on the left does not have a remotely resolved "nucleus" when compared to the Hubble image, but perhaps some of that is due to an unfiltered capture of a broader spectrum of light (where the Hubble's is meant to only portray visible light)??

Remember, the test sensor only has 2024 pixels. The Hubble image is taken with a 15 megapixel sensor. BIIIG Difference. Once this kind of technology finds its way into megapixel sensors, you'll be able to tell the difference.

Well, unless the image was scaled up and smoothed (a lot), it does seem like it should have resolved at least a bit of the "nucleus"...because it does reveal more of the detail in the galaxy to the right (you can even see the warm colored portion along the edge).  That's why I thought it might be due to the Hubble image only portraying visible light, where the other image portrayed full spectrum light.  Infrared light could possibly be filling in the "void" that is defining the "nucleus" in the Hubble image.

In the article, the image WAS scaled up, a LOT. The original image was 44x46 pixels, the image in the article is probably eight to ten times that large.

SiliconVoid

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2014, 04:11:38 AM »
Quote
Don't expect "eventually" to be tomorrow, though. The big name DSLR cameras are the high end ones. They don't sell as much as the Canon Rebels and Nikon Dxxxx models, but they are usually where significant leaps in larger format technologies are made. We already had major new DSLRs released over the last couple of years, and major new mirrorless cameras just over the last year. It'll be a couple years at least before we see any significant innovations trickle down to the DSLR and Mirrorless arena.


I gave some extreme examples sure, but my point is still quantified. The primary difference in our expression is verbiage that attempts to assert knowledge and understanding of physics... (no offense, just an observation)
I work for a medical equipment manufacturer specializing in imaging technology, and if no comparison were made beyond the technology we work with I can assure you that consumer digital imaging products are not implementing the latest imaging technology. If one were to then compare other industries that develop and implement imaging technology outside the realm of consumer photography products, dslrs might as well have a little chimp inside with a tablet and chisel... The physical size of a $2.5billion device has little to do with researching the concepts of that technology for other applications, especially when the $2.5billion device contains many more elements than the digital sensor, and provides ample room for design and implementation to meet other criteria such as serviceability and maintenance - not how small the packaging could be.
However if you are prepared to offer higher megapixels, improved noise algorithms, marginally improved read noise, and the absence of a mirror (all within the concepts of traditional sensor design) as examples of 'new technology' then we have little to discuss given the discrepancy in perspective and definition.



This if funny as hell btw: Fstoppers Nikon DF Digital Camera Hipster Review
Fstoppers Nikon DF Digital Camera Hipster Review
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 04:18:24 AM by SiliconVoid »
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Arctic Photo

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2014, 04:14:31 AM »
Yepp. I think the Nikon D4s is no catch for the 1Dx, it's just closing the gap. It's just newer, so what? The D3s beats the "newer" D4 in a lot of situations...

For Canon I don't think its nearly as important to have the latest greatest camera in this section of the market, even if the new Nikon were slightly better I think they would be happy to leave it another year or two until the more natural end of the 1DX lifecycle to update.

Good point, Canon has the luxury of approaching it from a position of strength.  Either way though, (based on previous product cycle durations)...I see a 2015 development, or even very likely a replacement announcement for the 1DX, with units being widely available to everyone by spring or summer 2016, if not before.  I'd be more surprised if units are actually on sale before the end of 2015.  That might mean a development announcement (or even a reliable rumor of one)...this year in 2014.

The Rio summer Olympics, will surely not come before a 1DX replacement is not only set in concrete, but in full production. 

It need not have vastly more MP...anywhere from 20 to 26 (or perhaps slightly more if they would just bite their lip and include some in-camera sensor crop modes...for instance a 1.2x crop would be ideal...such as Nikon has done for going on a decade now).

