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Author Topic: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release  (Read 50738 times)

awinphoto

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
I'm not quite sure what to think of the jump from the 1ds3 or the 1d4 to the 1dx.  Almost sounds a bit too much like to the old nikon D1x  While they didn't go right out and say it, it kinda sounds like a merging of the two lines however it could be an improved 1d4?  If it's the 1ds3 merging with the 1d4, i find it interesting indeed they dropped to 18mp... Their mantra was always bigger MP the better, but now 21 is too much?  Especially now that nikon has jumped all over the MP bandwagon supposedly?  It's like canon's marketing strategy is taking a page from nikons playbook and visa versa... I always thought it would make more sense to release the 5d3 first, but I guess I am wrong, but I hope to see it soon. 
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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »

kenraw

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2011, 10:24:40 AM »
This sounds like Canon have read my thoughts and made my perfect camera......how do I pre order? waiting till March is going to be torture to try one of these beasts out!

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2011, 10:25:19 AM »
61 focus points and all of them crowded together in the centre of the frame!  What's the point in that?  They could have used the 19 point of the 7D and had similar results. Is there anyone here prepared to admit that the only place they choose to focus is in the centre of the frame?  Why not spread the focus points so they have a broader coverage which makes them a lot more usual in the real world.

I'm no expert, but isn't this limitation a pure technical one? That is there is too poor sharpness, or too steep angle of incoming light or something far to the sides so it is really not technically feasible to do? That is full coverage is asking for the impossible?

Right and wrong.  There are technical limitations on the spread of the AF points - at best, they can only occupy the middle area of the frame, because of simple geometry and optics. In a nutshell, there are three reasons:

  • Limitations on the size of the secondary mirror.  Light for AF passes through the semi-transparent part of the main mirror (most is reflected up to the viewfinder), then is reflected off the secondary mirror down to the AF sensor.  There is limited space behind the main mirror, based on the necessary geometry (i.e. the main mirror has to be at a 45° angle to the incoming light, and the secondary mirror has to be behind the main mirror and at an angle of 90° to the main mirror, so it's length is limited by the distance between the main mirror and the image sensor).
  • Distortion.  With many lenses, the edges of the frame are subject to distortion (barrel/pincushion), and that reduces the accuracy of phase detect AF.
  • Vingetting.  The AF system needs a certain amount of light to work.  Almost all lenses vignette to some degree, meaning there might not be enough light at the edges of the frame.  For example, the EF 17-40mm f/4L has >2 stops of vignetting wide open at the wide end - that means at the edges of the frame, you're below f/5.6 and AF sensors would not heve enough light to operate.

It's worth noting that none of these limitations apply to contrast detect AF, so using LiveView you can autofocus right out to the edge of the frame.

Regarding using the 19 point AF of the 7D, one of the advantages of a denser array of points is improved AI Servo AF tracking.

Canon states that the 1D X has "expanded AF coverage area," but they don't say what that's relative to - could be expanded relative to the 1Ds III or the 1D IV. 

I have a PS file with the focusing screens of all the xD bodies scaled and superimposed in layers.  When they are all scaled relative to the frame size / rule of thirds grid, the 1D IV is the clear winner for AF spread.  The 7D comes close, then the 1DsIII, with the 5DII at the bottom,  I added the 1D X AF layout to this, and in terms of relative coverage, it slots in between the 1D IV (still the best) and the 1DsIII.  I suppose Canon is technically correct - the 1D X AF coverage area is expanded from the 1DsIII, and since the absolute area is larger than the 1D IV (smaller sensor means smaller AF sensor), the 1D X is bigger than both. 

The attached images show superimpositions of 1D X with 1DsIII and 1D IV AF points.  As you can see, in the first comparison (1D X with 1DsIII) the rows of AF points at the sides extend a full point past where the 1DsIII stops, and the top-bottom extent is the same; the 1DsIII's coverage extends beyond the 1D X at the 'corners' (45°, 135°, 225°, 315°).  Comparing the 1D X to the 1D IV, they have the same lateral extent, although the 1D X has a whole vertical row at the edges vs. a single point, but the 1D IV has a full extra row at top and bottom, including something that the 1D X lacks - AF points that sit right on the rule-of-thirds intersections. 

