August 29, 2014, 08:18:49 PM

Author Topic: What is the problem with Canon  (Read 6417 times)

David Hull

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 05:40:30 PM »
To paraphrase James Carville:  "It's the sensors stupid!"  If Canon was sporting a Sony sensor we are not having this conversation.  A 5DIII with a Sony A7 sensor for $2,8000 would be something really, really special.  Canon needs to make.....or acquire......better sensors.  We can talk sames figures and long term strategy all day but Canon Cameras with Sony sensors would make it very, very hard for anybody else to compete
Except that a large share of the revenue garnered from sales of such a camera would have to pass through to Sony rather than remaining in the coffers of Canon.
In technology there is almost always a "buy vs build" decision that has to be made.  You are advocating that Canon should come down on the side of "buy" vis-à-vis sensors.  But unless you can show that this would lead to an overall increase in retained profits for Canon, you argument lacks substance.  It is more likely that Canon has determined that they can produce a "good enough" sensor in house, efficiently amortize the R&D costs across the entire corporation to design that sensor, and retain 100% of the revenue resulting from the sales.



" You are advocating that Canon should come down on the side of "buy" vis-à-vis sensors."
I am advocating no such thing.  What I said was : "Canon needs to make.....or acquire......better sensors."  I didn't come down on either side.  Canon trails Nikon and Sony in only one important category....sensors...Canons are not as good.....Like I said  "It's the sensors stupid!"   CLOSE THE GAP CANON!  as for what my engineering expertise is (Masters in Chemical Engineering) is not at all important.  I am speaking as a consumer.  Why I want is a Camera with a better sensor.  I like really, really , big prints.  The Sony A7R and the Nikon D800E are much better at doing that.  I like Canon, I have lots of Canon glass....CANON NEEDS BETTER SENSORS
Actually that isn't true -- Canon needs a better implementation of their sensor, the sensor is pretty good.  If you look at the measurements from sites like Sensorgen the 5DIII sensor has something on the order of 15 stops of DR.  And really, the only place where Canon really lags is in low ISO read noise (due to their back end electronics not their sensors).

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 05:40:30 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2014, 05:57:01 PM »
I usually kick it to 160 because of all this natural iso I really don't understand (I know... I should bother to read up).

I believe this has been shown to be false.  ISO 160 appears to have lower noise because it's really ISO 200 that is then digitally underexposed to get to an effective ISO of 160. This has the effect of suppressing noise, but clipping highlights and limiting DR.

EDIT: http://indigoverse.com/the-truth-about-native-iso-for-canon-dslrs/

Damn natives.  I'm just going to start shooting everything at 6400 :(
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100 f/2.8L->85mm f/1.8 USM->135L -> 8mm ->100L

jdramirez

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2014, 05:59:39 PM »
So back to 160. I should just start taking lsd so I can see all the pretty colors in my head

I usually kick it to 160 because of all this natural iso I really don't understand (I know... I should bother to read up).

I believe this has been shown to be false.  ISO 160 appears to have lower noise because it's really ISO 200 that is then digitally underexposed to get to an effective ISO of 160. This has the effect of suppressing noise, but clipping highlights and limiting DR.

EDIT: http://indigoverse.com/the-truth-about-native-iso-for-canon-dslrs/

Except that ISO 160 appears to have more DR than ISO 200, 320 more than 400, etc.   There are a couple of other threads on this that have been active within the past day or two.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:55:45 PM by jdramirez »
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100 f/2.8L->85mm f/1.8 USM->135L -> 8mm ->100L

chauncey

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2014, 06:17:07 PM »
If memory serves me correctly, I coughed up almost 8 grand for that Ds3 years ago and have amassed a plethora of glass since then...to much to jump ship, else I would have.

David Hull

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2014, 08:04:03 PM »
Perhaps they want to make sure everything works before the release it and there are no problems -- you know, things like AF that doesn't work right, AF that only works on one side of the image field, Oil spots etc.  Things like that.

Ouch !!!
Yea cheap shot, I know.  I would rather that they work extra hard to make sure it is well wrung out (whatever IT is) than release too soon -- not that I will probably be in the market for it (sounds expensive).

ME

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2014, 08:20:17 PM »
Canon's problem is they don't make products specifically to suit ME. 



You are correct, but I am for the most part happy with my Canon gear.  ;D
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dash2k8

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2014, 08:28:18 PM »
Encouraging progress and innovation is a good thing. Griping just for gripes sake is foolish. It's one thing to give Canon a push in the butt (thank you Sigma), it's another to hate on this brand because Nikon or Sony or someone else is announcing new stuff and Canon isn't. Do remember that it was Canon cameras running the last Olympics. If Canon was really that lousy, no amount of marketing money would help them become the official camera of the Olympics. And honestly, if anyone feels that Canon is lagging/not up to par/sucks/whatever, why not just switch brands instead of blowing off steam? Switching to another brand and killing Canon's sales will speak louder than anything we can post online.

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2014, 08:28:18 PM »

rpt

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2014, 08:38:24 PM »
Canon's problem is they don't make products specifically to suit ME. 



You are correct, but I am for the most part happy with my Canon gear.  ;D
Ha! Ha! Ha! Good one!

Good to see a sense of humour on this thread  :D

Rienzphotoz

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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2014, 01:51:24 AM »
Canon's problem is they don't make products specifically to suit ME. 
You are correct, but I am for the most part happy with my Canon gear.  ;D
Ha ha ha ... Good one  ;D
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Re: What is the problem with Canon
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2014, 01:51:24 AM »