The real and more pressing question for Canon, is when will the 5D4 be available?  2014 or 2015?  I would be surprised if it's before 2015, but it would speak well for Canon if that happened.  It would mean they are really focused on not only testing new technology, but perfecting it more quickly than they have been doing the past 5 years or so...at least in my opinion!
I don't get your remark about the 5D. It hasn't been around even two years and still has no real competition in the market.

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2014, 04:14:31 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #217 on: January 26, 2014, 01:26:38 PM »
Yepp. I think the Nikon D4s is no catch for the 1Dx, it's just closing the gap. It's just newer, so what? The D3s beats the "newer" D4 in a lot of situations...

For Canon I don't think its nearly as important to have the latest greatest camera in this section of the market, even if the new Nikon were slightly better I think they would be happy to leave it another year or two until the more natural end of the 1DX lifecycle to update.

Good point, Canon has the luxury of approaching it from a position of strength.  Either way though, (based on previous product cycle durations)...I see a 2015 development, or even very likely a replacement announcement for the 1DX, with units being widely available to everyone by spring or summer 2016, if not before.  I'd be more surprised if units are actually on sale before the end of 2015.  That might mean a development announcement (or even a reliable rumor of one)...this year in 2014.

The Rio summer Olympics, will surely not come before a 1DX replacement is not only set in concrete, but in full production. 

It need not have vastly more MP...anywhere from 20 to 26 (or perhaps slightly more if they would just bite their lip and include some in-camera sensor crop modes...for instance a 1.2x crop would be ideal...such as Nikon has done for going on a decade now).

The real and more pressing question for Canon, is when will the 5D4 be available?  2014 or 2015?  I would be surprised if it's before 2015, but it would speak well for Canon if that happened.  It would mean they are really focused on not only testing new technology, but perfecting it more quickly than they have been doing the past 5 years or so...at least in my opinion!
I don't get your remark about the 5D. It hasn't been around even two years and still has no real competition in the market.

Was thinking the same thing Re:5d4.  The 5d series seems to be following a similar upgrade path as the 1 series - so, if history repeats we'll see a spec list for the 1dx, followed by silence, followed by spec sheet for a 5d4 in late 2015, then the 5d4 will hit the shelves in the spring of 2016..if we see it in 2015 it will be at the tail end of 2015..

I for one would rather them wait till 2016 - if that means totally new sensor, new digic, better DR...more MP's aren't what I NEED, but, I wouldn't say no to that as long as more MP's don't gimp any of the current features and capabilities of the 5d3. 

either way, this is where I like that canon can do what they are doing from a strength position - they can hold steady, make the 5d4 and 1dx2 what it needs to be, not a rushed product that amazes on one end but falls short on many others...
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

CarlTN

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #218 on: January 27, 2014, 01:46:38 AM »
Yepp. I think the Nikon D4s is no catch for the 1Dx, it's just closing the gap. It's just newer, so what? The D3s beats the "newer" D4 in a lot of situations...

For Canon I don't think its nearly as important to have the latest greatest camera in this section of the market, even if the new Nikon were slightly better I think they would be happy to leave it another year or two until the more natural end of the 1DX lifecycle to update.

Good point, Canon has the luxury of approaching it from a position of strength.  Either way though, (based on previous product cycle durations)...I see a 2015 development, or even very likely a replacement announcement for the 1DX, with units being widely available to everyone by spring or summer 2016, if not before.  I'd be more surprised if units are actually on sale before the end of 2015.  That might mean a development announcement (or even a reliable rumor of one)...this year in 2014.

The Rio summer Olympics, will surely not come before a 1DX replacement is not only set in concrete, but in full production. 

It need not have vastly more MP...anywhere from 20 to 26 (or perhaps slightly more if they would just bite their lip and include some in-camera sensor crop modes...for instance a 1.2x crop would be ideal...such as Nikon has done for going on a decade now).

The real and more pressing question for Canon, is when will the 5D4 be available?  2014 or 2015?  I would be surprised if it's before 2015, but it would speak well for Canon if that happened.  It would mean they are really focused on not only testing new technology, but perfecting it more quickly than they have been doing the past 5 years or so...at least in my opinion!
I don't get your remark about the 5D. It hasn't been around even two years and still has no real competition in the market.