The bottom line is that while the 1D X's AF system falls a little short of the 1D IV in terms of relative coverage, it's overall an improved system.  Previous bodies had only the center AF point as a high-precsion point with f/2.8 lenses, the 1D X has a row of 5 such points.  More importantly, cross-type points are much better than singe-orientation points.  For the 1D IV and 1DsIII, you needed an f/2.8 or faster lens to get cross-type points active at all but the center AF point, else they were single-orientation only.  The 1D X has 21 central points that are cross-type with f/5.6 lenses, and two 10-point clusters on either side that are cross-type with f/4 or faster.

To clarify the overall number of cross-type points by lens speed and camera body, see the summary table below (just edited to reflect the specs on the Canon USA website).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 11:59:10 AM by neuroanatomist »
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keithfullermusic

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #108 on: October 18, 2011, 10:30:25 AM »
I am really disappointed, I am under the impression that the Canon new policy is only cost driven with huge support of marketing and shareholder pressure-no passion in that activity. But of course they state that that's a revolution, even if it's kind of little step back in my opinion. If 1dx would be a d3s competitor it will be acceptable and OK for me but....it's a "camera for every purpose" which translates for me as a camera without purpose and no specialisation. Sports,wedding and studiohmmm...strange like car which is aimed to win a professional race and provide great comfort on family trip, it's not possible. I recently switched to canon from nikon  and today i think I made bad decision. Bigger single sensors-it seems for me it makes photos less sharp-I prefer a nikon strategy with no aa filter in d800.  21 mb in 5d2 and 18 in 1dx  also for studio purpose- does not work for me. In general the idea of connecting 1ds and 1d is stupid and only cost driven, probably based on huge losses made by tragic event in production facilities (earthquakes and floods). Where is revolution-in 12 FPS? It's only speeding up processors and memory, no revolution in sensor itself. It's PR and child of marketing camera. Canon has just cut its R&D figures I think.

You're just now realizing that Canon is driven by profit and shareholders?  Really?  That is the ONLY thing that drives corporations.  Sorry to break your fairy tale world dude, but that's just how it is.
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keithfullermusic

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2011, 10:38:52 AM »
Do people really want 30 megapixel cameras? What for? Your hard drive will just fill up twice as quick. A noise free clean 18 megapixel photograph could be upsized if that was really necessary. All I need to do now is decide on whether or not to save for one of these or wait for a 6D thingie. In camera multi exposure technology is exciting.

I don't want a 30MP picture.  I want to be able to crop a 30MP picture as much as needed and still be able to blow it up as large as I need to.  And hard drive space is nothing.  You can go get 8TB of space for $300 dollars. So if all others factors are equal I will always take the large MP count.

Just zoom in.  Compose your shot better.  Learn to take pictures.  How often do you crop?  If a lot, then buy a zoom lens dude.
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Justin

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2011, 10:40:18 AM »
Canon has made a drastic change in philosophy. A full 180.

I've read all the comments closely and find myself in agreement with most folks. I've reached the conculsion that  this is a camera that tries to peg the aggregate needs of PJs and more than anything. It is not a camera to necessarily flaunt the tech at Canon. It is not a camera to actually meet the needs of all working professionals (despite what the press releases may say), studio and landscape professionals really need not apply (and the factthat Canon are reducing moire is like nails on the chalkboard, since most likely this means a stronger, not weaker AA filter, damn!). Without, and this is key, without another entry in the Canon lineup, Canon appears content to let Phase, Mamiya, Hassy, Pentax and ever more likely, Nikon have those shooters.

Now if there are more yet undisclosed entries in the Canon lineup (impossible to imagine there not being, but hardly a sure thing given this odd overall direction in resolution terms) then we can speculate that the 5D becomes the high mega pixel, high dr camera for studio and landscape professionals. The problem with this scenario is that this type of camera shouldn't be populated with cheap tech. These shooters need fast accurate AF, low noise, and low light capabilities just liek the PJs. All this suggests it shouldn't be a $2500 camera.

What about video? The 5D2 was way ahead of its time, but GH2 hacks, for example, are way out in front now on what the 5D2 can provide. Will the 5D successor be a video monster too? Or just mirror the incremental upgrades in spec that the 1Dx has? Or will we get an entirely different DSLR, or no DSLR to fill this need?

And while many have derided the fellow (several now I'm sure) who claimed he is jumping ship to Nikon (presumably based on the FF D700 successor rumor), you haven't given him the beneift of the doubt. He senses Canon has changed direction, and not necessarily in a way that anyone expected.

