August 23, 2014, 06:01:42 AM

Author Topic: Magic Lantern increases Canon EOS 5D Mark III dynamic range  (Read 12443 times)

crazyrunner33

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 12:39:51 PM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

1) It is not difficult to install Magic Lantern if you can follow the instructions. A simple Google search will show you a lot of tutorials, or you can go to EOSHD.com and buy the 5D Mark III ML RAW guide which will show you how to install and use ML. ML is easy to use, it's simple, but there are a lot of features that give you plenty of room to play around or use as tools.

2) The Canon OS is always running, but you can have a clean boot without ML by holding "SET" while starting the camera.

3) EOSHD.com if you want to pay for it or search, there are a lot of tutorials out there.

4) I have not heard of anyone destroying or bricking their camera as a result of ML, but you can search on Google to see for yourself. It is possible to have issues with some of the builds, but nothing that will break the camera. I use the nightly builds and I always test a build for 2-3 days before taking it out on a paid shoot. I only had one instance where ML wouldn't boot and the camera hung up, but it was related to the memory card. I put a different card in and had to rely on H.264 for the day.

Don Haines

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 12:40:48 PM »
This is only interesting if you shoot at higher ISO settings.  :-\
This is only interesting if you like high dynamic range   :P

Personally, I hate it when the specs of a camera are improved. I think we should go back to 320x200 resolution in 256 colours..... <SARCASM>

(and yes, I do realize that the two quotes were also sarcasm)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 12:42:23 PM by Don Haines »
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gbchriste

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2014, 12:47:03 PM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

Here's a quote directly from the ML web site:

Is it safe?

No. Magic Lantern was created by reverse engineering an undocumented system that controls hardware. Therefore, we can't be certain that it's 100% safe.

Magic Lantern does not replace Canon code (which is stored in ROM), but it does change the settings (which are saved to a non-volatile memory). If Magic Lantern would set incorrect values for certain settings, this may cause the camera not to boot (even without ML).


I'm sure there are a lot of people that successfully use ML and find the benefits worth whatever risks there may be.  Personally, I would never load what amounts to 3rd party hack on to a $3000+ device, no matter how well regarded.

cayenne

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 12:58:18 PM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

Be cautioned if you have a 5D3.

ML is still very alpha for the Canon 5D3.

1. If you install Magic Lantern on your 5D3, you will set a firmware bootflag on the camera, that is NOT removable. At this time, it is a permanent change to your camera
2. It seems associated with this flag, that the boot times and wake up times can be significantly increased on your camera, I'm hearing up to like 2-3 seconds I believe. This is a deal breaker for some folks. This does NOT seem to be something that you can reverse.

The problems I mentioned above, will remain on your 5D Mark III even if you remove the Magic Lantern software. So, please be advised.

That being said, I've been following ML forums and all things about them and I'm HUGELY impressed. I really, really hope they can overcome these 2x issues with the 5D3 so I can feel comfortable with using ML on my camera. I'm anxious to start shooting RAW video with my 5D3...and to explore all these other cool options with stills photography.

But at this time, since I have only one 5D3, I am holding off putting ML on my camera.

Caveat Emptor as they say.

HTH,

cayenne

Midphase

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2014, 01:22:09 PM »
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. http://www.magiclantern.fm
4. No

RGomezPhotos

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2014, 02:41:37 PM »
So cool. Less and less reason to go with Medium Format. Canon's next couple of flagships have to be better than this dual-iso trick...
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CarlTN

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2014, 02:43:57 PM »
This is only interesting if you shoot at higher ISO settings.  :-\
So start shooting at high ISO and you too can get excited  ;D

Haha, good advice!

I don't really understand what all the fuss is about.  It's just a 5D3, after all...:P!

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2014, 03:07:30 PM »
Doesn't this still cut resolution by half in shadows and highlights and create other artifacts though?

Although I guess it might still be well worth it at times so long as the artifact stuff has been solved since I last looked in.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 03:09:15 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 03:16:25 PM »
OK, having read the article linked to now it seems like this is a new thing. It's not that dramatic but certainly nice and it sounds like they found a way to unlock a true extra 1/2 stop of DR for the 5D3, not bad at high ISO since that might bring it half way to the 1DX/D4/6D at high iso (and maybe boost the 6D a little past all of them for high iso DR?). That is pretty cool. It's weird Canon would have left an easy, true, universal 1/2 stop out there, but then again they sure left a ridiculous amount of 5D3 video capability locked up (although that could be more easily explained by marketing, this not so much).

So it looks like maybe you suddenly get 1/2 stop more DR at all ISO. Nice. Still a far cry from Exmor and such but hey a free 1/2 stop is cool.

