October 24, 2014, 09:27:15 PM

Author Topic: Magic Lantern adds 1/3-1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.  (Read 31541 times)

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4826
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Breakthrough at Magic Lantern, imho this elevates it to a must-have and makes Canon look really stupid: They at last figured out what the digic registers having to do with iso are, and by fine-tuning them your camera now gets an additional 1/3-1/2 stop of dynamic range, no strings attached. Just use +1/3 stop of ec (ML also has ec in m mode, just like the new 1dx fw) and you're done.

This means that for example on 5d3, iso 800 with ML has more dynamic range than iso 100 with Canon :-> ... and at high iso you're getting 7% more dr which is nothing to sneeze at, esp. since it builds upon Canon's advantage vs. Nikon: d800@6400 = ~8.3 & 5d3@6400 = ~9.4 ev making good ol' Canon the superior sensor for low light high contrast shooting, esp. the newer 6d.

Code: [Select]
# 5D3
isos =      [ 100    200    400    800    1600   3200   6400  12800 ];
dr =        [ 10.989 10.928 10.799 10.594 10.153  9.521 8.584 7.778 ];
dr_tweak =  [ 11.371 11.334 11.239 11.028 10.598 10.017 9.131 8.360 ];

Read all about it here, test modules are about to be out, next coming to a nightly build near you! Here's the dev thread if you want to follow the development: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10111.msg97780#msg97780

If you feel exposure challenged, you can use the ettr module to automatically set the exposure so it covers exactly the dynamic range of the scene with optimum snr :-)

Edit: Updated 5d3 numbers & changed topic, keeping the same(!) iso value the general improvement is more like 1/3ev and not 1/2ev like first reported (it's wip, people!) because the ML iso trick lowers the nominal iso a bit.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 02:03:04 PM by Marsu42 »

canon rumors FORUM


vscd

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 184
  • 5DC
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 04:43:20 AM »
Now, please make it available for the 5DC, too! ;)
5DC, 24-85, 85 1.2L II, 80-200 2.8L, 100 2.8L IS, 14 2.8, 35 1.4, 75-300 IS, 40STM

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4826
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 04:45:38 AM »
Now, please make it availbale for the 5DC, too! ;)

The 5dc (or as the hardcore 5d folks would argue: 5d :-)) is currently unmaintained, meaning there's no one around with this camera, some coding skills and time on his/her hands at the same time :-o ... feel free to contribute, it's not such a big deal, but it needs someone to test the new stuff and search for some digic register locations now and then.

K13X5C

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 08:27:21 AM »
You gotta love Magic Lantern They're doing some good work and sharing it, too!

AtSea

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 11:23:07 AM »
Always excited to hear about DR improvements. I went to their thread and it's far too highly technical for me to understand.  I will wait for real-world photo examples  and comparisons before going through with installing ML on all my cards. The difference would have to be far from negligible for me to bite.

Don't get me wrong, love and respect the creativity and development work being done on their end, just haven't loved the interface and inherent risk, as slim as it may be.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 11:53:00 AM by AtSea »

cayenne

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1213
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 11:41:09 AM »
Any ideas on when this will be in at least beta for the 5D3....so that you don't have to set an irreversible boot flag on your camera, and have the slow start times for the camera?

I'm dying to try ML on my 5D3, but I'm not willing to set irreversible settings, or have my camera become slow to turn on or come out of sleep....

:(

cayenne

crazyrunner33

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 12:22:45 PM »
Any ideas on when this will be in at least beta for the 5D3....so that you don't have to set an irreversible boot flag on your camera, and have the slow start times for the camera?

I'm dying to try ML on my 5D3, but I'm not willing to set irreversible settings, or have my camera become slow to turn on or come out of sleep....

:(

cayenne

Number 1 rule for open source projects: Never ask for ETA.

With that said, Magic Lantern can be turned off or even removed without much effort. But I see no reason to turn it off, the only time the boots are slow is when using the card warmup feature which I find to be very valuable. I've been using their nightly builds and RAW video for broadcast work for over six months without any issue.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 12:22:45 PM »

Rockets95

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 12:31:32 PM »
This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway - is this for photo, video, or both?
7D, WFT-E5A, 70-200 F/2.8L IS II, 24-105 F/4.0L, 10-22 F/3.5-4.5, 580EX-II, Wife has: 5D2, 70-200 4.0L IS, 100 2.8L IS macro, 24-105 F/4.0L IS, 17-40 F/4.0L

cliffwang

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 491
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 12:46:28 PM »
Number 1 rule for open source projects: Never ask for ETA.

+1
Alex really does good job for the ML for 5D3.  I have used his ML for 5D3 for about 1 year, and glad to see the improvement every month.  I just cannot image how much effort he put on this project.

This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway - is this for photo, video, or both?