Finally, here's where I will wax controversial. Without revealing a fuller roadmap, Canon is causing an incredible amount of confusion and potentially paralyzing many professionals. For example, and this is what is going through a lot of people's heads: What if the new "studio/landscape" camera adopts the same philosophy, or the same sensor as the 1Dx? Or, what if the video tech so many have come to rely on remains mostly stagnate like it has with the 1Dx spec? These two segments of pros and enthusisats make up a huge swath of Canon users. Prior to today, they had no idea of what Canon would provide for them in the future; all they had to go on were past Canon decisions manifested in current Canon designs. Now it's different. Canon has signaled a very different product in the 1Dx.

Where does that leave the rest of us?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 11:35:01 AM by Justin »

sb

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2011, 10:43:20 AM »
Bye bye Canon, hello Nikon.

You won't be seeing me here anymore, good luck with new Prosumer 18mp camera kids, and keep an eye on EBay, all my lenses etc will be there soon.

LOL Sorry, you'll just have to learn to frame your shots properly to begin with, instead of relying on cropping a 50MP file. Or yes, you can switch to Nikon and work with 12MP out of spite LOLOL Priceless

Thank you Canon for focusing on those will actually be using this camera. Let Sony worry about consumers.

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2011, 10:43:20 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2011, 11:03:16 AM »
Bye bye Canon, hello Nikon.

You won't be seeing me here anymore, good luck with new Prosumer 18mp camera kids, and keep an eye on EBay, all my lenses etc will be there soon.

LOL Sorry, you'll just have to learn to frame your shots properly to begin with, instead of relying on cropping a 50MP file. Or yes, you can switch to Nikon and work with 12MP out of spite LOLOL Priceless

I suspect macfly is referring to the rumored 36 MP D800.  If you do a little digging into macfly instead of bashing him (which I admit, I was guilty of in the past), you'll find he's a pro with an impressive portfolio, and often shoots with medium format bodies in addition to dSLRs.  He appears to have a real need for higher resolution for print ads (thus the MF cameras), and was clearly hoping for a higher MP body from Canon, from a professional perspective.

Having said that, for me, 18 MP is just fine...
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ippikiokami

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2011, 11:06:00 AM »
Do people really want 30 megapixel cameras? What for? Your hard drive will just fill up twice as quick. A noise free clean 18 megapixel photograph could be upsized if that was really necessary. All I need to do now is decide on whether or not to save for one of these or wait for a 6D thingie. In camera multi exposure technology is exciting.

I don't want a 30MP picture.  I want to be able to crop a 30MP picture as much as needed and still be able to blow it up as large as I need to.  And hard drive space is nothing.  You can go get 8TB of space for $300 dollars. So if all others factors are equal I will always take the large MP count.

Just zoom in.  Compose your shot better.  Learn to take pictures.  How often do you crop?  If a lot, then buy a zoom lens dude.

Agreed... And not just how often.. How much do you crop that 18mp wouldn't be enough?  At a certain point you're just throwing out the whole point of the original composition of the picture.

ippikiokami

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2011, 11:09:07 AM »
Bye bye Canon, hello Nikon.

You won't be seeing me here anymore, good luck with new Prosumer 18mp camera kids, and keep an eye on EBay, all my lenses etc will be there soon.

any link to your lenses you are dumping? :)

Do you think Canon won't have a high MP camera at all? D800 isn't D3 level in body after all. So why can't the 5D III move up in MP

jeremymerriam

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2011, 11:13:15 AM »
Call me weird if you want to but this replacement for the 1D sports/photojournalist body does nothing for me.

To read that the 1Ds 111 has been discontinued is a shock. For a long time I had been planning to buy the high MP, high quality 1Ds replacement, but I've got no interest in anything this body is offering. Its gone in entirely the wrong direction for my personal photographic interests.

I cannot be alone? Yes, it seems that video, high fps, high ISO etc are what many had wanted and they are the lucky ones but where should those like me look in future?

I do still-life work and portraits.  I plan to invest in the next generation digitalbacks that go for around 8-9k.  I was hoping to see better color profiles and DR in this camera, but for 7k for something that doesn't give me what I need, I am done buying Canon equipment.  My 5D 6 years later still does the jobs it needs to do for smaller budget jobs. 

awinphoto

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #116 on: October 18, 2011, 11:13:45 AM »
Where does that leave the rest of us?