The whole 15stop thing though does have some compromises though and that's kind of a different thing, if you are willing to live with 1/2 the detail in dark and bright parts and potential artifact issues it gets you to exmor certainy, but in a bit of a hacked, not quite really sorta way I think.

ksagomonyants

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 03:39:15 PM »
Conspiracy theories abound, but I'm not one normally to believe them.

So with that said: what's the catch? Why doesn't Canon implement this natively in their firmware? There must be some technical reason Canon decided NOT to do this?

I think it's just a marketing decision. Canon gives its customers better features in new products but gradually. Why would it give us better DR in 5diii if it could do that in 5div? Same thing I believe happened with the AF system in 5dii, when it was deliberately made imperfect to increase sales of 5diii once it's released.

Etienne

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 04:02:18 PM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

Be cautioned if you have a 5D3.

ML is still very alpha for the Canon 5D3.

1. If you install Magic Lantern on your 5D3, you will set a firmware bootflag on the camera, that is NOT removable. At this time, it is a permanent change to your camera
2. It seems associated with this flag, that the boot times and wake up times can be significantly increased on your camera, I'm hearing up to like 2-3 seconds I believe. This is a deal breaker for some folks. This does NOT seem to be something that you can reverse.

The problems I mentioned above, will remain on your 5D Mark III even if you remove the Magic Lantern software. So, please be advised.

That being said, I've been following ML forums and all things about them and I'm HUGELY impressed. I really, really hope they can overcome these 2x issues with the 5D3 so I can feel comfortable with using ML on my camera. I'm anxious to start shooting RAW video with my 5D3...and to explore all these other cool options with stills photography.

But at this time, since I have only one 5D3, I am holding off putting ML on my camera.

Caveat Emptor as they say.

HTH,

cayenne

These are good points.

I've been waiting for a beta version, and the ability to reset the boot flag. It's a long wait, and I'm hoping these guys get there while the 5DIII is still a hot camera

hiZis

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 04:38:22 PM »
Does anyone have some comparison shots with and without this magical dynamic range boost? :P Heard of it long time ago, but never seen.

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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2014, 10:27:39 PM »
Conspiracy theories abound, but I'm not one normally to believe them.

So with that said: what's the catch? Why doesn't Canon implement this natively in their firmware? There must be some technical reason Canon decided NOT to do this?

I think it's just a marketing decision. Canon gives its customers better features in new products but gradually. Why would it give us better DR in 5diii if it could do that in 5div? Same thing I believe happened with the AF system in 5dii, when it was deliberately made imperfect to increase sales of 5diii once it's released.

I don't think that makes sense in this case though. (as far as the video crippling, absolutely that was marketing, but I just don't see what even marketing could see to gain from holding back 1/2 stop DR, that would still leave plenty of room to pop out a 5D4 with exmor like DR at low ISO and they were not afraid to pop a 6D out there just a little while after the 5D3 that had more than 1/2 stop DR than the 5D3 at high at least)

jrista

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2014, 10:50:56 PM »
OK, having read the article linked to now it seems like this is a new thing. It's not that dramatic but certainly nice and it sounds like they found a way to unlock a true extra 1/2 stop of DR for the 5D3, not bad at high ISO since that might bring it half way to the 1DX/D4/6D at high iso (and maybe boost the 6D a little past all of them for high iso DR?). That is pretty cool. It's weird Canon would have left an easy, true, universal 1/2 stop out there, but then again they sure left a ridiculous amount of 5D3 video capability locked up (although that could be more easily explained by marketing, this not so much).

So it looks like maybe you suddenly get 1/2 stop more DR at all ISO. Nice. Still a far cry from Exmor and such but hey a free 1/2 stop is cool.

The whole 15stop thing though does have some compromises though and that's kind of a different thing, if you are willing to live with 1/2 the detail in dark and bright parts and potential artifact issues it gets you to exmor certainy, but in a bit of a hacked, not quite really sorta way I think.

I would actually call a consistent 1/2 stop at high ISO to be very relevant. The differences between brands at high ISO is usually a small fraction of a stop...gaining a HALF a stop at high ISO is absolutely relevant, and very amazing! That unquestionably puts the 5D III in the same high ISO league as the 1D X, D4, D3s, etc. all of which have 9.4-9.5 stops of DR at ISO 6400. If this is brought to the 6D, it would become the supreme being at high ISO, with over 10 stops of DR at ISO 6400!! That is nothing short of phenomenal.

Don't downplay this so much. You should really give credit where credit is due.

The only thing I think needs to be addressed is the 15 stops bit. Because of the 14-bit ADC, it would be limited to 14 stops...however since low ISO has a flattened shoulder, technically speaking this still doesn't help Canon break the 12 stop barrier anyway. I wonder if ML will figure out how to mitigate downstream secondary amplifier and ADC read noise at some point in the future. If they can recover 2 stops of DR at ISO 100 on the 5D III...wow, they own me forever. :P  :o  ;D
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