November 26, 2014, 08:01:21 AM

Author Topic: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg  (Read 30628 times)

9VIII

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 09:59:19 PM »
sensor sensor sensor.  That's all y'all talk about.  Why is pixel density such a deal dealer?  I rarely use every pixel in an image and I presently complain about the files size of my raw images. 

I don't need a 7d, but if it were a solid upgrade over the 70d, I would think that would be satisfactory to a sufficient number of buyers.

In the abstract, sure everyone wants a body that is 30 megapixels 10 fps, usable iso of 6400, 4k video, dual card slots, touch screen, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and a hot Asian model with every purchase.

But in reality... being a bit better can be significantly better for certain individuals.

After the chat I've had in the AA thread, I'm pretty set on 64 Megapixels now. Nothing less will do.
Don't worry, Moore's law hasn't run out yet, and 10TB hard drives are in the works.
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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 09:59:19 PM »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2014, 09:14:58 AM »
I am hoping the 7D2 is to the 7D, as the 5D3 was to the 5D2 and is compelling enough to make me want to upgrade. I am specifically looking and hoping for a sizable improvements in DN, High ISO Performance and the 5D3 AF system or similar.

I am so disappointed with the 7d by today's standards that any improvement will be worth the upgrade.  Just show me where to sign...

The problem Canon has with the 7DII is that it will certainly rob sales from the 1Dx. If 10 fps @ 18mp with 61 point AF is true then it really will be a 1.6x cropped 1Dx. I suspect that Canon will leave the IQ much the same as the 70D, it's got to hold back on something for this camera.
Naturally we all want a camera with less video compromises (the 7D has a really strong AA filter), far better noise handling threashold and a DR to match the current Sony Exmore CMOS sensors. But I seriously doubt that Canon will invest in sensor tech for this camera and I think they will brin in the new tech for the 1Dx replacement or it's high MP cousin.

jrista

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2014, 10:36:42 AM »
I am hoping the 7D2 is to the 7D, as the 5D3 was to the 5D2 and is compelling enough to make me want to upgrade. I am specifically looking and hoping for a sizable improvements in DN, High ISO Performance and the 5D3 AF system or similar.

I am so disappointed with the 7d by today's standards that any improvement will be worth the upgrade.  Just show me where to sign...

The problem Canon has with the 7DII is that it will certainly rob sales from the 1Dx. If 10 fps @ 18mp with 61 point AF is true then it really will be a 1.6x cropped 1Dx. I suspect that Canon will leave the IQ much the same as the 70D, it's got to hold back on something for this camera.
Naturally we all want a camera with less video compromises (the 7D has a really strong AA filter), far better noise handling threashold and a DR to match the current Sony Exmore CMOS sensors. But I seriously doubt that Canon will invest in sensor tech for this camera and I think they will brin in the new tech for the 1Dx replacement or it's high MP cousin.

I dunno...if people have the dough for a 1D X, they will be getting a 1D X. There are so many other features of the 1D X that will trounce any variant of the 7D II, it's still worth the cash. For everyone else, well, they weren't going to be buying a 1D X in the first place due to cost, so the 7D II won't really be stealing anything...it would actually boost total sales for Canon well above any potential "conversion loss"...millions could buy the 7D II over the next few years, so even if Canon loses a few 1D X sales a year, it simply won't matter.

Regarding the AA filter...there have been patents and papers about electromagnetically attenuated AA filters that can be adjusted (either automatically, based on seen preview analysis or camera mode detection (still or video), or by a user controllable setting.) A user attenuated AA filter would be the ultimate solution, IMO. You can attenuate it down for say landscapes, and crank it up for video. Or simply tune the AA blur factor according to the detail levels in the scene...if you have a lot of high frequency detail, jack it up...if not, drop it to it's minium setting. That would make my day...hell, that would make my year, if Canon included something like that in one of their cameras.

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2014, 12:08:29 PM »
I really can't see any circumstance where the 7DII is going to rob sales from a 1Dx.