This is for both.  For me, ML add more valuable video feature on 5D3.  It make your 5D3 like a 5000+ camera.  Please check Magic Lantern website for more information.
http://www.magiclantern.fm/
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 12:50:49 PM by cliffwang »
Canon 5D3 | Samyang 14mm F/2.8 | Sigma 50mm F/1.4 | Tamron 24-70mm F/2.8 VC | Canon 70-200mm F/2.8 IS MK2 | Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro L | Canon Closed-up 500D | 430EX | Kenko 2x Teleplus Pro 300 | Manfrotto Tripod

Alver

  • SX60 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 02:24:03 PM »

Magic Lantern can be turned off or even removed without much effort.
[/quote]

Do you mean ML RAW for the 5D mkIII?! Can it really be completely removed so the camera starts without lag? Please describe how it is possible!
The impossibility of the boot flag reset (= warranty loss) ist the only thing that stops me and thousands other people from trying the ML RAW. So far I could not find any way to do it.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 02:39:33 PM by Alver »

leGreve

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 208
  • Full time photographer and film maker omnifilm.dk
    • View Profile
    • leGreve Photography
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2014, 03:13:06 PM »

The impossibility of the boot flag reset (= warranty loss) ist the only thing that stops me and thousands other people from trying the ML RAW. So far I could not find any way to do it.

We have got to kill that myth…

You will ONLY void the part of the warranty that has to do with the software and firmware of the camera.

Say fx, you install ML… and within two weeks, your accidentally break the LCD or a button comes off or what ever. Those things are still covered. It's impossible to void anything that has not directly to do with the things that ML changes.

Having said that…. I haven't had a single issue with ML on my 5D3. And since you keep ML in the SD card slot and record to the CF card slot, you can remove ML pretty easily… simply power off, remove SD card, remove battery, and you are back to the old Canon again.
5D III -  Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 ~ 24-70 2.8L II ~ 70-200 2.8L II IS USM ~ 100 2.8L IS USM Macro ~ 16-35 2.8L II ~ Canon Extender 2x III


Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4826
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 08:53:06 AM »
The impossibility of the boot flag reset (= warranty loss) ist the only thing that stops me and thousands other people from trying the ML RAW.

We have no way to verify that, but my personal feeling is that you're wrong here. I do hope and am confident the bootflag removal will also work on 5d3 sooner or later, but from what I read from other users on cameras that let you remove ML w/o any trace there are other issues beside that.

Often, you read FUD that ML is a "hack" and "unsafe", something might go wrong when installing it, it might interfere with normal camera operation. Once the bootflag removal is there, these arguments will pop up again, imho if you want 5d3 ml and are a "ML user type" nothing stops you from using it right now *unless* you are actually planing to sell the camera and fear the buyer complain about a 1sec boot delay. People that are just unsure and a bit uncomfortable about the whole ML thing won't change their mind anyway.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 08:53:06 AM »

leGreve

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 208
  • Full time photographer and film maker omnifilm.dk
    • View Profile
    • leGreve Photography
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 09:08:21 AM »
you can remove ML pretty easily… simply power off, remove SD card, remove battery, and you are back to the old Canon again.

Not with this build, not with 5D mk III, as far as I know:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9214.0
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5719.0
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5810.0
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6035.0
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7125.0

etc.

Yes with this build also…. ML is on the SD card… not on the camera. What is done to the camera that might be irreversible is the boot flag and the boot time. But who the heck cares really… if you need a 0.2 sec. wake up time, don't mess with ML, easy as that.

If you want awesome functionallity beyond what Canon was willing to give, including filming raw video, then get ML.

Follow the ML install instructions and put ML files on the SD card.

If you some day get tired of ML again and want the original camera, just download Canon firmware 2.3 instead, and that will remove everything except the boot flag.

Stop fearing this….. ML has really improved the 5D!

Here's  a couple of tests I did last year with raw:

https://vimeo.com/69840853

https://vimeo.com/70150221
5D III -  Zeiss Otus 55mm 1.4 ~ 24-70 2.8L II ~ 70-200 2.8L II IS USM ~ 100 2.8L IS USM Macro ~ 16-35 2.8L II ~ Canon Extender 2x III

tron

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1865
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 09:37:13 AM »
The impossibility of the boot flag reset (= warranty loss) ist the only thing that stops me and thousands other people from trying the ML RAW.

We have no way to verify that, but my personal feeling is that you're wrong here. I do hope and am confident the bootflag removal will also work on 5d3 sooner or later, but from what I read from other users on cameras that let you remove ML w/o any trace there are other issues beside that.

Often, you read FUD that ML is a "hack" and "unsafe", something might go wrong when installing it, it might interfere with normal camera operation. Once the bootflag removal is there, these arguments will pop up again, imho if you want 5d3 ml and are a "ML user type" nothing stops you from using it right now *unless* you are actually planing to sell the camera and fear the buyer complain about a 1sec boot delay. People that are just unsure and a bit uncomfortable about the whole ML thing won't change their mind anyway.
It is not only the boot delay, it is the wake up delay as well and this is immensely more frustrating as I had the opportunity to experience with my 5D2. But at least with 5DMk2 I can remove it on the fly and then install it again...

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Magic Lantern adds 1/2 stop of dynamic range - just like that.
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 09:37:13 AM »