Was thinking the same thing Re:5d4.  The 5d series seems to be following a similar upgrade path as the 1 series - so, if history repeats we'll see a spec list for the 1dx, followed by silence, followed by spec sheet for a 5d4 in late 2015, then the 5d4 will hit the shelves in the spring of 2016..if we see it in 2015 it will be at the tail end of 2015..

I for one would rather them wait till 2016 - if that means totally new sensor, new digic, better DR...more MP's aren't what I NEED, but, I wouldn't say no to that as long as more MP's don't gimp any of the current features and capabilities of the 5d3. 

either way, this is where I like that canon can do what they are doing from a strength position - they can hold steady, make the 5d4 and 1dx2 what it needs to be, not a rushed product that amazes on one end but falls short on many others...

The 1DX was "introduced" before the 5D3, so I suppose a 1DX replacement might get released before a 5D4.  However, the 5D3 was delayed a bit longer than it should have been...likely because it got essentially the same AF sensor as the 1DX (but they wanted the 1DX to have it first...also there was the earthquake and nuclear meltdown...). 

Remember the 5D2 came out in 2008, where the 1D4 came out a year later, late 2009...yet got replaced by the 1DX first.  The first 5D was released in 2005, was it not?  That was a 3 year replacement cycle...

In my speculation, I feel that a 5D4 will not be getting some ground breaking AF sensor inherited from a 1DX2 (and thus might not need to be released afterward), so I was assuming a 5D3 replacement might happen before a 1DX replacement.

Anything is possible...it just seems to me the 5D3 might get replaced first this time...especially if Canon actually do introduce a new 1 series body soon, such as 2014.

Eldar

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #219 on: January 29, 2014, 06:29:25 AM »
FWIW, I saw an active photographer with a 1D-type body neatly anonymized in black tape, with a 400/2.8L IS II, covered in black lens coat neoprene during the Kitzbuhel downhill race. Fingers crossed!
More equipment than skills, but everything is used :)
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ewg963

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #220 on: January 29, 2014, 08:52:26 AM »
FWIW, I saw an active photographer with a 1D-type body neatly anonymized in black tape, with a 400/2.8L IS II, covered in black lens coat neoprene during the Kitzbuhel downhill race. Fingers crossed!
Wow ok that's postive...!!! It would be nice to see some of those shots too!!! :) :) :) :) :)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 07:38:09 AM by ewg963 »
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GMCPhotographics

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #221 on: January 29, 2014, 10:45:15 AM »
Yepp. I think the Nikon D4s is no catch for the 1Dx, it's just closing the gap. It's just newer, so what? The D3s beats the "newer" D4 in a lot of situations...

For Canon I don't think its nearly as important to have the latest greatest camera in this section of the market, even if the new Nikon were slightly better I think they would be happy to leave it another year or two until the more natural end of the 1DX lifecycle to update.

Good point, Canon has the luxury of approaching it from a position of strength.  Either way though, (based on previous product cycle durations)...I see a 2015 development, or even very likely a replacement announcement for the 1DX, with units being widely available to everyone by spring or summer 2016, if not before.  I'd be more surprised if units are actually on sale before the end of 2015.  That might mean a development announcement (or even a reliable rumor of one)...this year in 2014.

The Rio summer Olympics, will surely not come before a 1DX replacement is not only set in concrete, but in full production. 

It need not have vastly more MP...anywhere from 20 to 26 (or perhaps slightly more if they would just bite their lip and include some in-camera sensor crop modes...for instance a 1.2x crop would be ideal...such as Nikon has done for going on a decade now).