After reading numerous posts here on the limitations of sensor technology in general, I'm pretty well convinced that even under the best case possible, a brand new APS-C sensor isn't going to equal the current generation of full frame sensors. I expect to see some improvement and think it will be a different and better sensor than the 70D.

But, even with a better sensor, comparable frame rate to the 1Dx and comparable autofocus, it is still not going to be equal to the 1Dx. In addition to the significant sensor advantages of teh 1Dx, I seriously doubt the 7DII will have the integrated grip and bombproof build of the 1Dx.

Finally, I just don't believe companies worry that much about one of their own products "robbing" sales from another product. In the case of camera systems especially, I think they look at consumer behavior and know that ultimately they are going to get about the same amount of sales from a customer regardless of the pricing of individual products. Buying a less expensive body, just means a bigger investment in lenses, strobes and other accessories.

The real worry is keeping a customer from choosing another brand and that provides a much stronger incentive for Canon to offer as much as possible in it various models.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2014, 12:11:27 PM »
Don't worry, Moore's law hasn't run out yet, and 10TB hard drives are in the works.

HDDs are too slow.  I'll wait for the 10 TB SSDs to come out.  :P
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DanielW

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2014, 12:26:14 PM »
The real worry is keeping a customer from choosing another brand and that provides a much stronger incentive for Canon to offer as much as possible in it various models.

Exactly what I think. You impose too many restrictions and people will look for some other manufacturer who does not.

jrista

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2014, 03:40:25 PM »
Don't worry, Moore's law hasn't run out yet, and 10TB hard drives are in the works.

HDDs are too slow.  I'll wait for the 10 TB SSDs to come out.  :P

I've been amazed at the recent prices of larger SSDs. 500Gb SSDs hit as low as $320 last month, and 1Tb SSDs hit as low as $640. Kind of exciting, seeing the larger ones start to come down in price (especially when it still costs over $200 for a 200GB SSD, and $150 for a 128Gb SSD... O_o ). I wonder how long it will be before 2Tb SSD drives drop below the $1000 mark.

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2014, 03:40:25 PM »

ewg963

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2014, 08:47:50 AM »
I am hoping the 7D2 is to the 7D, as the 5D3 was to the 5D2 and is compelling enough to make me want to upgrade. I am specifically looking and hoping for a sizable improvements in DN, High ISO Performance and the 5D3 AF system or similar.
I am so disappointed with the 7d by today's standards that any improvement will be worth the upgrade.  Just show me where to sign...

The problem Canon has with the 7DII is that it will certainly rob sales from the 1Dx. If 10 fps @ 18mp with 61 point AF is true then it really will be a 1.6x cropped 1Dx. I suspect that Canon will leave the IQ much the same as the 70D, it's got to hold back on something for this camera.
Naturally we all want a camera with less video compromises (the 7D has a really strong AA filter), far better noise handling threashold and a DR to match the current Sony Exmore CMOS sensors. But I seriously doubt that Canon will invest in sensor tech for this camera and I think they will brin in the new tech for the 1Dx replacement or it's high MP cousin.
I don't think  the 7D II rob sales from the DX. I've been saving for the 1 DX for many months now and on the verge of the getting one. I did have a fleeting thought maybe I wait for the 7D II I can then purchase that along with the 5D Mark III. I'm thinking maybe I can have the best of the both worlds but I held that 1DX again and felt the solid build. There's no doubt I'm getting the DX. The 1 DX and 7DII will cater to two different markets IMHO...
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jdramirez

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2014, 09:08:24 AM »
I am hoping the 7D2 is to the 7D, as the 5D3 was to the 5D2 and is compelling enough to make me want to upgrade. I am specifically looking and hoping for a sizable improvements in DN, High ISO Performance and the 5D3 AF system or similar.
I am so disappointed with the 7d by today's standards that any improvement will be worth the upgrade.  Just show me where to sign...