I'm kinda torn about this camera... on one hand, it's a camera most everyone has been clamoring for... a low MP full frame high FPS camera with a pro grade AF and a metering system as sophisticated as the nikons matrix system... Well, you cant say canon didn't listen to those people, you got what you asked for.  While this camera, in some instances, to me lacks the wow factor, I also think... well what else do you expect this camera to do (that it cant do with or without an accessory?  It appears they really beefed up the "camera" part of the camera while keeping the video part solid for most purposes... No it doesn't have the 4K the red does, no it isn't 24 MP like nikons offerings, yes, there are sacrifices here and there, but it is a solid camera on it's own.  I think the confusion is not knowing where the canon roadmap is going... first they bushwhacked the xxd line, then the juggernaut 7D which is still a debate where it sits, if it's pro or not pro, and yada yada yada... Once again Canon appears to be deviating from roadmap we all knew and loved and to some extent, somewhat expected to happen... this is just one of those in transitions... I doubt Canon will hold a formal press conference and fully explain what they are doing, but I think the writing is on the wall. 

I'm not sure so much how much this is for photojournalists as it is meant to be a "go-to" camera for pros... It appears to be a great camera for wedding photogs, low light junkies, and even sports photographers (high FPS)... While likely this camera will debut outside my budget range, I hope the new 5D series and whatever cameras they announce in the future will also impress. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Flake

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #117 on: October 18, 2011, 11:13:49 AM »
Two twined customisable buttons next to the lens mount, they're certainly new, but I wonder what on earth I'd use them for

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #117 on: October 18, 2011, 11:13:49 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #118 on: October 18, 2011, 11:15:11 AM »
Just zoom in.  Compose your shot better.  Learn to take pictures.  How often do you crop?  If a lot, then buy a zoom lens dude.

Agreed... And not just how often.. How much do you crop that 18mp wouldn't be enough?  At a certain point you're just throwing out the whole point of the original composition of the picture.

There's a reason why the 1D series uses a 1.3x crop sensor - for sports/wildlife, it's often important to get more pixels on target.  To do that, you have three choices - a cropped sensor, a higher pixel density, or a longer lens.  Moving from the 1D IV to the 1D X, Canon has eliminated the first two possibilities.  That means to overcome the 'loss' of the 1.3x crop, 1D IV shooters will need to get longer lenses for equivalent framing.  So, Canon is advertising out of both sides of their mouths, so to speak.  They've released new supertele lenses, touting the weight advantage - e.g., "The 300/2.8 II is 8% lighter than it's predecessor."  The problem is, to get the same framing you had on your 1D IV with the new 1D X, you need a 400mm f/2.8 instead, and even though the Mk II version of that lens 28% lighter than it's own predecessor, it's still 50% heavier than the 300/2.8 MkI, and a whopping 64% heavier than the 300/2.8 II. 
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Justin

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2011, 11:20:32 AM »
Exactly my point. Canon's roadmap is all banged up. For those of us including macfly with thousands if not tens of thousands invested in glass this matters incredibly.

I think what strikes me as most disappointing is that this camera should have appeared two years ago. Whether or not Canon could have pulled that off is another story. It feels like an anachronism next to the Nikon D3x, right down to the naming convention. Given that what we know about the Canon lineup and that the one series is the flagship, what does that say about the rest of the roadmap?

Where does that leave the rest of us?

I'm kinda torn about this camera... on one hand, it's a camera most everyone has been clamoring for... a low MP full frame high FPS camera with a pro grade AF and a metering system as sophisticated as the nikons matrix system... Well, you cant say canon didn't listen to those people, you got what you asked for.  While this camera, in some instances, to me lacks the wow factor, I also think... well what else do you expect this camera to do (that it cant do with or without an accessory?  It appears they really beefed up the "camera" part of the camera while keeping the video part solid for most purposes... No it doesn't have the 4K the red does, no it isn't 24 MP like nikons offerings, yes, there are sacrifices here and there, but it is a solid camera on it's own.  I think the confusion is not knowing where the canon roadmap is going... first they bushwhacked the xxd line, then the juggernaut 7D which is still a debate where it sits, if it's pro or not pro, and yada yada yada... Once again Canon appears to be deviating from roadmap we all knew and loved and to some extent, somewhat expected to happen... this is just one of those in transitions... I doubt Canon will hold a formal press conference and fully explain what they are doing, but I think the writing is on the wall. 

I'm not sure so much how much this is for photojournalists as it is meant to be a "go-to" camera for pros... It appears to be a great camera for wedding photogs, low light junkies, and even sports photographers (high FPS)... While likely this camera will debut outside my budget range, I hope the new 5D series and whatever cameras they announce in the future will also impress.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 11:24:29 AM by Justin »

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Re: EOS-1D X Canon USA Press Release
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2011, 11:20:32 AM »