The real and more pressing question for Canon, is when will the 5D4 be available?  2014 or 2015?  I would be surprised if it's before 2015, but it would speak well for Canon if that happened.  It would mean they are really focused on not only testing new technology, but perfecting it more quickly than they have been doing the past 5 years or so...at least in my opinion!
I don't get your remark about the 5D. It hasn't been around even two years and still has no real competition in the market.

Was thinking the same thing Re:5d4.  The 5d series seems to be following a similar upgrade path as the 1 series - so, if history repeats we'll see a spec list for the 1dx, followed by silence, followed by spec sheet for a 5d4 in late 2015, then the 5d4 will hit the shelves in the spring of 2016..if we see it in 2015 it will be at the tail end of 2015..

I for one would rather them wait till 2016 - if that means totally new sensor, new digic, better DR...more MP's aren't what I NEED, but, I wouldn't say no to that as long as more MP's don't gimp any of the current features and capabilities of the 5d3. 

either way, this is where I like that canon can do what they are doing from a strength position - they can hold steady, make the 5d4 and 1dx2 what it needs to be, not a rushed product that amazes on one end but falls short on many others...

The 1DX was "introduced" before the 5D3, so I suppose a 1DX replacement might get released before a 5D4.  However, the 5D3 was delayed a bit longer than it should have been...likely because it got essentially the same AF sensor as the 1DX (but they wanted the 1DX to have it first...also there was the earthquake and nuclear meltdown...). 

Remember the 5D2 came out in 2008, where the 1D4 came out a year later, late 2009...yet got replaced by the 1DX first.  The first 5D was released in 2005, was it not?  That was a 3 year replacement cycle...

In my speculation, I feel that a 5D4 will not be getting some ground breaking AF sensor inherited from a 1DX2 (and thus might not need to be released afterward), so I was assuming a 5D3 replacement might happen before a 1DX replacement.

Anything is possible...it just seems to me the 5D3 might get replaced first this time...especially if Canon actually do introduce a new 1 series body soon, such as 2014.

The 1Dx doesn't need replacing yet. It's still as fresh as the day it was anounced. The 5DIII is in the same situation really, it has no direct rival. I think that Canon could easily build a high mega pixel camera around a 5DIII body and call it something like a 5Dx and I'm sure it'll sell and sell. There really is no need in putting this sensor into a 1D series camera body.

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #222 on: January 29, 2014, 03:58:50 PM »
But a camera isn't judged by IQ alone...it's just one feature. The 5DIII is a very rounded camera and probably the most versatile currently available. But there's a die hard group who only want the very top tier IQ, with the rest of the camera lacking...ie 5D / 5DII. 

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #222 on: January 29, 2014, 03:58:50 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #223 on: January 31, 2014, 05:10:36 PM »
The 5D 3 really is nothing more than a 5D 2 with - at long last - a decent af-system in it. Hardly any improvement in IQ and resolution. Blatant lack of connectivity (not even wifi which canon manages to put into any 200 dollar powershot). It should really have been called 5D 2N.

The 5D 3 is really dated in every respect.

By now i've lost interest in the 5d line and bulky dslrs. Just waiting until a really good ff milc comes to market. Af issues in mirrorless are getting ironed out. The fuji xt1 seems to be tracking moving subjects @ 8 fps. Soon enough decent af performance will also be available in ff-sensored mirrorless cams. Looking forward to it. Sony A8R could already be the real winner.


neuroanatomist

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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #224 on: January 31, 2014, 06:32:29 PM »
The 5D 3 really is nothing more than a 5D 2 with - at long last - a decent af-system in it. Hardly any improvement in IQ and resolution.

The 5DII delivered excellent IQ and resolution, the only real lacking features were AF performance and perhaps frame rate.  The 5DIII dramatically improved AF and also improved fps, weather sealing, etc.

The 5D 3 is really dated in every respect.

Sure, that's why it's selling so poorly, and all those 'modern' cameras in that class are outselling it.  Except...they're not.
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Re: Will Canon Answer the D4s? [CR2]
« Reply #224 on: January 31, 2014, 06:32:29 PM »