The problem Canon has with the 7DII is that it will certainly rob sales from the 1Dx. If 10 fps @ 18mp with 61 point AF is true then it really will be a 1.6x cropped 1Dx. I suspect that Canon will leave the IQ much the same as the 70D, it's got to hold back on something for this camera.
Naturally we all want a camera with less video compromises (the 7D has a really strong AA filter), far better noise handling threashold and a DR to match the current Sony Exmore CMOS sensors. But I seriously doubt that Canon will invest in sensor tech for this camera and I think they will brin in the new tech for the 1Dx replacement or it's high MP cousin.
I don't think  the 7D II rob sales from the DX. I've been saving for the 1 DX for many months now and on the verge of the getting one. I did have a fleeting thought maybe I wait for the 7D II I can then purchase that along with the 5D Mark III. I'm thinking maybe I can have the best of the both worlds but I held that 1DX again and felt the solid build. There's no doubt I'm getting the DX. The 1 DX and 7DII will cater to two different markets IMHO...

I occasionally wonder if I will be hit with the 1dx bug.  My logic in the past has been... if you have the money and your lenses are really good, the logical step is to improve your body. 

But there are also times when I use my daughter's old xti and I think... this generations old body can get me wow photos too... so why do I have a $3000 body and by extension, why would I ever need an $8000 body.

And I know the answer... because I can't use the xti all the time with a tripod in ideal light.  But it does still bother me just a little. 

If you don't mind me asking, what does the 1dx bring to the table that a 5d mkiii can't provide?  I know the specs, but I'm just curious what you value to be worth the extra cash?

Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2014, 09:15:05 AM »
6800, not 8000...  I guess that means I haven't been paying attention to the price of something I can't afford...
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2014, 05:40:31 AM »
The biggest deal about pixel density is the depthness of cropping.

And pushing existing lenses beyond their capabilities...

bdunbar79

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2014, 11:16:56 AM »
What does the 1Dx offer over the 5D3?  Well, I suppose it's about what you are shooting.  I've shot with both a fair amount during sports for sure.  The 1Dx AF is more accurate and seems to be quicker.  If a player is running, during the burst of exposures, the player stays in focus, even while moving, that is, the AF can still track even during a burst of 8 frames.  The 5D3 did not have this luxury, and the frame rate wasn't nearly as much.  Swimming comes to mind, when during the butterfly, you want the swimmer at the top of the motion.  With the 1Dx's burst rate, this is easier to capture at the perfect time, vs. the 5D3.  Not to say it cannot be done, however.

Shutter durability is definitely a huge factor.  There are other things though.  In the 1Dx you can set min/max apertures/shutters/ISO's.  This allows you to use EC with auto ISO, and still select your shutter speed and aperture (or any combination).  Certainly not a feature in other series models.  I use a f/2.8 lens and set min ap to f/2.8 and max to f/1.0 in Tv mode. This locks the camera at f/2.8.  I then choose a shutter speed at say 1/500, and using CWA metering can use auto ISO and still set an EC value of +2/3.  So I'm effectively doing +2/3 EC in manual mode with auto ISO and every single shot is +2/3.  How cool!!  This can be very, very useful and can contribute to my lazy lifestyle!  Not the best in every situation, but certainly where light is low and even.

RAW files are also easier to clean up and edit.  Not a huge difference, but a huge difference at ISO 6400 for sure.  Shoot mRAW with each once at 6400 and see how much better the processing internally is for the 1Dx than the 5D3.  It's amazing.

It is worth the extra price over the 5D3, for me at least.
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jdramirez

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2014, 11:58:59 AM »
What does the 1Dx offer over the 5D3?  Well, I suppose it's about what you are shooting.  I've shot with both a fair amount during sports for sure.  The 1Dx AF is more accurate and seems to be quicker.  If a player is running, during the burst of exposures, the player stays in focus, even while moving, that is, the AF can still track even during a burst of 8 frames.  The 5D3 did not have this luxury, and the frame rate wasn't nearly as much.  Swimming comes to mind, when during the butterfly, you want the swimmer at the top of the motion.  With the 1Dx's burst rate, this is easier to capture at the perfect time, vs. the 5D3.  Not to say it cannot be done, however.

Shutter durability is definitely a huge factor.  There are other things though.  In the 1Dx you can set min/max apertures/shutters/ISO's.  This allows you to use EC with auto ISO, and still select your shutter speed and aperture (or any combination).  Certainly not a feature in other series models.  I use a f/2.8 lens and set min ap to f/2.8 and max to f/1.0 in Tv mode. This locks the camera at f/2.8.  I then choose a shutter speed at say 1/500, and using CWA metering can use auto ISO and still set an EC value of +2/3.  So I'm effectively doing +2/3 EC in manual mode with auto ISO and every single shot is +2/3.  How cool!!  This can be very, very useful and can contribute to my lazy lifestyle!  Not the best in every situation, but certainly where light is low and even.

RAW files are also easier to clean up and edit.  Not a huge difference, but a huge difference at ISO 6400 for sure.  Shoot mRAW with each once at 6400 and see how much better the processing internally is for the 1Dx than the 5D3.  It's amazing.

It is worth the extra price over the 5D3, for me at least.

I shoot in manual, but I can appreciate the set it and forget it functionality you describe.  I shoot sports as well and I won't argue that the 1dx's af system isn't better, but I often wonder if it is really that much better.  It would be like 2 people getting a 1600 on the sat's, back when that was the top score.  Sure one of those kids is probably smarter than the other, but both will get into an iv league school. 

Funny enough, but when I had my Canon xs I would spray and pray so much more than I do now.  What I do at the moment is time my shot, then hold it down for 4 or five extra shots after just incase...

I'd love a faster fps, but I'm too cheap to go down that road when my mkiii is more than sufficient for my needs. 

What I love about the 1dx is the option to meter of center and attach metering to a peripheral af point.... but like I said.... to cheap.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2014, 11:58:59 AM »

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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2014, 01:08:28 PM »
I agree.  An extra $3700 is a lot and is by no means a bad reason not to buy the 1Dx.  I do think yes, overall it is more enjoyable to use than a 5D3, but I'm not sure $3700 more enjoyable either.  The situation I described I meant to say that in cases where lighting was different, not even.  I was in a gym where ISO 3200 was required under the basket, but at center court as low as ISO 1600.  In that case the min/max aperture feature saved me, vs. having tons of over or under exposed shots to edit in post.  The only advantage in that case is that aperture and shutter didn't change, only ISO and at +2/3 EV always.  If it's even lighting, manual and leave it is the way to go.  I posted on here last fall (2012) where I was actually able to track the tennis ball itself with the 1Dx, and that really impressed me.  Why would you need to?  You wouldn't but it was just cool!
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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2014, 02:11:45 PM »
I am hoping the 7D2 is to the 7D, as the 5D3 was to the 5D2 and is compelling enough to make me want to upgrade. I am specifically looking and hoping for a sizable improvements in DN, High ISO Performance and the 5D3 AF system or similar.
I am so disappointed with the 7d by today's standards that any improvement will be worth the upgrade.  Just show me where to sign...

The problem Canon has with the 7DII is that it will certainly rob sales from the 1Dx. If 10 fps @ 18mp with 61 point AF is true then it really will be a 1.6x cropped 1Dx. I suspect that Canon will leave the IQ much the same as the 70D, it's got to hold back on something for this camera.
Naturally we all want a camera with less video compromises (the 7D has a really strong AA filter), far better noise handling threashold and a DR to match the current Sony Exmore CMOS sensors. But I seriously doubt that Canon will invest in sensor tech for this camera and I think they will brin in the new tech for the 1Dx replacement or it's high MP cousin.
I don't think  the 7D II rob sales from the DX. I've been saving for the 1 DX for many months now and on the verge of the getting one. I did have a fleeting thought maybe I wait for the 7D II I can then purchase that along with the 5D Mark III. I'm thinking maybe I can have the best of the both worlds but I held that 1DX again and felt the solid build. There's no doubt I'm getting the DX. The 1 DX and 7DII will cater to two different markets IMHO...
I agree.... there will be a few people who don't buy a 1DX because they like the 7D2 more.. but there will be a heck of a lot more that don't buy the 70D because they like the 7D2 better... net sales gain for Canon.. Plus, of those few who don't get the 1DX, how many end up spending the saved money on lenses?
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Re: 7D Mark II on Cameraegg
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2014, 02:11:45 PM »